Looking for input on Civic track car?

[zoomfactor]

Well I just took my daughter's civic out for an extended drive and really liked the feel. Never appreciated how much of a difference 600 pounds makes! - even with an anemic engine (she has the 1.3L dog).

I'm looking to solicit some feedback from NASIOCr's that are tracking them. I've been around here long enough that I recognize the guys that I should listen to

Maintenance costs? - seems low but looking for coroboration
Pros?
Cons?
Any recommended suspension upgrades?
Would you do it again or pick another vehicle (Spec Miata)?

IBsomen00bsaysheythisisasubaruboard

Thanks,
JD

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[import111]

Maintinance should be fairly low cost.

Pros: Light weight, lots of aftermarket parts to chose from, cheap to mod.

Cons: FWD is not ideal for performance, power is gonna be hard to come by without a motor swap.

It all boils down to personal preference. You can make a FWD a monster on a race track. I think it is easier to make an AWD or a RWD track car though. Just my 2 cents.

[ghschirtz]

The old Mini-Cooper is an illustration of what you can do with (despite?) FWD and a mouse motor. Driving technique is similar (weight transfer is weight transfer) but there are actual differences you have to deal with. When I could remember a lot of things I could advise you more on that. The primary trick I remember now is staying on the throttle while braking to help bring the rear around...though this was more a rally trick with non-ABS systems. The Swedish Flick also came out of FWD-Saab guys tossing rally cars through turns. Less applicable to the track but you never know. Motor swap likely needed, but use the old one for a bit after you set up to learn the car and driving...

Not much, but good luck and happy running!!!!!

George

[daveyboy]

I have owned 3 crxes and used to co-drive (autox) a pretty well set up 89 civic si in STS. I currently have an '88 crx si that I autox in STS2 (it is consistently the fastest street-tired car at local events and often faster than a majority of the r-compound shod cars). With a decent suspension, the 88-91 crx/civics are an absolute autox terror! I have only tracked mine a few times--on certain tracks (my local track, for instance) they are a very capable car. In terms of reliability, all of mine have been reliable as anvils. My curent car literally has 200k miles on the odometer and an ecu with the redline set at 8k--just check the oil and add gas. The only recurring problem I could mention is that the ignition rotors have a tendency to work loose due to a lot of high-rpm driving. I just check mine periodically.

[zoomfactor]

I never really looked at any FWD vehicle as a performance platform, but the operational costs seem to make it a very reasonable alternative to the WRX and I can pick up a car and a trailer for a steal.

[dunny]

Well, the new Civic Si looks like it can turns its way around a track alright. Heck, one of them even managed a fairly decent result in this year's One Lap of America. Obviously a little econobox like the Civic, putting around 250-260bhp to the wheels, I believe, can't compete with brawny AWD cars like the STI, or RWD powerhouses like the M5, Noble M400, or Dodge Viper, but they still make a respectable mid-pack showing. Well actually.... Check out Car and Driver for the full write up on this year's hooliganism.

Dunny

[JoshS]

Lots of '99-'00 Civic Si race cars on the market. These used to be THE car to have in SCCA Club Racing in Showroom Stock C. There are lots of very good, well-prepared cars on the market right now.

[racekar]

if you did a engine swap that car would kick a lot of wrx butt. i used to have a civic and integra track car..

way cheaper to maintain also.

you just need good suspension and tires for the civic and youll out handle most wrx on the corners. if you did a engine swap it would keep up on the straights as well.

[racekar]

brake rotors for a civic at autozone is like 13 dollars vs 50-100 plus for wrx

[racekar]

for suspension i would go with koni yellow adjustable and ground control.

for track 350 front/ 350-450 rear depending how hard you want the ride.
forget the front sway bar. and get a ITR or progress rear sway bar kit with rear subframe reinforcement.
wheels 15x7 rota and get some good tires like kuhmo or toyora -1
225/45 tires will fit you might have to roll the fenders just a little
and some racing brake pad compound

with that setup it was a monster on the corners.

this is what i had on my old civic/integra.


to be honest after i run this wrx to the groudn ill probably buy a 94 -95 ntegra and start over again. i liked those cars the best out of 2 civic, prelude, integra, wrx 06 that ive owned

[Slick Nick]

Originally Posted by zoomfactor

(she has the 1.3L dog).

Just a quick hijack. What generation civic came with a 1.3L in it? I know the engines in the 92-95s were 1.5 or 1.6L. Did the 88-91 come with a 1.3L as an option? I thought only the insight came with a 1.3L.

As for the actual topic. Basically what everyone else has said. They are cheap, reliable and make good autox cars and track cars. NASA even has a Honda Challenge for different levels of prepped Hondas of all sorts.

-Nick

[gills]

Originally Posted by dunny

Well, the new Civic Si looks like it can turns its way around a track alright. Heck, one of them even managed a fairly decent result in this year's One Lap of America. Obviously a little econobox like the Civic, putting around 250-260bhp to the wheels, I believe, can't compete with brawny AWD cars like the STI, or RWD powerhouses like the M5, Noble M400, or Dodge Viper, but they still make a respectable mid-pack showing. Well actually.... Check out Car and Driver for the full write up on this year's hooliganism.

Dunny

Fairly decent? Didn't it finish 3rd overall or something around there? That's insane for a little FWD sports car.

