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Old 01-05-2021, 05:10 PM   #1
K3rm1tth3fr0g
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Default 3576 Gen 2 too big for a 2.14 stroker?

Hey guys,

Just wanted to ask a quick few questions to you fine people while my tuner is on vacation and I await his reply.

I can pickup a used Spoolinator 3576 kit (.82 A/R) for a decent deal right now and was curious if a high revving 2.14L closed deck motor would be extremely laggy or have decent response when paired with that turbo if anyone has experience. The goal of the build will be a redline of 8K+.

Also just as a side qustions, for a high revving build, would you guys choose a 2.1 stroker or a destroked 2.3 and why?

Build will feature:

Outfront Motorsport 2.14L closed deck short-block
EJ207 Big port Spec C heads
Undecided on cams currently and associating valvetrain
Killer B holy header
ETS FMIC

Let me know if I need to provide any more information about the build or if there are any threads addressing the 3576 with a low displacement setup because I couldn't find any.
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Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-17-2021 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:28 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Hey guys,

Just wanted to ask a quick few questions to you fine people while my tuner is on vacation and I await his reply.

I can pickup a used Spoolinator 3576 kit (.82 A/R) for a decent deal right now and was curious if a high revving 2.14L closed deck motor would be extremely laggy or have decent response when paired with that turbo if anyone has experience. The goal of the build will be a redline of 8K+.

Also just as a side qustions, for a high revving build, would you guys choose a 2.1 stroker or a destroked 2.3 and why?

Build will feature:

Outfront Motorsport 2.14L closed deck short-block
EJ207 Big sport Spec C heads
Undecided on cams currently and associating valvetrain
Killer B holy header
ETS FMIC

Let me know if I need to provide any more information about the build or if there are any threads addressing the 3576 with a low displacement setup because I couldn't find any.


so I have a 2.1 stroker with v9 heads and a spoolinator. I have a 3067 with a .82ar and it really doesnt make power til 4000..maybe a little earlier. I can only imagine that that thing wont spool til 4500. If I were to go that route, I would go with the smaller .ar to get that thing spooling earlier. I even thought about going with s 3071 gen 2 and a smaller hotside to see if that would give me a little more power

also know that if you decide to go with the spoolinator, you will have to shave the block a bit to get it to fit

pm me if you want more info
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:31 PM   #3
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so I have a 2.1 stroker with v9 heads and a spoolinator. I have a 3067 with a .82ar and it really doesnt make power til 4000..maybe a little earlier. I can only imagine that that thing wont spool til 4500. If I were to go that route, I would go with the smaller .ar to get that thing spooling earlier. I even thought about going with s 3071 gen 2 and a smaller hotside to see if that would give me a little more power

also know that if you decide to go with the spoolinator, you will have to shave the block a bit to get it to fit
4500 is fine for response, so I might go this route.

Do you think 2000cc Injectors would have idle issues on a motor like this?
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Old 01-05-2021, 08:25 PM   #4
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4500 is fine for response, so I might go this route.

Do you think 2000cc Injectors would have idle issues on a motor like this?
yes it will
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:09 AM   #5
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yes it will

Fair enough, I assumed as much.


And I think if I do run this setup I will likely stick with the .82 A/R that the setup is currently equipped with as to not choke out the turbo up top. The goal of this build is big power in the high RPM range. AVCS and the increase in displacement should hopefully make the difference and allow the setup to spool decently.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-06-2021 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:11 PM   #6
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so I have a 2.1 stroker with v9 heads and a spoolinator. I have a 3067 with a .82ar and it really doesnt make power til 4000..maybe a little earlier. I can only imagine that that thing wont spool til 4500. If I were to go that route, I would go with the smaller .ar to get that thing spooling earlier. I even thought about going with s 3071 gen 2 and a smaller hotside to see if that would give me a little more power
You can go with a GTX3071R to get more power. The trade-off will probably be about 250rpm spool in keeping the same 0.82 A/R. I would not recommend the smaller 0.63 A/R housing unless you're running E85. On pump gas, the smaller A/R would certainly cost you power. On E85, the A/R has less effect on power.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:16 PM   #7
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Fair enough, I assumed as much.


