Official: Subaru Solterra (EV) ...coming 2022

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I get that. But, the Solterra is not competing in those classes. It easily puts a smile on your face, and never feels sluggish. Unlike most CVT Subarus.

Price wise, they are dabbling in that category absolutely. Sure, the base model Soterra is beating everyone by providing AWD at a low price. But the Touring is 52K. You can get an Ioniq 5 SEL awd with 320 hp for 53K. You're going to lose a few frills going to the SEL trim Ioniq, but you gain significant range, power, and charging capability by jumping to 800V tech. To say they're not competing is silly, they're definitely cross shopped at this point.

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[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Price wise, they are dabbling in that category absolutely. Sure, the base model Soterra is beating everyone by providing AWD at a low price. But the Touring is 52K. You can get an Ioniq 5 SEL awd with 320 hp for 53K. You're going to lose a few frills going to the SEL trim Ioniq, but you gain significant range, power, and charging capability by jumping to 800V tech. To say they're not competing is silly, they're definitely cross shopped at this point.

The Solterra is not meant to be sporty. Its competitors are the ID.4 and Ariya, etc. Mundane, Eeyors. Not a hatchback with 800v platform.

[chanomatik]

Obviously for marketing, but it's still fun to see myself reacting to instant torque: "Oooh yeah."

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Obviously for marketing, but it's still fun to see myself reacting to instant torque: "Oooh yeah."

http://youtu.be/sREsYEFQrOI?

I like your straw hat.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

The Solterra is not meant to be sporty. Its competitors are the ID.4 and Ariya, etc. Mundane, Eeyors. Not a hatchback with 800v platform.

Who is buying these cars?

Me.

I test drove all of the above except the Solterra because the offering is sub-par for the price. The ID.4 and Ariya were close, but each had detractors. The Ariya was similar in price, but had a weird throttle programming - it really didn't let you access the power until like 20-30 mph. My old Leaf was the same, so I think this is a Nissan thing. The ID.4 was direct competition for the Ioniq5 in driving feel and overall fit/finish, but there were no deals so it was too expensive.

No doubt, some will go shop for a Solterra and buy it because it's a "subaru". I'm done with that game. I have only bought a repeat brand one time in my life and it was buying an Outback after owning a WRX. The outback was such a letdown in the long run, despite thinking it was great in the moment when we bought it.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Who is buying these cars?

Me.

I test drove all of the above except the Solterra because the offering is sub-par for the price. The ID.4 and Ariya were close, but each had detractors. The Ariya was similar in price, but had a weird throttle programming - it really didn't let you access the power until like 20-30 mph. My old Leaf was the same, so I think this is a Nissan thing. The ID.4 was direct competition for the Ioniq5 in driving feel and overall fit/finish, but there were no deals so it was too expensive.

No doubt, some will go shop for a Solterra and buy it because it's a "subaru". I'm done with that game. I have only bought a repeat brand one time in my life and it was buying an Outback after owning a WRX. The outback was such a letdown in the long run, despite thinking it was great in the moment when we bought it.

We were discussing the need for more HP/Tq. It's not necessary for the segment. The Forester and Outback are slower than the Solterra. The ID.4 and Ariya are slower than the Solterra, depending on spec.

A 6.x second CUV is plenty of power for most buyers. And, 0-60 is not what sells CUVs.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

We were discussing the need for more HP/Tq. It's not necessary for the segment. The Forester and Outback are slower than the Solterra. The ID.4 and Ariya are slower than the Solterra, depending on spec.

A 6.x second CUV is plenty of power for most buyers. And, 0-60 is not what sells CUVs.

My stance does not change. For the price of the high trims, it's too slow, especially with the other negatives like charging speed and range.

It's just sub par. I know you have one and you're excited about it, but it's not a segment leader. The only thing it leads is being the cheapest thing to offer awd. That's it. I owned one of those EV's at one point, the Leaf. I enjoyed it. It was great, but it wasn't a segment leader and I only bought it because it was dirt cheap. Pretty much the cheapest thing you could buy with the range that I had (leaf plus). But it had a lot of drawbacks, like aged charging ports. Eventually I replaced it with something that has industry leading tech, for not much more than it would have cost to get a Solterra (actually, the lease deals available at the time were the same).

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

My stance does not change. For the price of the high trims, it's too slow, especially with the other negatives like charging speed and range.

