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12-02-2012, 11:07 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Peak Boost Levels Dropping
A few months ago I got my WRX road tuned by IA Performance and we had it peaking at about 16.5 psi. I swapped in the GS EBCS just before the tune and on the first WOT run I was only hitting 10 pounds. He had me double check that the EBCS was hooked up correctly and I triple checked that it was. He had me tighten up the wastegate actuator arm a bit and that still didn't help achieve higher boost levels. So he cranked up the wastegate duty cycle to around 90% which had me a bit worried. But being that I am pretty new to turbo cars and know nothing about tuning, I asked him and he reassured me that it would be fine. I've noticed over the last few months that I'm hitting lower and lower peak boost levels at WOT and now I'm maxing it at about 12-13 pounds.
Is running the wastegate at 90% duty cycle wearing it out and making the wastegate door open sooner or wider or something and dropping my boost levels? Does this IA Performance guy have no idea what he's doing or what? And if the wastegate is bad, can I replace it or fix it? Thanks. /Long story bro.
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12-02-2012, 11:23 PM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 255776
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:2010 LR WRX MPS powered. |
I'd be looking for something mechanical going on. The tune shouldn't be an issue. Check for boost leaks and pre-turbo exhaust leaks.
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12-03-2012, 07:28 AM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 181298
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: MAIC
Vehicle:2019 KUV 21 Crystal White |
Did u swap to new vacuum lines when u installed Ebcs? Not sure if restrictor pill from stock lines wld cause problems but I know the pill isn't needed for ebcs
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12-03-2012, 09:44 AM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 330625
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:2006 WRX WRB |
Thats what I'd be looking for. OR you could have a seriously clogged up intake. I'm taking an entire state worth of mice in the airbox.
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12-03-2012, 10:38 AM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
From the sound of it, something was not right since the EBCS was installed. You should actually need LESS WGDC using a Grimmspeed EBCS to reach the same target boost.
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12-03-2012, 11:17 AM | #6 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Quote:
I'll check the intake today. I can do a datalog and upload it here if anyone thinks they can diagnose the problem that way. Is it possible that I have a bad EBCS? |
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12-03-2012, 12:17 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
Quote:
It's possible I suppose. More likely that its hooked up incorrectly or there is a vacuum line popped off somewhere. |
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12-03-2012, 01:20 PM | #8 |
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12-03-2012, 02:21 PM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Okay I'll have a look again at it today but I'm certain I hooked up the EBCS correctly during the install. I checked and rechecked and rechecked. I did a datalog earlier and now I'm peaking at 61% WGDC and 14.1 psi while target boost is 17.5 psi.
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12-03-2012, 02:51 PM | #10 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 255776
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:2010 LR WRX MPS powered. |
Do you have a wideband? What's your AFR?
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12-03-2012, 03:52 PM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
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12-03-2012, 03:53 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
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12-03-2012, 03:55 PM | #13 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 255776
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:2010 LR WRX MPS powered. |
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12-03-2012, 05:04 PM | #14 |
Scooby Newbie
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NWIC
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Vehicle:05 STI Black |
A boost leak will def change the afr. Your pulling in unmetered air so if you got a leak your going to run lean.
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12-03-2012, 06:29 PM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
According to my datalog, I'm staying at 11.14 AFT at WOT but that's using the stock O2 sensor so I'm assuming 11.14 is the lowest it can read.
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12-03-2012, 07:54 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
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12-03-2012, 08:05 PM | #17 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 255776
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Location: Laramie, WY
Vehicle:2010 LR WRX MPS powered. |
Yes, checking his AFR is a very easy way to see if there's a possibility of a boost leak. It's a hell of a lot easier than manually checking each connection, especially if you've got a front mount.
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12-04-2012, 09:57 AM | #18 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
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Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
Quote:
What I'm getting at is checking AFR will not confirm nor deny boost leaks. He should check for boost leaks regardless of what his AFR reads. Boost leaks do not always have a huge affect on WOT AFR. As OP stated above his AP is reading 11.14 which is safe, however this does not prove there are no boost leaks. The fact that the peak boost as slowly lowered over time makes me think some sort of boost leak has developed. OP, when you are see 61% WGDC what is your turbo dynamics doing? Trying to add more boost? If you peaked at 61% then your tuner is not using 90% in the WGDC tables. He must have gotten it worked out or gave you some incorrect info. Maybe he set the max allowed WGDC to 90% but that does not mean the ECU will always go that high. Its WGDC table + Turbo Dynamics = final WGDC. If you had a boost leak somewhere and your max WGDC was 50% in the table at WOT then turbo dynamics added 11% (max) trying to reach boost target and still cant reach target. That sounds a lot like a boost leak. I would be curious to see a log of a WOT run in 3rd that shows Boost, Target Boost, TD error, TD Integral, TD Proportional, and MAF grams per sec. |
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12-04-2012, 10:47 AM | #19 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Okay I did a datalog this morning, pulling from 2500rpm to about 6000 rpm. Boost peaked at 15psi (still 2 pounds below target) and I did hit 90% WGDC. It seems I can only build that much boost when I go WOT lower in the rpm band and build it up. I'm uploading three datalogs. The first is the one from this morning, the second is from yesterday morning showing lower boost and lower WGDC and the last is a datalog I did right after I got the car tuned a few months ago.
WOT 3rd Gear Pull Driving Pulls Tuning Pull |
12-04-2012, 11:31 AM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
The first one from this morning shows your Turbo Dynamics pegged at maximum trying to reach boost target. However you peak WGDC is staying in the low 60's. So it seems your WGDC table is tuned in the lower 50's and the Turbo Dynamics is adding its maximum amount (proportional is pegged at max all the way thru that pull) and the total is coming out to about 61%. This possibly shows your do not have enough WGDC set in the high table or your have a boost leak.
Interestingly enough, your log from right after the tune from a long time ago shows the WGDC's going into the 80's. Quite frankly this seems very odd. I don't see how both logs are from the same tune. |
12-04-2012, 01:18 PM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Okay man. I'll try to get it leak tested. Should I be prepared for the need for a retune after the leak is fixed being that it's possible the leak was there when it was tuned? It shows my target boost is almost 18psi which I've never seen even right after the tune.
Thanks so much for all the help. I'll let you know what the outcome is. |
12-04-2012, 02:39 PM | #22 |
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Sounds like you had a leak all along. I would fix and lid to see what your boosting at.
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12-04-2012, 02:41 PM | #23 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 245218
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL
Vehicle:2013 STI Limited |
Quote:
You should go over all of your vacuum lines, TB to IC hose, and BPV hose to see if anything is obvious. If you search the forum here there are a few different threads explaining different ways to perform a boost leak test. I would rule out a boost leak before entertaining other possible causes of your symptoms. None of this explains how your WGDC was maxed out at 61% on your most recent log, but was hitting in the 80%'s in the log you claim was from right after your tune.....actually come to think about it....does it only not reach boost target as the weather gets colder? It could be that your tuner did not tune the tables that reduce the WGDC's as intake temps get colder. Factory values in these table will cause a big loss in peak boost once the intake temps start dropping below ~60F. Since the EBCS is more sensitive, if those tables were left at factory values it would be pulling out too much WGDC. It could be this instead of a boost leak. Is your tune locked? Can you ask your tuner for a screen shot of the WGDC compensation vs IAT tables? |
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12-04-2012, 09:52 PM | #24 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 308317
Join Date: Jan 2012
Vehicle:2006 WRX Black |
Quote:
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12-04-2012, 10:10 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
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