Nissan committed to replacing 370Z and GT-R

[oichan]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

I'm feeling a little F-Type Jag in this rendering.

Actually I like the general shape of this car. Details will need to see the actual car, but overall lines I like. Hope they do release a MT version and can hang with the GR Supra.

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[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by BeepBoop

I appreciate the homage to the old z cars, but I pray (like scraps says) that the greenhouse is proper instead of what that render is like. And I hope that chrome accent strip is easily removed so it can be painted. Also, "hanging with the supra" isn't exactly what I had in mind for it. I want a mini gtr that does what the gtr does to its relative competition.

If I may contradict a bit here and offer a different wish. I do not want it to chase the supra. It will be too expensive. The key to the Z in the early days was affordability. This has to be in the mid 30's to low 40's. I cannot get into the 50's at all.

Make this fun and lively and interesting and playful, but not brutal. In short give us the turbo BRZ we have always wanted at a reasonable price. That should be the Z.

[White out]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

I'm feeling a little F-Type Jag in this rendering.

Probably because that rendering is definitely based off of an F-Type with Nissan bits added to it.

Specifically from this shoot

[4S-TURBO]

LOL yep!

[lil'redwagon]

If I were to speculate, Nissan will have the resources to do EITHER the Z or the GTR. Yes, I know there are rumors of them updating both, but I don't see that happening, at least at first. If that were the case, they would need one of them to do sort of a "zone defense", where they only offered one car, but in 'supercar' trim and 'runabout' trim. I think they could make the Z cheap and expensive (4 cyl & TT6 cyl versions), but I don't think they could do that with the GTR. So I think they would follow what the Supra is doing with 4/6 cylinder versions, and bring the GTR back 5 years from now. So yeah, the 4 cyl would be a turbo BRZc competitor, and the 6 cyl would be a Supra competitor with corresponding price tags. And if demand sustains, then bring out a world beating GTR. Totally a guess, but that's how I would handle it.

[SCRAPPYDO]

I like that plan very much ^^

[BeepBoop]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Make this fun and lively and interesting and playful, but not brutal. In short give us the turbo BRZ we have always wanted at a reasonable price. That should be the Z.

Oh no, I 100% agree. I hadn't really thought about price point much, but affordable is my desire as well.

Think of all the various value class leaders:
WRX (not STI, base WRX) - sub-30k champ
Camaro SS - sub 50k champ
Vette - sub 70k champ
GTR - supercar value champ (also holy SHIZ when did the price creep up this much?)

I'm just saying wherever they do try to insert it, they dethrone a current champ. I'd be ecstatic if they threw it into the 20s, 30s, or LOW 40s.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Dethone the current champ.... hmm lets talk about that? How?
What metric do you want it to dethrone the champ?

Acceleration,
Top Speed
Comfort
Tech goodies
Braking
Steering Feel
track times


I do not want Nissan to build a better XYZ. I want them to build a Z. Affordable fun and quick. I would rather them come out with something like a GTI which is damn good at everything but not the best at anything and keep it affordable than make a track monster thats not comfortable or affordable or fun for daily driving

Does that make any sense?

[legacy_etu]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Dethone the current champ.... hmm lets talk about that? How?
What metric do you want it to dethrone the champ?

Acceleration,
Top Speed
Comfort
Tech goodies
Braking
Steering Feel
track times


I do not want Nissan to build a better XYZ. I want them to build a Z. Affordable fun and quick. I would rather them come out with something like a GTI which is damn good at everything but not the best at anything and keep it affordable than make a track monster thats not comfortable or affordable or fun for daily driving

Does that make any sense?

It does and I agree with you that it should be a value sports car. With it being a 2 door though it’s really limited in trying to be a jack of all trades like the GTI.

[AVANTI R5]

We’re getting closer to getting a clear picture of the Nissan 400Z’s future, including electrification.

The plan is looking like an ICE at first, followed by some form of electrification.

The next-generation Z car is part of Nissan’s plans for 12 new models over 18 months’ time.

There’s no need to explain how important the Nissan Z car is for the company, especially in North America. The original Fairlady Z more or less put the Datsun/Nissan name on people’s lips and it needs to remain there. A new electrified, or hybrid, Nissan 400Z would certainly do that.

