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Old 12-22-2020, 12:30 PM   #1
spoolinsti05
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Default High resistance at immobilizer module grounds. No codes runs and drives very odd..

Update post #20

Check post #11 for update





So I had some major continuity issues with resistance in my engine harness. I fixed all that. Had pin tension issues fixed that.

Now I have this issue where I'm getting continuity to ground with the ecu unplugged. Ok thats good and normal.. Buttttt....

Once I plug the harness in to the ecu and start the car my ground is beeping morse code to me on the volt meter with my backprobe attached. I'm pretty sure that's not normal..

So I jumped all the grounds and the car runs so much better when I do that!

I'm suspecting a circuit issue in the ecu at this point. I could jump all them to ground internally in the ecu. But I don't want to band-aide a bad motherboard circuit issue honestly.

I really need a fsm anyone have the ecu pin out in color coded? Jr had a 04 sti ecu in my car at one point when my 05 one got bricked. I just wanna make sure he swapped all the corresponding pins back when he put the 05 sti ecu back in. I suppose that could be my cause of ground signal issue. It's just two wires on pin b and 4 on pin d. I've been using the aem ecu pin out to check my ecu wiring. But they don't show the color coded wires in corresponding pin locations..

Anyone ever have this issue?

I don't really want to get a new ecu because last time I unmarried my Cobb ap she didn't wanna sign the divorce papers and my ecu got bricked. And my Cobb ap was trash..

The more I learn about these cars I realize it's not only like a rotary engine but the wiring is probably worse then an older german car driving down the road with the tail light flickering.
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Old 12-22-2020, 02:35 PM   #2
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Marco?!!?!
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Old 12-22-2020, 03:15 PM   #3
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In my opinion, Subaru wiring is very good for the most part. There have been certain issues on various models that have had some issues but all in all, they have a good design.

There are number of major ground points under the hood that need to be checked to make sure they are making a good bond to engine and chassis ground. If you can add a jumper to a ground point and get an improvement to performance then that ground point needs to be tracked down and repaired. Ebay is a good place to find factory manuals at decent prices. Getting at least a factory wiring diagram manual at retail prices is worth having on hand. There is no substitute and it is a good investment to make.
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Old 12-22-2020, 04:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Cougar4 View Post
In my opinion, Subaru wiring is very good for the most part. There have been certain issues on various models that have had some issues but all in all, they have a good design.

There are number of major ground points under the hood that need to be checked to make sure they are making a good bond to engine and chassis ground. If you can add a jumper to a ground point and get an improvement to performance then that ground point needs to be tracked down and repaired. Ebay is a good place to find factory manuals at decent prices. Getting at least a factory wiring diagram manual at retail prices is worth having on hand. There is no substitute and it is a good investment to make.

Understand that. I had gone through every wire in the engine harness itself and repaired low resistance areas. Personally had issue with areas that subaru shares connection to a single wire like injectors coils and engine harness grounds.

The tar they use seems to have heated and leaked into the connection causing high resistance. When I clipped the wire I had to clip it back a decent amount because that waterproof tar had made its way back into the wiring between the strands and protective sheething. That is my only complaint with the wiring. That and those terminal pins (blade connector style) spread and don't hold tension especially if the engine has been in and out. I'd prefer a spade style.

The wire quality itself seems to be standard and up to par.

I also have a short finder that traces the signal and had noticed funky signal lose on the main battery ground to starter. So I added a ground following that wire. And placed it on the starter solenoid 10mm bolt.

I guess the only thing stopping me from getting a manual from eBay would be are the diagrams intricate enough to show color coating on the harness pin locations? Anyone have a manual that can confirm that? That's what I really need to ensure my pins had been swapped in correct locations..

Or anyone have a 05 sti that can snap a picture of plug B and D on the harness?

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Old 12-22-2020, 04:43 PM   #5
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Does anyone know the ground point locations under the dash? I could probably find them but don't really want to remove the dashboard unless I absolutely have to.