And I think if I do run this setup I will likely stick with the .82 A/R that the setup is currently equipped with as to not choke out the turbo up top. The goal of this build is big power in the high RPM range. AVCS and the increase in displacement should hopefully make the difference and allow the setup to spool decently.
If you're targeting big top-end, then the GTX3576R will be the one. Across any engine platform, Evos, Hondas, GMs, anything in the 2.0L range, I like the GTX3071R for the more street biased setup and fun weekend HPDE car with some decent mid-range. For a top-end car and time attack build that will operate heavily in the upper rpm range, GTX3576/3582R. 3576 if still used on the street, 3582 for dedicated track car. Dual clutch also allows for a bigger turbo as there's no drop in boost on a shift, so response is less of an issue. And an 8k+ rpm redline, or the powerband would be too narrow if you can only spin to 7-7.5k.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:19 PM   #8
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I snagged the kit!

Probably gonna stick with the .82 A/R unless I have a compelling reason otherwise considering high RPM is the goal and it should flow well enough at 8.5K...

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-09-2021 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:24 PM   #9
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I snagged the kit!

Probably gonna stick with the .82 A/R unless I have a compelling reasoning otherwise considering high RPM is the goal.
Nice! If you need a non-Subaru reference, an AP2 S2000 with the 2.16L F22c and GTX3576 should be very similar. Same generation engine basically, early 2000s, no fancy variable valve timing to improve spool-up, port injection. I mean, not much flows like the heads on the F20/F22 on the top-end, but the spool-up would be similar I imagine.
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Old 01-09-2021, 04:41 PM   #10
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Nice! If you need a non-Subaru reference, an AP2 S2000 with the 2.16L F22c and GTX3576 should be very similar. Same generation engine basically, early 2000s, no fancy variable valve timing to improve spool-up, port injection. I mean, not much flows like the heads on the F20/F22 on the top-end, but the spool-up would be similar I imagine.
I'll definitely have to look into that!

Thanks for your suggestions!

Super excited to see what this setup can do once the built motor is done.

Hopefully AVCS on the 207 heads can help at least a little with spool.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-09-2021 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:25 PM   #11
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You probably snagged the kit right out of my hands. Was just about to buy the used killer b kit on here. Someone bought it the night before.

Looks like we are building someone very similar. I too am building a closed deck destroker but a 2.3. Clint from TiC will be building it for me. Since the killer B was sold I decided to go rotated and have a opportunity to get a brand new TigWerks kit with a HTA 86 turbo. So I think I'm going to go this route.

I'm building a track car so looking for spool 4-4.5k. Regarding cams I probably will be mix matching, stock intake and stage 1 exhaust. Or stg1 intake and stg2 exhaust, not sure yet.

Also look into E85. Its new to me but the more I read and talk to people, its the way to go for a destroker
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Old 01-10-2021, 05:38 AM   #12
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You probably snagged the kit right out of my hands. Was just about to buy the used killer b kit on here. Someone bought it the night before.

Looks like we are building someone very similar. I too am building a closed deck destroker but a 2.3. Clint from TiC will be building it for me. Since the killer B was sold I decided to go rotated and have a opportunity to get a brand new TigWerks kit with a HTA 86 turbo. So I think I'm going to go this route.

I'm building a track car so looking for spool 4-4.5k. Regarding cams I probably will be mix matching, stock intake and stage 1 exhaust. Or stg1 intake and stg2 exhaust, not sure yet.

Also look into E85. Its new to me but the more I read and talk to people, its the way to go for a destroker
Haha I think you're right about that! Glad you were able to figure out a good setup. I'm Also considering a 2.3 destroked motor... Still undecided

How high are you planning to rev?

And yeah car is going to be flex tuned likely on E70ish.
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:17 PM   #13
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Want to build the block to be able to run 9k but will cut it down to 8500. Well see how hot the eng gets.

To answer your question, for track use the 3576 will be the turbo to go. But for street driving, I would think it would be a nightmare to drive.
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:23 PM   #14
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Want to build the block to be able to run 9k but will cut it down to 8500. Well see how hot the eng gets.

To answer your question, for track use the 3576 will be the turbo to go. But for street driving, I would think it would be a nightmare to drive.
Well I guess time will tell.
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:02 AM   #15
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Haha I think you're right about that! Glad you were able to figure out a good setup. I'm Also considering a 2.3 destroked motor... Still undecided

How high are you planning to rev?

And yeah car is going to be flex tuned likely on E70ish.
just curious why e70? I have a mr2 that I used to mix e50 for and that was a night mare going and getting the jugs out to just get gas. I would suggest getting tuned for what ever the highest e percentage you can find. and use that as a ethanol tune
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:02 AM   #16
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just curious why e70? I have a mr2 that I used to mix e50 for and that was a night mare going and getting the jugs out to just get gas. I would suggest getting tuned for what ever the highest e percentage you can find. and use that as a ethanol tune
E70ish is the highest available in my area to my knowledge based on my research.