(Next Nissan Z Car Production Could Start September 2021)

Speculation about the Nissan Z car’s future has been both negative and positive. Early last month, doubts about the car’s return were put to bed as Nissan shared a video in which a compact sporty 2-door is clearly visible. Everyone seems to agree that “400Z” will be its given name, at least at first.

More than likely, the non-electrified 400Z will be powered by Nissan’s twin-turbo 3.0-litre V6 (VR30DDTT) that develops 400 horsepower and 350 lb.-ft. of torque in the Infiniti Q50 I-LINE Red Sport.

What carsales has discovered, by prompting Nissan’s vice-president of global product strategy, Ivan Espinosa, is that electrification is on the menu:

“What I can tell you is I still see space for two different things. Probably in the short term you can still see a bit more conventional technology coming. By conventional I mean maybe still ICE driven, maybe with some electrification on the sports cars,” He adds: “But we still see space for a bit more innovation in the ICE field and in the mid/long term you could start hearing from Nissan maybe exploring on the sports cars with electrification.”

If this turns out to be true, then the Nissan 400Z car has a bright future ahead of it.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by AVANTI R5

Sick of random renders being thrown into articles.

[Ultimateone]

This is from someone who knows a **** ton of stuff

"Carmaker1 said:
Alright, as I was going to say the other day, be prepared for a very lengthy post:

Since 2011, a number of proposals and business cases have been submitted to the board of management for Z35 program, replacement for Z34 Z.

Nothing has been formally approved and made it into production development. Endless clay models and sketches for years on end, only for Mr. Carlos ghosn to reject it in the end. Whether as CEO of Nissan or as chairman Post January 2017.

This has been the story of premium and sports Nissans, particularly Infiniti nearing a decade.

The future of the brand and Infiniti is something I'm going to spell out.

In early 2017, a fully redesigned Z35 was approved styling and all. As some work progressed on that vehicle program throughout 2017, by January 2018 it was again cancelled by Mr. Ghosn and Saikawa.

The car was very beautiful and one of the most high-end expressions of Nissan design language.

In an effort to save face and keep up morale, Cuban American Alfonso Albaisa, the newly-promoted design director of Nissan Design global worked very hard to come up with a new business plan for the vehicle and ended up with something more viable by the end of summer.

What was the core issue with this vehicle? The act of spending money on a new sports car with new technologies, powertrain, and a new company-wide rear-wheel-drive unibody architecture, was daunting if Mr Ghosn had to approve it.

Replacing the front midship RWD architecture has been proposed in multiple vehicles 2019 Infiniti QX70 and Q80 flagship 4dr. Like LC 500 was lead vehicle for TNGA-L, either of those two had to be that or an all new Z. Since those two business cases were killed, it was left to this car to do that. Be the lead vehicle on a new architecture.

It was not deemed very viable to develop an expensive rear wheel drive architecture that could accommodate an ICE roadster/2-str, all the way up an EV capable RWD basis flagship crossover. Hence so many dead ends.

At the end of summer in 2018, $240 million was earmarked for a heavy revision. At this point the final design and other aspects in the design studio were completed. Nada beyond that point in summer 2018.

At this point, production will begin in September 2021 for November launch as a 2022 model year vehicle. It will not arrive sooner than that and will share quite a bit with the CV37 Infiniti Q60 coupe, being that it hinges on borrowing as many components as possible from that vehicle.

What many of you may not realize is that, the front midship platform is an architecture that made its debut in June 2001 on the V35 Skyline sedan aka Infiniti G35 launched March 12, 2002. IT IS 19, NINETEEN YEARS OLD!!

The front midship platform project on its own was also in limbo so long and a serious undertaking during the 1990s.

As early as 1993, ideas were thrown around on what should replace the new R33 Skyline range and that of the G20 in the United States, below Q45 and J30.

Nissan executives in Yokohama looked at the BMW E36 3-Series, now in its 3rd year since 1991 launch as a competitor. And much more refined car than its predecessor launched 1982-83, which harkened more back to 2002 days of yore. A much more luxurious car than E30 and a preview of incoming E38 flagship and upper level E39, that were trotting around in camouflage on the Nurburgring back in 1993.

Going with a more performance-oriented edge, would ensure success against BMW and stomp on Toyota's milquetoast entry effort with ES 300.

For various reasons, converting the R33 Skyline to LHD for the United States as an Infiniti performance sedan proved to be a fruitless endeavor and not worth the trouble to meet a 1995 model year release. Especially in the midst of recovering from the bubble burst.