Anyone familiar with the ecu grounds and if they should have continuity to the body of the ecu itself? I'm pretty sure that info isn't going to be found in the manual. Possibly a denso ecu circuitry manual where can I get one of those?
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:09 PM   #6
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Anybody else opinion? Or am I talking to myself again! Not that I don't enjoy conversing with myself. :-8
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Old 12-23-2020, 05:18 PM   #7
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I think there is at least one or two main grounds near the top of the center of the dash.
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:42 PM   #8
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Not wishing to confuse the issue, but doesn't the ECU ground to the intake manifold? (It does on my '98.)
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Old 12-23-2020, 11:33 PM   #9
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Not wishing to confuse the issue, but doesn't the ECU ground to the intake manifold? (It does on my '98.)

I believe those grounds are for injectors and coils. But yes they come from off the ecu not actually the coils and injectors themselves. from what I've gathered without looking at a fsm.

The ecu also has many other grounds. But they also go through the circuitry in the motherboard.
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Old 12-23-2020, 11:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar4 View Post
I think there is at least one or two main grounds near the top of the center of the dash.
Hopefully I can see them by removing the clock I'll take a peek soon and check back. Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:31 PM   #11
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So wanted to update this.. found no visible ground wires under clock...

But what I did find when removing the intake manifold grounds I separated the grounds on the driver's side where the two terminals bolt together to the intake..

And I put my multimeter to read voltage.. I went from ground to ground and what I got was .5 volts on the one terminal utilizing the black/yellow ground wires and the one black and red wire.

So I poked around the fuse box pulled fuse sbf 5 and voltage reading dropped to 0..

I was not able to hold a steady rpm and idle was slightly rough. As well as a large swing in afr correction. And up to 10 cylinder roughness randomly between 1-3.

When I removed that ground wire the car ran smooth as butter. Minus 2 counts roughness on cyl 2 but I'm assuming do to one of those wires needing ground.. however it is a pain to determine what wire it actually is having the voltage to ground as all 4 wires tie into that single terminal and I would like to avoid cutting them granted I can always put them back in place.

So again I will make fun of subarus crappy wiring due to the fact of tracing a short is impossible without hacking up a terminal connection.. don't get me wrong I love my Subaru.


But man when I look at my star point grounds on my Acura with each wire to individual terminal loops. Makes you really appreciate it when you need to trace a short.


However the short to ground I need to figure out. I'm guessing I could have a main relay issue. Gonna check that tomorrow. Anyone else have that issue? I suppose the relay could be sticking. Or shorted.

From what I gather that can happen if a capacitor is on the circuitry. But I don't believe there is? I mean the coil can be considered a capacitor. But why would cylinder roughness occur when I have the ground wire that is supposed to be hooked up hooked up and go away when I remove the ground?

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Old 12-29-2020, 03:01 PM   #12
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I'm not clear about what you used for the reference ground point when you read the .5 volts on one of the ground lugs. You need to check the connection going to the reference ground. I recommend you use the negative battery post as your ground reference point. I doubt the Main Relay itself is shorted but something it connects power to could have a short across it. Some of the engine related sections that fuse SBF-5 supplies power to do draw a fair amount of current so the .5 volt drop you saw may just be due to wire losses, but the voltage drop does seem a little high for that.

The factory manuals not only show what the wire colors are going to each connector pin it also shows connector colors and where the connectors are located in the car. There is no better reference manual available that I know of. It also shows the ground wire connections in a separate section.
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Old 12-29-2020, 07:59 PM   #13
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I'm not clear about what you used for the reference ground point when you read the .5 volts on one of the ground lugs. You need to check the connection going to the reference ground. I recommend you use the negative battery post as your ground reference point. I doubt the Main Relay itself is shorted but something it connects power to could have a short across it. Some of the engine related sections that fuse SBF-5 supplies power to do draw a fair amount of current so the .5 volt drop you saw may just be due to wire losses, but the voltage drop does seem a little high for that.