It's just sub par. I know you have one and you're excited about it, but it's not a segment leader. The only thing it leads is being the cheapest thing to offer awd. That's it. I owned one of those EV's at one point, the Leaf. I enjoyed it. It was great, but it wasn't a segment leader and I only bought it because it was dirt cheap. Pretty much the cheapest thing you could buy with the range that I had (leaf plus). But it had a lot of drawbacks, like aged charging ports. Eventually I replaced it with something that has industry leading tech, for not much more than it would have cost to get a Solterra (actually, the lease deals available at the time were the same).

I am not excited about it. Actually, my wife drives it daily as I am trying to keep the miles off our Model Y. I can WFH a lot, or take the train into the office.

It's a mediocre EV but a pretty good CUV. I just am saying that it feels perfectly quick enough for what it is, and for the typical Subaru/Toyota/Nissan/VW buyer it will be quicker than their expectations.

Yes, it is expensive, but the deals are making it the best car to lease at the moment.

[Kostamojen]

I'd buy one over a Crosstrek for this price...



And this isn't some remote dealer either, this is in the Bay Area.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

I'd buy one over a Crosstrek for this price...

And this isn't some remote dealer either, this is in the Bay Area.

It's a much better car than a Crosstrek (I've had two). Quicker, larger, etc.

...but lease it.

[SCRAPPYDO]

EV should only be leased. The short range and long charging times means you simply will NOT put many miles on. A lease just makes sense on a heavily depreciating asset. Lease deals can had, and in some cases they are insane. Some GM EV's can be leased for as little as 45 bucks a month!!! (I have not read the fine print, but have seen the ads).

Happy buyingleasing and I hope you like whatever you get!

[chanomatik]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

"Very Toyota UI and interior."

Probably in agreement with that one.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

EV should only be leased. The short range and long charging times means you simply will NOT put many miles on. A lease just makes sense on a heavily depreciating asset. Lease deals can had, and in some cases they are insane. Some GM EV's can be leased for as little as 45 bucks a month!!! (I have not read the fine print, but have seen the ads).

Happy buyingleasing and I hope you like whatever you get!

Leasing is the way I went, and continue to recommend to people. At least when I "bought" our current Ioniq the manufacturers were still being very optimistic with the residual values, so payments were super low. At some point they're going to catch up.

We're still putting decent mileage on it. by the time we hit the 1 year mark, we'll probably have 8-9k miles on it, just from regional commuting. We got a 10k mile lease, so we're still coming in under the limit but I would like to try to up the miles a bit since we're paying for them.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

http://youtu.be/O-bE14MkciA?

"Very Toyota UI and interior."

Probably in agreement with that one.

It's by far the worst car I've owned, but it has some redeeming qualities. The ride is really nice, the back seat legroom allows me to fit a rear-facing convertible seat behind my 6'1 driver seat (Model Y can't, and now I don't need to buy a giant SUV), and I like the look from some angles. Outside of that, it's pretty bad. I had an acquaintance lease one, and I spent two good phone calls going over all of the issues to make sure she was fully aware before pulling the trigger. I've never had to do that with any Subaru, and I've been an Ambassador for ages.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

It's a much better car than a Crosstrek (I've had two). Quicker, larger, etc.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

It's by far the worst car I've owned, but it has some redeeming qualities.

What happened over the past 5 months?

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

What happened over the past 5 months?

Haha. The Solterra is a better "car" than the Crosstrek, in terms of performance, space, etc.

BUT...the overall user experience is worse.

Toyota's infotainment and app are miserable. The car has trouble connecting to our phones for CarPlay. It's hit or miss. The app and initial set up were terrible. If you have two users they can't have the same app experience, so we use the same log in profile on the app, and let the car figure out our driver profiles based solely on the key fob.

S-Pedal (Highest level of One Pedal Driving) dangerously deactivates under braking when the car is cold, or the moon is out, or the sun is shinning. When it turns off you need to use the paddles to set lower regen settings. Those one pedal experiences are worse. They aren't as linear as S-Pedal.

I have a constant loud hum, over 38mph, that apparently other owners don't have. I am pending a Subaru appointment to have that looked at. My throttle pedal vibrates slightly.

So, on my 60 minute commute in traffic (each way) I am just constantly pissed off.

[dwf137]

Heard a lot of complaints about the Toyota interface. Sounds frustrating. They were pretty much the last major manufacturer to go aa/cp so it's not surprising that they're like a decade behind in UX.

I absolutely hate the wireless AA/CP systems. Not sure if that's what the Soterra has or not, but if so, it's probably just that. They suck in every car I've had them. Wired is 100% the way to go. Better phone battery life, better user experience. Sure, you've gotta take the 3-1/2 seconds to grab a cord and plug in, but it's sooo worth it. Our Ioniq is wired only and I am thankful.