In some ways the styling was already too racy and didn't fit NDI chief Jerry Hirshberg's silky styling ethos for Infiniti, including new Maxima-based I30, which had already been designed, but not due until 1995.

In 1994, formal commencement of developing this new rear wheel drive architecture occurred, to be ready in time for 1998. Lower cost replacement for R33 Skyline was inaugurated, dropping RB for VQ.

However, by the end of 1995 plans to develop this architecture fell by the wayside because Nissan's economic outlook soured some more and more demanding programs were made priority.

A redesigned Z33 for the 1997/98 model year was also canceled, as the sales situation in the United States was impossible regarding 300ZX. An Infiniti coupe, styling approved in May 1993 internally for late 1996 launch, was also canceled.

At that point R34 was assigned to a revised car and new P11 Primera launching in Europe, was now being developed for mid-1998 launch as a stopgap G20 for 1999. Unfortunately due to poor timing, it also meant that the G20 would have to go out of production for 2 years.

By 1997, the interim projects were entering pilot phases and the front midship programs were resurrected. In early 1998 what became the G35 sedan was completed in the design department and work was ordered on a two-door variant. Designation also changed to V35, from V34.

Back at Nissan Design International in La Jolla California, Jerry Hirshberg got the idea in mid 1998 to do a 240Z concept for NAIAS. The 240Z concept made its debut in January 1999, but no production program was fully under way yet.

As the spring drew closer, Nissan was borderline hitting bankruptcy. Both DaimlerChrysler and Renault were asked to get involved. DaimlerChrysler opted out if I recall and Renault sent Carlos Ghosn over to Japan by May. He then became COO.

Just like this display of future vehicles back in May 2020, in order to give investors and the media confidence in the future of Nissan, many future vehicles were shown due years out.

In April of 1999, the G35 sedan was among those revealed in an embargoed setting, to automotive journalists at 1999 NYIAS who were impressed by the pop up navigation screen and headlight design, but barred from use of any photography or illustration.

An earlier version of this vehicle was shown in Tokyo as the Nissan XVL Concept, which wasn't a concept, but actually the heavily detailed fiberglass mockup of the new RWD Infiniti sedan, years before it went on sale. Naturally it would not be shown so early, but they felt they were ready.

Meanwhile, the cash infusion from Renault ensured that the FM platform now had funds to be fully engineered and go into production by the summer of 2001. This also meant that the new Z car had a basis it could share the costs with.

Not only V35 range, but a wagon, a new coupe like crossover by 2003, new midsize sedan by 2004, a new flagship by 2006 (canceled). Carlos Ghosn inaugurated his Nissan Revival Plan by September of 1999, which included a roster of vehicles across both brands.

By March 2000, what became the 350Z was approved stylistically and frozen that autumn, I had of its 2002 launch.

In January 2001, the Z Concept was revealed and pretty much the production vehicle, being formally revealed in full in Tokyo that October alongside a great surprise in a GT-R concept. (Now elevated above the Skyline range, intended to be a borderline supercar when funds allowed it.)

The FM platform lead vehicle in V35 sedan was already revealed in June 2001 and not too shortly afterward, the 2003 Infiniti G35 itself, several months ahead of its introduction in March 2002. G35 coupe came in November 2002 and FX45 in January 2003.

FM platform was birthing so many great products, at lightning speed.

Problem is the replacements for all of these vehicles above were heavy revisions on the same platform. Come 2010s, a lot of these second gen RWDs have been killed off, left in limbo. Namely Q50, Q70, QX70, QX50, Q45* and last but not least 370Z.

Because of Hurricane Katrina, developing the current Z34 was a struggle during the design process and barely made styling approval in late 2005, as the corrupted oil substances for the clay made their work difficult.

Since 2008 nothing has changed, as per what I said above. Hopefully you understand why it's daunting to create a new rear wheel drive platform, when customers are not willing to pay for Infiniti products of that nature without demanding incentives.

The Z can never survive without Infiniti involved in this modern era of cost consolidation. Since Infiniti was going for seda, a new ICE RWD platform doesn't make sense.

---R36 GT-R is not in development at the moment, it is on hiatus and will resume in time for a 2026 launch. It is essentially deja vu like was the case in 2001 with the GTR concept being shown and not surfacing until 2007. R35 production ends in 2022.