The factory manuals not only show what the wire colors are going to each connector pin it also shows connector colors and where the connectors are located in the car. There is no better reference manual available that I know of. It also shows the ground wire connections in a separate section.
I have the negative on my multimeter hooked to the negative battery post..

I unplugged the brown connector on the main engine harness and the black and red wire is seeing .6v now.

I checked on the chassis harness end. So I traced that back to the black plug under the driver's dash side next to the blue plug that also shows continuity between the b/r wire leading to engine harness.

So with both unplugged I have continuity and no voltage good so I know that section of harness isn't an issue..

That black plug under dash with small Black and red wire is showing .616 volts I believe it's a ground since it connects to ground under the hood.

It appears to run through the dash harness to the ecu. Appears to be pin D1 and D1 or b137 1,2 if looking at oem manual. I found a pin out online for free but seems to be missing pin function b137 pin 16

Anyhow I'm gonna unplug the ecu and see if I'm still getting .616 volts at the terminal plug under driver's dash. If the volts goes to 0 I'd guess the issue would be in the circuitry on the ecu.

If it doesn't I'm assuming something else in line is causing the issue. Suck working without a repair manual. Especially electrical stuff. So far they seem to match the colors of wires going into each plug well so it isn't to bad to track down.

I did use the kengilbert manual to rebuild my engine and transmission. But the wiring has different pins for the 04-05 sti
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Old 12-29-2020, 11:10 PM   #14
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So when i unplugged the immobilizer the voltage to ground went away.

Whatever this is has to do with when Jr swapped the 04 sti ecu in. I know that for a fact.

I checked power at ecu pins and I noticed pin 15 has 11v which is what my battery has after checking all this.

The pin out I found says that's for the test mode connector. Oddly enough I had continuity from that connector to my ground wire giving the issue.

So I'm assuming he didn't swap the pins back to correct locations..

Oddly the car runs and I'm not having any major issues. Especially after I de-pinned that shorted wire. But I'd like to put it back the way it was.

Can anyone confirm pin colors for b137 (14-17) and b135 (26,27) I really don't have the spare cash for a manual right now. And would like to confirm wires are not mixed up.

Also can someone confirm what b137 16 is functioning and it's output..

Because the pin out I found lists b136 pin 16 twice so I'm assuming it was a typo on that version. And they meant b137? One says map sensor 5v and other says tumble valve 5v I'm getting 11v to that pin!!

Pin b137 seems to be correct ignition 11v when key on 0 when off. I hope it's just a mixed up wire from when he swapped ecu and I hope he didn't get anything.. like the freaking immobilizer I don't see how though because the car runs.

Ugh and this ladies and gentlemen is why I don't let anyone touch my freaking car..
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:50 AM   #15
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I have to 04 manuals I'm thinking I can figure out if the wires are correct as long as the colors are the same on each harness.

I'll jump into it tomorrow and see what I come up with. I was looking at the ground circuits and I'm gonna trace them. But I'm assuming the test mode wire isn't correct and is swapped with the ac wire. I just can't understand how the 12v to ground hasn't popped any fuses at all. ***129300;
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:40 PM   #16
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I am having trouble understanding how you are measuring the voltages to ground and it sounds like you are not testing things correctly, the way it seems to me at least. If you are disconnecting a ground lead and then measuring the voltage on the wire that was tied to ground but is now isolated from ground, you don't want to look for ground issues that way. You need to check for a voltage drop while the grounds are connected normally. Since you are using the battery post as your ground reference you then check for voltage drops at the main ground points. If you see an unreasonable voltage at that ground point it means there is some resistance between that ground point and the negative battery post.

If you are seeing 12 volts on an open wire that normally ties to ground it means that Ohm's Law is still working correctly. When you open the return wire of any circuit that has power applied to it you will see whatever the applied voltage is to that circuit, in this case 12 volts. No current is flowing because the circuit is now open so no voltage drop can appear across any loads on the circuit. All the voltage will appear at the open point of the circuit. When the open wire is reconnected to ground and current flows the loads will then have the proper voltage drop across them.

