Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday March 6, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2020, 02:42 PM   #26
Justanotherhonda
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 199190
Join Date: Jan 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmartynyuk View Post
Nice, that's the one with the gtx3584rs right? What part number for the callies rod? What size copper wire and protrusion height? Stepped deck?

That's the one! Thanks. I'm not sure on the part number of the rod or the protrusion height, I guess I could probably contact AR Fab to get that but I didn't receive any of that information with the car

It's been solid so far but with a rising amount of potassium and sodium in the oil sample. I'm hoping it was contamination from the CSF radiator w/ built in oil cooler I was running, as the levels haven't reached critical yet and the engine shows no other signs of issues. I just installed an external oil cooler to eliminate the radiator as the source. Fingers crossed
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Justanotherhonda; 08-11-2020 at 02:48 PM.
Justanotherhonda is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-11-2020, 03:33 PM   #27
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justanotherhonda View Post
That's the one! Thanks. I'm not sure on the part number of the rod or the protrusion height, I guess I could probably contact AR Fab to get that but I didn't receive any of that information with the car

It's been solid so far but with a rising amount of potassium and sodium in the oil sample. I'm hoping it was contamination from the CSF radiator w/ built in oil cooler I was running, as the levels haven't reached critical yet and the engine shows no other signs of issues. I just installed an external oil cooler to eliminate the radiator as the source. Fingers crossed
Oh I see, I was under the impression you put it together yourself. Yeah hopefully not the bearings.
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2020, 02:51 AM   #28
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Gonna bump this one. Anyone care to share what head gaskets you guys are using for your high hp sleeved builds? Care to share protrusion height of your orings and what kinda wire for the orings?
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #29
boostaroo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 507615
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmartynyuk View Post
Gonna bump this one. Anyone care to share what head gaskets you guys are using for your high hp sleeved builds? Care to share protrusion height of your orings and what kinda wire for the orings?
Darton Sleeves @99.75 Bore
OEM EJ257 HG
Dead-Soft Pure Copper Wire O'Rings @0.028" > .012"x.024" deck groove.
Car made a little under 500whp

Just tore it down to rebuild after a dropped sleeve. I'm changing up the HG/O'Ring setup a bit this time though.

Darton Sleeves @99.75mm Bore
Tomei 1.2mm EJ25 Head Gasket
Soft-Annealed SS Wire O'Rings @0.041" > .030"x.038" deck groove.
Target of 650+whp

Last edited by boostaroo; 11-13-2020 at 05:01 PM.
boostaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2020, 03:38 PM   #30
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostaroo View Post
Darton Sleeves @99.75
Tomei 1.2mm HG
.028" Copper Wire O'Rings in a .012"x.024" groove.
Sincerely appreciate your input. How long has it held up? How much power? Also what head studs?
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2020, 01:26 AM   #31
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86 E85 Kel272s Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostaroo View Post
Darton Sleeves @99.75 Bore
OEM EJ257 HG
Dead-Soft Pure Copper Wire O'Rings @0.028" > .012"x.024" deck groove.
Car made a little under 500whp

Just tore it down to rebuild after a dropped sleeve. I'm changing up the HG/O'Ring setup a bit this time though.

Darton Sleeves @99.75mm Bore
Tomei 1.2mm EJ25 Head Gasket
Soft-Annealed SS Wire O'Rings @0.041" > .030"x.038" deck groove.
Target of 650+whp
Y u no closed deck
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 08:10 PM   #32
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

We've ran LA sleeves. We sent the blocks to LA Sleeves for the machining and sleeve installation.

The setups we ran where 600whp+ setups on E85 and 30psi+ boost levels.
Three of the blocks we took apart I've notice the main bores going out of round. They oval out and clearances go up to twice the oil clearance. The blocks have to be decked at the centers, and line honed back to round. This in turn you have to install the rear main seal before the halves come together. We have also had to oval out the oil pump dowel holes to fit the because the dowel pins are closer to the center. None have dropped sleeves. One is currently running 52psi of boost on a 76mm Xona turbo on E85 from the barrel.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2020, 12:56 AM   #33
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
We've ran LA sleeves. We sent the blocks to LA Sleeves for the machining and sleeve installation.