Other than extremely delayed QX55 next April, nothing new for Infiniti until 2024. Infiniti EV plans have been pushed back in favor of more new CUVs, so not sure what is happening."

[oichan]

I get the impression Nissan is rushing to get this car into production, share too many parts off other cars deforming the overall shape and design intent.. then QC issues after release due to rushing everything and no budget.

Not sure why I feel so negative about this car.. I'm hoping we get something cool.

[Sid03SVT]

I haven't driven the 370z in a while, and if I recall correctly my only gripes are the VQ and the dated interior (materials, U.I. etc.; across the board just felt very dated). What if as a stepping stone Nissan kept the existing chassis, updated the exterior styling and put in the 3.0TT engine with an MT as the only option, & updated the interior?

If sales perk up there is a case to develop a new chassis, if not it's a parts sharing experiment.

[JP Chestnut]

Nissan should probably be worried about not going out of business. Nissan was down 10% last year and Infinity was down 30%.

[kayen]

Originally Posted by oichan

I get the impression Nissan is rushing to get this car into production, share too many parts off other cars deforming the overall shape and design intent.. then QC issues after release due to rushing everything and no budget.

Not sure why I feel so negative about this car.. I'm hoping we get something cool.

After reading the story above, it gives you zero confidence Nissan is able to do anything great other than the GT-R. Even that is postponed and who knows if it will ever come to fruition in this decade.

I know I have zero interest in Nissan's or Inifiniti's half baked platforms.

[BeepBoop]

Originally Posted by oichan

Not sure why I feel so negative about this car..

Because it's nissan and they have routinely screwed the pooch over the past decade so hard that there is no longer any compelling reason to buy them over any other mfr outside of maybe the leaf (as the cheapest bargain bin fully electric car) and gtr. You have every right to fear for this thing and how it ends up.

[4S-TURBO]

"What I can tell you is I still see space for two different things. Probably in the short term you can still see a bit more conventional technology coming. By conventional I mean maybe still ICE driven, maybe with some electrification on the sports cars," He adds: "But we still see space for a bit more innovation in the ICE field and in the mid/long term you could start hearing from Nissan maybe exploring on the sports cars with electrification."

I'm convinced this is an obligatory statement about all future vehicles whether true or not.

[legacy_etu]

Maybe Ghosn was the problem the whole time. Now with new management we’ll see. Funny how ones impending doom has the ability to sharpen ones focus........or else it dies as it should.

I agree with aScrappy. If you can get away with a minimal investment getting current Q60 engine in there and redo the interior you can see how the market responds. Go from there. The current 370z doesn’t totally suck.

[Skunkers]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Dethone the current champ.... hmm lets talk about that? How?
What metric do you want it to dethrone the champ?

Acceleration,
Top Speed
Comfort
Tech goodies
Braking
Steering Feel
track times


I do not want Nissan to build a better XYZ. I want them to build a Z. Affordable fun and quick. I would rather them come out with something like a GTI which is damn good at everything but not the best at anything and keep it affordable than make a track monster thats not comfortable or affordable or fun for daily driving

Does that make any sense?

As a prior 300ZX owner, I'd say all of those things you listed are important; but for me, steering feel is by far the most important, especially coming off the Z33 and Z34. The 350Z and 370Z both *felt* like parts-bin cars to me, hence why I never bought either despite loving my Z. The 370Z in particular was a huge disappointment, because *on paper* it was a dream car for me, but I was tremendously disappointed when I finally drove it. The stats, the design, I was happy with all of it, but disappointed in the drive. Poor steering feel, awful NVH (the VQ37 likes to rev about as much as an 80s Pontiac V6), and disconnected shifter. I remember pedal placement being good, and if I forced myself I would get probably just get used to it. But relative to the competing S2000 or RX8, I would have happily taken either in terms of driving dynamics over the Z.

[oichan]

Biggest issue I had on the 370Z was the throttle response. It was slow. It was weird how the auto-blip would be very instantaneous where as the throttle look like a good 0.5sec to react after input. The huge side mirrors blocking my view was also another issue I had.. and overall kind of cheap feeling.

The car felt like an older sports sedan from BMW, but overall the car was okay.. I loved the shape though (pre-refresh). Anyway I fear the 400Z is a repeat of that in addition to DAS which I hate.

