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Old 09-24-2008, 05:46 PM   #1
strong_auto_concepts
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Default EJ series CAD model

I figure this is the most likely place for someone to see this.

Does anybody have a dimensionally correct EJ series motor CAD model.

I'd prefer Catia V5, but can deal with most others. Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-25-2008, 01:39 AM   #2
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I know you put it in here because you want someone to see this, but some of the first people to see this (other than me, of course) would be the admins, and they'd probably delete it for being in the wrong section. I'd put it under the General Community section just in case. Then again, I'm used to the SL-i.net forums, where the admins WILL move the thread the moment they see it, but I dunno about the NASIOC admins (don't spend much time here what with not owning an Impreza, y'see... but maybe some day I'll buy a GC coupe xD... Daddy needs a purpose-built rally car ).

Now aside from that, you might actually try sending an e-mail to Subaru, unless you've all ready tried that of course. Why do you want this model, by the way? Promotional imagery? A video game? I suppose I could talk to my school's drafting teacher to see if one of his more advanced students would be able to pull it off, but I doubt it.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian_Funk View Post
I know you put it in here because you want someone to see this, but some of the first people to see this (other than me, of course) would be the admins, and they'd probably delete it for being in the wrong section. I'd put it under the General Community section just in case. Then again, I'm used to the SL-i.net forums, where the admins WILL move the thread the moment they see it, but I dunno about the NASIOC admins (don't spend much time here what with not owning an Impreza, y'see... but maybe some day I'll buy a GC coupe xD... Daddy needs a purpose-built rally car ).



Posts like this blow me away. Was it really worth your valuable time to inform me of my misposting. You yourself have all of three posts, and in this very post you state that you don't spend much time here. Leave it to those in charge to decide where a post belongs. Let me just clarify a little for you...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian_Funk View Post
Now aside from that, you might actually try sending an e-mail to Subaru, unless you've all ready tried that of course.
Subaru has million upon millions of dollars invested in IP development for the EJ engine. It would be like asking Microsoft for the code to windows, or asking the Seahawks for their playbook. Companies don't provide IP for the simple reason that it's their property. You have to pay to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian_Funk View Post
Why do you want this model, by the way? Promotional imagery? A video game?
The model is necessary for development of engine components. Now, I may be wrong, but I think that this post holds to the intent of the "Built Motor" forum as much or more than your average "will these 100mm pistons fit in my stock motor" post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian_Funk View Post
I suppose I could talk to my school's drafting teacher to see if one of his more advanced students would be able to pull it off, but I doubt it.
I appreciate the effort, but a high school autocad drawing just isn't going to cut it. I've worked both as a consultant for Dassault Systemes, and now as a CAD expert for the Boeing company. I'm not asking because I'm not capable. I'm asking to save some of the hours and days it will take me to put each piece on the laser scanner and generate the parts.

Again, I apologize that I decided to pick your post apart, but all to often I see those that choose to take away from a conversation rather than add to it.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:40 AM   #4
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well, I have no clue but if you find one, I'd love to have a copy...

I know some universities (and a local shipyard) that have the nice laser 3-D scanners that will draft for you. MUCH cooler than boring old arms
Might be worth seeing if you could pay to use a resource that a grad student is most likely running.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:23 AM   #5
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i've been looking for the same thing but with no luck. plus i doubt anyone would anyone would spend the time to do it and just give it away.
if you find anything let us know.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:46 AM   #6
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would people be interested in breaking it up and those that know a piece of CAD software could each model a part.

The FSAE teams have had luck doing a CAD database, why shouldn't the Subaru community have the same.

I'm sure I can find someone to buy some time from on a decent scanner. I could use the one at back at OSU, but the 6 hour drive kind of negates that option.

What CAD package do you use Micah.
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:26 PM   #7
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yeah, the only one I currently know of, local to me that is, is owned by Northrop Grunman...

FSAE does have a nice database and it would be cool to have the same thing here...especially for flanges and such. I'm an inventor and solidworks guy.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:15 PM   #8
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I can handle solidworks, but I really dislike Inventor.

I've got to assume that Cobb, APS, Full Race, ..., one of the turbo kit companies has at least a basic model. I'd even be stoked about some basic interface geometry.

Oh well I suppose. When I get home I'll start modeling I guess.
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Old 09-25-2008, 04:26 PM   #9
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if you are modeling, just be sure to hit the main points...details can be worked out later

I wish I could help but I'm so busy after work (what kind of R&D engineering job doesn't have drafting software on the office computer?!!) with engine builds and design/machine work on my intake/exhaust manifolds and wetsump oil kit...(my crank is on hold, again)

what format are you drawing it on? I'm assuming a personal seat of catia v5
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:59 PM   #10
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I understand the busy after work situation. This will definately be a spare time project.

I'll probably make a cube with the right interfaces and go from there.

I bought a full seat of Catia. I've got Inventor and Solidworks as well (and I think Pro/E laying around maybe). The Catia to Solidworks conversion is pretty straight forward.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:30 PM   #11
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I haven't heard of any companies doing CAD models of any engine for any car on the aftermarket on the import side of things. There probably are some that have done it but just don't talk about it.