2004 WRX Sti

137 pin 1 and 2- blk/red - ground
137 pin 14-org- line end connector

Ebay is a good place to purchase manuals for a good price.
137 pin 15-grn/red-power
137 pin 16-blu/yel- to AC control module connector B283 pin 4
137 pin 17-light grn/wht-main relay coil

135 pin 26- violet/wht- fuel pump controller
135 pin 27- grn/wht- combination meter

Ebay has manuals available for a reasonable price.

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Old 12-30-2020, 05:32 PM   #17
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I really need those pin colors for 05 sti not 04..

And I am checking ground with the battery hooked up. I only disconnected the black harness plug under dash to check if the power was coming to ground from under the hood or the harness behind the dash.

And it it's in fact coming from the immobilizer under the dash. I haven't looked farther into it yet.

Trust me I know how to test a circuit lol also I've seen issues where you cannot open those pdf files I see they're only 10 bucks for manuals but I'd hate to not be able to open what I paid for. Makes me lean more towards the paper haynes manual.
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Old 12-30-2020, 08:53 PM   #18
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So I did some more poking around I can still only find a good manual for a 04 sti meh don't even think that's good honestly...

As it's saying b136 pin 1 is in the circuit for this ground I'm having issues with..

But then I look to the ecu diagram and it's saying b136 pin 1 isn't even used.. btw I'm using the aem diagram the subaru one is full of typos.. maybe I just don't have the updated subaru one probably why it was free.. lol scary to think if you couldn't get something like that correct the first time after you already built the dang car.. lol

If any of the manuals out there are like that honestly you can keep you junk manual if that's the case I'll have better luck with my tester on continuity to find the circuit myself.

As I did I unplugged the ground loop connection at the ecu harness the white one.. and now I'm not jumping that .6v to the ecu grounds.

So I'm getting closer to the issue. I know it's in-between the immobilizer and that ground loop plug. On the black and red wire.

The scariest thing just for the heck of it I hit my door ajar sensor and it jumped from .7v to 6.0v on the ground wire...

I know a light bulb is really just a short to ground.. meh. Why are cars such junk? I mean either way it still runs and is super fast but man I just want it to be perfect. Lol
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Old 01-05-2021, 04:45 PM   #19
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So I finally found a good manual that appears to be legit yay.. looking at the schematic for the immobilizer the wires I trace should be ground as suspected.

I'm gonna check the ohm ratings on the wiring but I'm suspecting the issue is a short in the immobilizer unit itself. Meh. Or possibly the ignition. I'll update thread when I get a chance to trace it all and find the issue.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:07 PM   #20
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So I went through the manual and tested my wires going to the imm ecm and what I found was pin 15 and 25 have like 75 ohm resistance also if I check voltage it's getting 6v obviously no continuity..

So I'm thinking jr didn't swap the wires correctly for the test mode connector. I'm gonna check that but having a hard time because the ecu pin-out doesn't list color codes. So I'm sitting through sections of the test mode connector wiring and other 5 pins to get the colors and going back to the pin-out and writing them all down.

Worst case they're correct I suppose that wouldn't be worst case..

I was thinking of just snipping the grounds from the loom and grounding them all on external from the loom because I really don't want to take my dashboard out and dip into a 500 wire loom to trace the short if that is even the case..

Thoughts?
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:00 PM   #21
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So jr got the wires in the correct spots..

Oddly from what I'm seeing on D17 says LY but my wire is BY meh..

I'm wondering if he shorted the immobilizer when he put the 04 sti ecu in. Had this issue since then..

Guess my next step is to de-pin the grounds at immobilizer plug and check the pins coming out immobilizer and pins when they're out of the plug..
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Old 01-10-2021, 03:11 AM   #22
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http://jdmfsm.info
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:45 PM   #23
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http://jdmfsm.info
Good find but I believe the jdm harness has different color wires not 100% sure.

I did find a manual that list rhd and lhd cars also automatic trans cars all in one manual via pdf file. It was very hard to find.