The setups we ran where 600whp+ setups on E85 and 30psi+ boost levels.
Three of the blocks we took apart I've notice the main bores going out of round. They oval out and clearances go up to twice the oil clearance. The blocks have to be decked at the centers, and line honed back to round. This in turn you have to install the rear main seal before the halves come together. We have also had to oval out the oil pump dowel holes to fit the because the dowel pins are closer to the center. None have dropped sleeves. One is currently running 52psi of boost on a 76mm Xona turbo on E85 from the barrel.
Thanks for your input as well. 52psi is very very impressive. I wonder why your main bores are ovaling. I was gonna get the block line honed after being sleeved and pinned to correct the distortion from all the work. What headstuds and head gaskets are you using? What kinda o ring wire and what protrusion height(Iím assuming you have an oringed deck)
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2020, 08:07 PM   #34
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Small update. Brother has purchased parts for the build. We decided to run darton sleeves. Our local machine shop has experience with installing them so went with that route. Parts list for block is

Darton sleeves 300-031-3

BC I beam rods with 625 hardware BC6606

JE Ultra series pistons 361328

OEM crank 12200AA430

I will create a separate build thread for the complete setup.
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2020, 04:57 PM   #35
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmartynyuk View Post
Small update. Brother has purchased parts for the build. We decided to run darton sleeves. Our local machine shop has experience with installing them so went with that route. Parts list for block is

Darton sleeves 300-031-3

BC I beam rods with 625 hardware BC6606

JE Ultra series pistons 361328

OEM crank 12200AA430

I will create a separate build thread for the complete setup.
Who do you use for machine work?
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2020, 05:49 PM   #36
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Link to the build https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2930929
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2020, 05:51 PM   #37
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Who do you use for machine work?
I will be working with G&A Cylinder Heads in Portland Oregon. They are developing a closed deck service as well so depending on when that will be available I may do the closed deck + Darton sleeves on this block.
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2020, 08:14 PM   #38
redwards11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 214876
Join Date: Jun 2009
Default

My 257 is darton sleeved, no issues 5 years now in hot or freezing temps
Paired with mahle 4032 pistons its smooth, quiet and oil consumption has not been an issue. Gord Bush performance in Toronto did the sleeves
No big power....yet...or ever on the 4032s. Only on a 20g but the motors been good.

Last edited by redwards11; 12-01-2020 at 08:35 PM.
redwards11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2020, 03:14 AM   #39
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwards11 View Post
My 257 is darton sleeved, no issues 5 years now in hot or freezing temps
Paired with mahle 4032 pistons its smooth, quiet and oil consumption has not been an issue. Gord Bush performance in Toronto did the sleeves
No big power....yet...or ever on the 4032s. Only on a 20g but the motors been good.
Still good to know itís holding and the sleeves arenít dropping. What head studs and what head gasket are you running? Oringed deck?
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 03:32 AM   #40
redwards11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 214876
Join Date: Jun 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmartynyuk View Post
Still good to know itís holding and the sleeves arenít dropping. What head studs and what head gasket are you running? Oringed deck?
Not o ringed
Using 11mm arp studs and a cosworth hg
redwards11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2021, 05:24 PM   #41
jwill99
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 506794
Join Date: Sep 2019
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lincoln, NE
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STi
White