[trhoppe]

I'll say this. My Civic is in every way more fun on track then the STi was. Cars to race, cheap to maintain, fun in the turns. The fact that the car is slower at the end of a big straight is made up by the fact that I'm faster in the turn on stock suspension

As far as "Would you do it again or pick another vehicle (Spec Miata)?"

Once I do this again, it will either be a 1.6/1.8 Miata for ITA, or an 94-00 Integra for ITA depending on weight.

-Tom

[east milford wrx]

you want a EG civic hatch. 92-96 Then you want to do a k series motor/tranny swap either rsx-s or civic TR. A few weeks ago at the track a guy with a k 20 swap was running consistant 12.6s with nothing but catless exhaust and a cone filter. This is like the sti in a drag race sure its fast but its not at home in the straight line, same thing can be said about a 17 hundred pound go cart with 200 hp.

[ralliharri]

Originally Posted by Slick Nick

Just a quick hijack. What generation civic came with a 1.3L in it? I know the engines in the 92-95s were 1.5 or 1.6L. Did the 88-91 come with a 1.3L as an option? I thought only the insight came with a 1.3L.

As for the actual topic. Basically what everyone else has said. They are cheap, reliable and make good autox cars and track cars. NASA even has a Honda Challenge for different levels of prepped Hondas of all sorts.

-Nick

I know there's an EDM version with 1.3 (or was just a few years ago).

[ChrisDP]

1.3 came in a really old model...

I have a '91 Civic Si setup for STS... parts are cheaper, the cars are pretty tough and they're very friendly on brakes. I've done a number of track days in it and after 10 hours of HARD track time, I let a friend borrow my front pads for an event at which point he asked "have you used these things? they look pretty much new!"

With a WRX at least, you're going to be shredding pads and rotors much more quickly. The Civic eats tires much more slowly too, and IMO is a whole lot more fun.

By the same token, my car is a ton harder to drive on track because it's VERY loose, has no electronic anything to cover your butt, not enough power to pull out of a spin by just donkeypunching the gas pedal. You've gotta do more of the work yourself in order to go fast in it to work to the cars cornering strength and make up for its lack of straight-line velocity. I've had a LOT of people come over after a session to ask what motor's under the hood, and as I point to the single-cam 1.6 liter VTEC-less wonder under the hood and street tires under the fenders, it becomes pretty apparent that the car is quick not because it goes fast, but because it doesn't slow down. Momentum cars are a blast and force you to drive REALLY well.

It makes a lot more sense to track a small, lightweight, low-power car to get better at track driving. Throw some tires at it, maybe some suspension toys (you don't HAVE to get insane with it) some track pads+fluid and go. Chuck some safety equipment at it, and if you do ball it up/break it, the parts are cheap and worse comes to worse you're out less money+heartache than balling up a $25k+ daily-driver.

[Furious George]

I recently came to the WRX set from having a 99 Civic for 6 years. I can tell you that you will appreciate the light weight, and the considerably lower cost of maintenace / modding parts. I ran a greddy turbo kit on mine, and it was a blast to drive both on the road and at the autoX.

A good place to start reading about Hondas in motorsports is the hondatech forums. They are pretty serious on that subforum, and you will get a lot of good info without a lot of the BS that you get on the rest of that site.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zeroforum/19


Good luck.

[trhoppe]

The honda-tech motorsports forum has gone big time downhill since anyone that knew anything there left for a superior forum.

-Tom

[lukerussell]

tom is correct. my bone stock, showroom stock scca civic ('99 si) is every bit to as fun to drive on track as the One Lap STi (+300whp difference). to make up for the fwd platform, you have to make the rear as loose as possible - which adds to the fun. i'll be at sebring this weekend and there are over 90 cars signed up for my run group = even more fun.

reliability - i've driven the car for 6 hours on track to date. so far i've had to replace the front pads and add some gas. i bought some spare rotors for $40, vs. $400 for the STi. every part on the car is about 10% of what an STi part cost.

if you like to mess around w/ your own cars, an it (improved touring) car or spec miata would be a little more fun to playwith. showroom stock you can play w/ tire pressure and alignment settings - that's pretty much it.

luke

[KC]

Originally Posted by trhoppe

The honda-tech motorsports forum has gone big time downhill since anyone that knew anything there left for a superior forum.

-Tom

Shhh!!!

[solo-x]

1.3l engines could be found in the 3rd gen and earlier civics. they had beam axle rear suspension and mac strut front though, so if the OP drove one of those and thought it handled good just WAIT until he drives any civic from 88-00.

any of the Si model civics are very fun track cars. good suspension stock, decent power, and close ratio gearboxes make them quite pleasant to drive. the 99-00 Si obviously has the most power of the double wishbone cars but a slightly inferior suspension to the previous two generations. the 7th and 8th gen Si's both have a lot of power, but the EP3 has some serious suspension geometry issues. the 8th gen is better and comes with a helical diff to boot.

reliablility wise, my 93 Civic EX has 265k on it. it was autocrossed HARD for several years. i've replaced the trans at 198k due to a bearing wearing out. that's it. they are easy on brakes, easy on tires, and easy on trannys. throw 250whp at one though and you'll start breaking chit.

[trhoppe]

Originally Posted by KC

Shhh!!!

Notice I didn't give the name of the superior forum.

-Tom