[heavyD]

A certain poster should read that article as it may give him an understanding of how things work behind the scenes in the industry and how difficult it is in this day and age to build an all new sports car. You get the feeling the BMW route was the only way a Supra was ever going to get done as they would never be able to clear all the red tape internally to build their own version from the ground up.

My hopes were never high that Nissan was going to be able to get the next Z right and this article certainly casts more doubt. That said it's going to be up to their chassis engineers to get the most out of what's going to be a parts-bin Infinity. If they can keep the weight down to an acceptable level and get the handling and steering right it may be good enough to become a Supra competitor.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by heavyD

You get the feeling the BMW route was the only way a Supra was ever going to get done as they would never be able to clear all the red tape internally to build their own version from the ground up.

I agree, particularly if Toyota were fully committed to keeping the Supra a turbocharged six-cylinder and nothing less, particularly with the kind of stock firepower that we're seeing from the 2021 model.

I don't want to drift off too much into a Supra discussion, but I feel like it would've been a cooler idea (which I guarantee has been bounced around not just in this forum but probably in any) to maybe have instead used the 86 chassis which was already pretty good and then had Subaru drop the engine from the WRX, perhaps in a higher tune, and then give it its own unique or updated bodywork (like a more aggressive bumper and wider fenders to accommodate wider wheels and/or wider tracks). It's not too crazy, remember that the Supra started out as the Celica Supra anyway, plus the silhouette of the 86 was always pretty handsome, so something like this was theoretically feasible and presumably not extremely difficult, plus it probably would start in the mid $30k range, which isn't too bad, especially if the standard interior is the better one and not the one with the Scion knobs. The production Supra just looks oddly proportioned and is a little bit pricier, and I can see those two things having turned at least a few buyers away. While I personally don't have a problem with the transmission that they used, obviously some people would have wanted a manual, which very likely would've been the main option for an 86-based Supra. But who knows, there may have been people who'd have been up in arms about the Supra nameplate being used.

Originally Posted by heavyD

My hopes were never high that Nissan was going to be able to get the next Z right and this article certainly casts more doubt. That said it's going to be up to their chassis engineers to get the most out of what's going to be a parts-bin Infinity. If they can keep the weight down to an acceptable level and get the handling and steering right it may be good enough to become a Supra competitor.

I think it could compete but mostly just because it's in that same category of vehicle, but if Nissan went that route (which wouldn't necessarily be a terrible thing), I feel like the majority of comparisons would have the Supra in first place and then the Nissan a distant second.

Going the parts-bin route can be intriguing for making a variant of existing platforms (think of how cool the 1999-2000 Civic Si was, when Honda had all those leftover B16As from the discontinued Del Sols and decided to put them in Civic coupe), but to more or less make an entire car out of them in the high-performance category is a difficult task. I'm sure that they could build one that doesn't suck, but I just have a hard time seeing it put up a real fight, though I don't doubt that it would probably look better than the Supra that we have today.

[Skunkers]

Originally Posted by heavyD

A certain poster should read that article as it may give him an understanding of how things work behind the scenes in the industry and how difficult it is in this day and age to build an all new sports car. You get the feeling the BMW route was the only way a Supra was ever going to get done as they would never be able to clear all the red tape internally to build their own version from the ground up.

My hopes were never high that Nissan was going to be able to get the next Z right and this article certainly casts more doubt. That said it's going to be up to their chassis engineers to get the most out of what's going to be a parts-bin Infinity. If they can keep the weight down to an acceptable level and get the handling and steering right it may be good enough to become a Supra competitor.

In fairness, if that dude is as old as they say they are and their opinions are still that ignorant, then I don't think sources of knowledge to learn from has been their problem.

[oichan]

Originally Posted by heavyD

A certain poster should read that article as it may give him an understanding of how things work behind the scenes in the industry and how difficult it is in this day and age to build an all new sports car. You get the feeling the BMW route was the only way a Supra was ever going to get done as they would never be able to clear all the red tape internally to build their own version from the ground up.

Yep, so true. I think the BMW route Toyota took was a fantastic idea.. Even their RC-F track edition can't pull off what the M2C/Supra can at a much lower price point, I don't think.

Although the RC-F, I am sure, is much better put together fit and finish wise.. I think I'm going to enjoy that on their next gen IS350F while keeping my Supra of course.