Default Another long-term owner

My roommate is running darton sleeves in his car that were done by AR Fab in 2016. It has around 1500 miles on the build. It had a 6466 @45 psi since 2017, made 832whp on a dyno jet. We recently swapped the turbo to an S366 (66/73 0.82ar) and had it on the dyno with @junior2jz. Had to stop at 33psi (made 500 and change) due to his dual 450 setup getting weak. Hoping to break back into the 800ís this coming April. P.S. his block is o-ringed, and he his running Manley rods, pistons, and a Manley billet crankshaft. ARP 1/2 inch studs. Not an ounce of trouble (yet). However, he is pretty sketched out hearing about all these sleeves that are dropping, especially considering the fact that most of the guys arenít even running as much power/boost as he is. Hoping for the best.
jwill99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2021, 09:29 PM   #42
user1029
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57064
Join Date: Mar 2004
Vehicle:
2008 STi IAG built
HTA86 E85 Kel272s Cos IM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwill99 View Post
My roommate is running darton sleeves in his car that were done by AR Fab in 2016. It has around 1500 miles on the build. It had a 6466 @45 psi since 2017, made 832whp on a dyno jet. We recently swapped the turbo to an S366 (66/73 0.82ar) and had it on the dyno with @junior2jz. Had to stop at 33psi (made 500 and change) due to his dual 450 setup getting weak. Hoping to break back into the 800ís this coming April. P.S. his block is o-ringed, and he his running Manley rods, pistons, and a Manley billet crankshaft. ARP 1/2 inch studs. Not an ounce of trouble (yet). However, he is pretty sketched out hearing about all these sleeves that are dropping, especially considering the fact that most of the guys arenít even running as much power/boost as he is. Hoping for the best.
He can sleep soundly with a closed deck, firelocked block
user1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 10:02 AM   #43
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwill99 View Post
However, he is pretty sketched out hearing about all these sleeves that are dropping, especially considering the fact that most of the guys arenít even running as much power/boost as he is. Hoping for the best.
With that much age, mileage and power put into it, if it hasn't dropped, it likely won't. If a sleeve is going to drop, it usually happens when you start to turn up the boost. You've already done that
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2021, 03:27 AM   #44
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwill99 View Post
My roommate is running darton sleeves in his car that were done by AR Fab in 2016. It has around 1500 miles on the build. It had a 6466 @45 psi since 2017, made 832whp on a dyno jet. We recently swapped the turbo to an S366 (66/73 0.82ar) and had it on the dyno with @junior2jz. Had to stop at 33psi (made 500 and change) due to his dual 450 setup getting weak. Hoping to break back into the 800ís this coming April. P.S. his block is o-ringed, and he his running Manley rods, pistons, and a Manley billet crankshaft. ARP 1/2 inch studs. Not an ounce of trouble (yet). However, he is pretty sketched out hearing about all these sleeves that are dropping, especially considering the fact that most of the guys arenít even running as much power/boost as he is. Hoping for the best.
Do you know if his deck is pinned? also do you know his protrusion height on his oring and what size/type of wire? also what head gasket? And thanks for your input. Oh also, what year sti?
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 11:28 AM   #45
stiaddict07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 522124
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney145 View Post
2 reasons for sleeves dropping. First, the counterbore for the flange should be machined with an end mill using circular interpolation on a CNC mill, not simply a 90 degree cutter in a boring bar. This guarantees that the counterbore is dead flat. Second, after the sleeves are installed by whatever method the shop uses and the block is back to room temp, they need to be final seated with deck plates before surfacing them flush with the deck. Pushing on the sleeves with a press does not do it, they need to be pulled in with plates. The sleeves will always end up at least .002" higher than they theoretically should after the block's temp stabilizes. This goes for any flanged sleeve in an aluminum block.

Curious, when you said "not simply a 90 degree cutter in a boring bar." would this not be flat because the tool may not be ground correctly?
stiaddict07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2021, 07:44 PM   #46
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmartynyuk View Post
Thanks for your input as well. 52psi is very very impressive. I wonder why your main bores are ovaling. I was gonna get the block line honed after being sleeved and pinned to correct the distortion from all the work. What headstuds and head gaskets are you using? What kinda o ring wire and what protrusion height(Iím assuming you have an oringed deck)
It seems when the bores are cut to fit the sleeves, a lot of material is removed. Once it heat cycles it warps/shifts.

We are using the RCM big boy studs. Heads have to be drilled to fit them and the block tapped for the studs. The headgaskets are the JE Pro Seal/ Athena Cooper Fire Ring Head Gasket. No oringed deck.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 01:58 PM   #47
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Yeah, both sleeves and 14mm headstuds move some serious material from around the mains.

As for the cylinder wall warping and shifting with head cycles and sleeves, that is something I cannot confirm.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:04 AM   #48
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
It seems when the bores are cut to fit the sleeves, a lot of material is removed. Once it heat cycles it warps/shifts.

We are using the RCM big boy studs. Heads have to be drilled to fit them and the block tapped for the studs. The headgaskets are the JE Pro Seal/ Athena Cooper Fire Ring Head Gasket. No oringed deck.
Oh geez, so you are able to run that much cylinder pressure with just a JE Pro Seal and no oring at all?
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:08 AM   #49
alexmartynyuk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191967
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
2005 EVO VIII
@boost_reality

Default

Or are you talking about the head gaskets that iag sells: https://www.iagperformance.com/iag-c...0aAuU9EALw_wcB
alexmartynyuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.