But it's not perfect from what I'm seeing. Many typos and unlisted colors of wires on certain diagrams. And missing plug with pins in diagrams for the engine ground circuit. Shows them in the diagram then when I look to the bottom where it shows the plugs and pin locations they're not in the picture. I hope that's not what you get for the paid version. Otherwise I'd so want a dang refund lol

I know my issue is behind the dash for sure.

I'm trying to see if the immobilizer has a relay so I can rule that location out. I'd love if it was just a relay issue. But in the diagram I have it doesn't show the immobilizer going to a relay.

I'm so tempted to just cut the wires and run separate grounds for them. Really not pulling out my dash and digging into that mess of a wire loom. Lol

I even unplugged my double din radio and my gauges to rule out them being the issue. And no luck still high resistance on the ground wires to the immobilizer..

Oddly I was only getting .7v when I checked voltage to ground. Then something in my head said you know just hit the door switch to cut the circuit for the dome light. And see what the meter reads. And I did. And then I started getting 6 volts to that ground wire. So I'm just like wtf at this point lol still runs though lol
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Old 01-10-2021, 09:32 PM   #24
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I'm not clear on what ground wire going to the immobilizer you're talking about where you got 6 volts. There are separate ground points going to the immobilizer for the door switches and the grounding for the immobilizer itself. My info shows that ground for the immobilizer module is on pins 2 and 3 of connector B141. The door switches, that make a ground connection when activated, connect to pin 5 of that same connector.

The immobilizer grounds connect to ground through two different connectors. Mating connectors B100 and F2 then on to mating connectors F60 and E3, the BR color wire from connector E3 should tie to the GE-1 ground terminal. Connector F60 and E3 are 16 pin connectors and pin 16 is connected to the immobilizer along with the data link connector, test mode connector, vehicle speed sensor(MT), and neutral position switch. Connectors E3 and B22 should be brown in color and by the engine bulkhead, and near the center of the rear end of the engine.
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Old 01-11-2021, 02:02 AM   #25
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I'm not clear on what ground wire going to the immobilizer you're talking about where you got 6 volts. There are separate ground points going to the immobilizer for the door switches and the grounding for the immobilizer itself. My info shows that ground for the immobilizer module is on pins 2 and 3 of connector B141. The door switches, that make a ground connection when activated, connect to pin 5 of that same connector.

The immobilizer grounds connect to ground through two different connectors. Mating connectors B100 and F2 then on to mating connectors F60 and E3, the BR color wire from connector E3 should tie to the GE-1 ground terminal. Connector F60 and E3 are 16 pin connectors and pin 16 is connected to the immobilizer along with the data link connector, test mode connector, vehicle speed sensor(MT), and neutral position switch. Connectors E3 and B22 should be brown in color and by the engine bulkhead, and near the center of the rear end of the engine.

Pin 15 and 25 b141 fsm states in immobilizer section that those wires should have less then 10ohm resistance to chassis ground. If not repair the circuit. I've unplugged harness for vss, neutral position switch and b100 checked resistance same thing like 160ohm resistance.. as far as the test mode connector goes I've checked that also same amount of resistance. Checked from data connection to pin 1 b100 same thing.

So it seems the connection issue is on all sensor circuits..


The troubleshooting also stated make sure pins 2,3 have less then 10 resistance to ground. I think I checked them I forget. I'll check those again also. But I was concentrating on 15, and 25 since that was the first issue I had seen.


I've already checked continuity on f60 pin 16 and that end of the circuit is good.

My issue is behind the dash somewhere..

Dash was never removed I am original owner of the car..

I'm curious where the shielded joint connection is it also doesn't tell you that. I'm wondering if that is where the issue is.

Oddly I noticed my main relay is shutting off fairly late. Figured it was on a timer.. but I'm not getting continuity to ground on that either.. so I'm just like ha wtf is going on. Cuz the damn car still runs and the relay still works..

And I know for sure my meter is good. I've always done all my own repairs. I've been working on cars for 15 years. This has gotten me stuck. And I usually can figure things out pretty quickly.

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 01-11-2021 at 02:13 AM.
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