We'll see what the ethenol sensor actually measures when it's tune time.

Edit: the station should be E75

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-11-2021 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 01-11-2021, 10:23 AM   #17
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Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Got a Wawa station that sells E85 near to me. Just called the and confirmed. 12004 E Roosevelt Blvd, Philadelphia, PA 19116

Check out this site, it might help
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethano...arest?fuel=E85

Give these guys a call. This is the nearest to Seattle WA I could find.

Gateway Gas & Deli
8030 Douglas Ave SE
Snoqualmie, WA 98065
425-292-0934

Second nearest

Shell
1401 172nd St NE
Marysville, WA 98271
360-652-3059
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Old 01-11-2021, 11:12 AM   #18
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Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Got a Wawa station that sells E85 near to me. Just called the and confirmed. 12004 E Roosevelt Blvd, Philadelphia, PA 19116

Check out this site, it might help
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethano...arest?fuel=E85

Give these guys a call. This is the nearest to Seattle WA I could find.

Gateway Gas & Deli
8030 Douglas Ave SE
Snoqualmie, WA 98065
425-292-0934

Second nearest

Shell
1401 172nd St NE
Marysville, WA 98271
360-652-3059
Yeah my options for ethenol are fairly limited in WA compared to the east coast but it seems we here in the NW trade ethenol for no salt on the roads.

Thanks for those suggestions, I'll definitely look into the Snoqualmie location as well.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-11-2021 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:27 PM   #19
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E70ish is the highest available in my area to my knowledge based on my research.

We'll see what the ethenol sensor actually measures when it's tune time.

Edit: the station should be E75
yeah we here in california have e80 year around, but I know other areas espeically where it gets cold, theirs varies, just like winterized gas
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:51 AM   #20
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After talking with my tuner I am likely going for a 2.35 destroked setup instead of the 2.1 stroker for a variety of reasons, mainly the selection of the turbo.

Also going standalone Link ECU in a few months so I can run flex fuel on my current VF39 EJ205 setup to allow for seamless transition when the motor gets built and the spoolinator goes on. Tuner said it should pick up 20-40WHP just by changing ECU, not including the gains from ethenol.

Should be interesting to see what happens.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-22-2021 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 01-29-2021, 09:00 PM   #21
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What cams are you planning on using?

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Old 01-30-2021, 12:04 PM   #22
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What cams are you planning on using?
Currently undecided on cams, valves and other head components, waiting for tuners advice. Open to suggestions. Looking to make usable power till 8.5-9K.

Also still deciding if potentially a 2.5L may be a better option for my setup with a slightly lower redline. Decisions decisions.
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Old 01-30-2021, 04:04 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Currently undecided on cams, valves and other head components, waiting for tuners advice. Open to suggestions. Looking to make usable power till 8.5-9K.

Also still deciding if potentially a 2.5L may be a better option for my setup with a slightly lower redline. Decisions decisions.
The 2.5 has so many reputable builders and proven options (just look at IAG alone).

To me this means something much more proven and available than piecing together a specialty build. And, when all else is equal, there's still no substitute for cubic inches.
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Old 01-30-2021, 04:18 PM   #24
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The 2.5 has so many reputable builders and proven options (just look at IAG alone).

To me this means something much more proven and available than piecing together a specialty build. And, when all else is equal, there's still no substitute for cubic inches.
Totally.

Definitely looking to rev it out rather than building the setup for tons of bottom end torque which is why I didn't initially begin thinking it would be a 2.5L setup. I've definitely been exploring my options in regard to custom builds vs IAG shortblocks. An IAG closed deck 2.5 seems like it may fit the bill for a lower cost than a 2.35. We'll see what my tuner thinks.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 01-30-2021 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:20 PM   #25
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Totally.

Definitely looking to rev it out rather than building the setup for tons of bottom end torque which is why I didn't initially begin thinking it would be a 2.5L setup. I've definitely been exploring my options in regard to custom builds vs IAG shortblocks. An IAG closed deck 2.5 seems like it may fit the bill for a lower cost than a 2.35. We'll see what my tuner thinks.
That turbo will do very well on a 2.5L at rpm, I run a much less efficient gen 1 3076 and it holds 500whp till 8500 happily. Just be sure everything gets balanced and use parts that complement each other rather than trying both ends of the spectrum. It appears your clear on the rpm over bottom end tq.
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