But we are talking about picking up a Zcorp scanner at work and I'm pretty sure I'll be doing some after hours scanning if we do.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03whitegsr View Post
But we are talking about picking up a Zcorp scanner at work and I'm pretty sure I'll be doing some after hours scanning if we do.


I must agree though that for most bolt on parts, they are just made and then measured and replicated. Not much use for CAD drawing. I know I can certainly use one for the wet sump and dry sump oil packages I want to make...I've had the general outlines but haven't done any hard measurements and this would make it easier and save tons of time
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:10 PM   #13
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You're absolutely right. If I was building a new oil pump, or a alternator bracket then there's no need.

I'm interested so that I can do systems routing and some tubing design. Basically if I can relative positions for all the connectors, and a general shape with interfaces I'd be set.
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:27 PM   #14
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Yeah, I've got some CAD models of some exhaust components for the Suby. Not real detailed though, just enough information to run some CFD work on the part with little interest in fitment. Fitment was done through rough fabrication to get a good idea of where fitment issues would pop up.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #15
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gsr. Do you mind forwarding what drawings you have? I'm not asking for anything you may have developed on your own, but if you have interface drawings such as exhaust port flanges, or that sort of thing it would be very helpful. Cheers
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:40 PM   #16
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Have you at least tried asking subaru? At my office, we have, on several occasions managed to get Finning/CAT to send us models of their engines, in an IGES file format. If you've ever dealt with CAT, you know they are the MOST stingy company when it comes to stuff like that...we couldnt even get them to give us any information on the engine mounts on a C9!
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:25 PM   #17
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I guess it would be worth a shot but alas I don't have any connections/contacts at subaru.

Maybe I'll start looking/asking around now.
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:06 PM   #18
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I'll ask someone from FHI tomorrow if they might have someone to contact. They've all got Subaru on their shirts... they must know something.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:44 AM   #19
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Yes, we would also like to see a good solid model of the EJ motor.

I have made a very basic one to just show the attachment points for alternators, pulleys, steering pumps, etc. It was a lot of work but VERY helpful in developing products. If you have a good/correct model, make the parts in that virtual word, it will fit on the real motor. Makes R&D quicker.

Here is the basic model I created. This is a supercharged engine project we are currently working on. Pulls like a V8!

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Old 09-30-2008, 11:34 AM   #20
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I've been getting my drawings for a whipple 140...not that I had any dreams with it. but that's for a "bigger" project that a friend of mine is working out all the nitty gritty on.

is that a w/a IC sitting on top?...I'm guessing yes and then the long runners down. Should be a torque monster!!

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 09-30-2008 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:59 PM   #21
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I put a word in with the folks at FHI. No guarantee that I'll hear anything back as their on the aerospace side, not the auto side.

I've got to come up with a block and heads. I don't have anything right now. I've got a nice set of TGV's that I can make available if wanted. I'm also working on the electrical system as we speak, but it won't be useful to those who don't want to start from scratch on ECU wiring

I'm pretty determined to get this going now. If FHI doesn't pan out I'll start on my own model next week.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:28 PM   #22
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Homemade WRX:

Yes, those are 4 Lamanova air to water IC cores sitting on top. Very efficient and compact. Lot more work with plumbing and making sure there are no leaks, but works great.

Boost off throttle is a ton of fun in these Subis!

If there is anything I can do to help with a master solid model of an EJ motor please let me know. I belive this would be a great tool for all of us for future development.
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:44 PM   #23
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Okay. I found an engine to buy finally. So I'll start modeling the main parts. I'll probably post a list of parts that I would like other people to contribute. I'll contribute the webspace and a portal to access the data.

Lets get some votes on a platform and a minimum tolerance. I'm going to try to laser scan the main components, but for those that would want to model manually should have some guidelines I suppose.

I'm going to model in CATIA, but I'll post in Solidworks as well. If there's a lot of interest, I'll post an Inventor surface as well.
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:48 PM   #24
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I can do some parts as I am in the middle of a build. I can save them in iges format, so anybody should be able to convert with ease. PM me if you want a list of things for me to measure up.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:17 PM   #25
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Excellent strong_auto_concepts! You have the right idea, if we all pitch in this can be done.

To be honest, I say post the parts in as many formats as the person who made can do. For example, if you can post in IGES or SAT, go ahead and do it. I use Inventor and it will take these no problem. Given they will be "dumb" models with no features but that is really all most of use need. I suspect most of us will assemble on our side? That is what I plan.

Also, I suggest including a text file of what the parts is in detail. For example the Steering pump file I have will have a text file stating it is from an USDM 2003 WRX. Or maybe always include that in the part name?

I also think it will be expectable to not include EVERY detail of the part. If the blocks are modeled is it acceptable that not every cast rib and feature is included? I think that is OK IMHO. Just need the important features.

Tolerance: Hard to say. For internal engine parts I would hope +/-.0005", for outer engine stuff (ie. brackets and such) +/-.005". Honestly I don't really need internal engine parts modeled as not sure what could be done with that? I really just want a good "outside" model on the engine.

I am ready to post:
steering pump (USDM 2003 WRX)
alternator (USDM 2003 WRX)

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