Our leaf had the reduced deceleration thing when it was fully charged, not sure I noticed it much in the cold. It was frustrating and made for an inconsistent driving experience, so I can totally get that. Our Ioniq doesn't have that issue, it seems to use the same amount of deceleration, but on the screen I can see it's doing less regeneration and thus using more brake. I think their algorithm must be more focused on the deceleration rate rather than regeneration rate.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Heard a lot of complaints about the Toyota interface. Sounds frustrating. They were pretty much the last major manufacturer to go aa/cp so it's not surprising that they're like a decade behind in UX.

I absolutely hate the wireless AA/CP systems. Not sure if that's what the Soterra has or not, but if so, it's probably just that. They suck in every car I've had them. Wired is 100% the way to go. Better phone battery life, better user experience. Sure, you've gotta take the 3-1/2 seconds to grab a cord and plug in, but it's sooo worth it. Our Ioniq is wired only and I am thankful.

Our leaf had the reduced deceleration thing when it was fully charged, not sure I noticed it much in the cold. It was frustrating and made for an inconsistent driving experience, so I can totally get that. Our Ioniq doesn't have that issue, it seems to use the same amount of deceleration, but on the screen I can see it's doing less regeneration and thus using more brake. I think their algorithm must be more focused on the deceleration rate rather than regeneration rate.

My Crosstrek PHEV had wired AA/CP and it wouldn't work half the time. My Solterra has wireless and it connects, well, lately it has been good about it. But I've had it not connect and then you keep pressing connect and it won't for an entire drive. Plus, it asks me everyday if it's allowed to connect to my phone. YES!

I don't mind regen being limited when the car is initially cold and then eventually working fully. Teslas used to do that (today they friction blend via OPD). The Solterra will drive along in S-Pedal and then *DING* unavailable. I have been in bumper to bumper trafffic, steep downhills, or on a clover leaf exit where I need to control my speed and it turns off while braking. So dangerous.

Then a few minutes later you can turn it back on. And it will turn off a bit later.

Some 60 min commutes it turns off 6 times. Other commutes it works 100% of the time.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I absolutely hate the wireless AA/CP systems. Not sure if that's what the Soterra has or not, but if so, it's probably just that. They suck in every car I've had them. Wired is 100% the way to go. Better phone battery life, better user experience. Sure, you've gotta take the 3-1/2 seconds to grab a cord and plug in, but it's sooo worth it. Our Ioniq is wired only and I am thankful.

that's so weird. my experience has been exactly the opposite.

sure, the battery takes a hit, but it's less than 10% an hour, which if I'm on teams calls through it for work, it'll suck battery faster for that. it's an acceptable drop.

I turn the car on, it connects. it stays in my pocket, it just works. easy peasy. maybe 1 out of 100 times I have to fiddle with it to make it work. far easier than fishing my phone out of my pocket, plugging it in, and then remembering to grab it when I get out.

other than that, whether the phone is plugged in, or wireless, it has the same functionality, and at the same speed.

maybe it's an iPhone thing?

[Brahmzy]

If the Solterra multimedia tech is anything like the Highlander I rented a year ago, it must be horrendous. Garbage stuff. I thought Subaru's was bad (and it is.)

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

If the Solterra multimedia tech is anything like the Highlander I rented a year ago, it must be horrendous. Garbage stuff. I thought Subaru's was bad (and it is.)

It is 100% a Toyota system, so probably the same.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Originally Posted by samagon

that's so weird. my experience has been exactly the opposite.

sure, the battery takes a hit, but it's less than 10% an hour, which if I'm on teams calls through it for work, it'll suck battery faster for that. it's an acceptable drop.

I turn the car on, it connects. it stays in my pocket, it just works. easy peasy. maybe 1 out of 100 times I have to fiddle with it to make it work. far easier than fishing my phone out of my pocket, plugging it in, and then remembering to grab it when I get out.

other than that, whether the phone is plugged in, or wireless, it has the same functionality, and at the same speed.

maybe it's an iPhone thing?

Same experience pretty much here. I have it on my Civic and it works 90% of the time. It will always connect when I start up the car but will sometimes disconnect while driving. It will usually reconnect quickly when it happens but on occasion I will have to reselect it from the head unit to restart it. If I'm driving a long distance I'll use wired just to keep the battery charged. I do have wireless charging too but I find it just barely keeps up with the battery drain from using wireless AA.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by samagon

that's so weird. my experience has been exactly the opposite.

sure, the battery takes a hit, but it's less than 10% an hour, which if I'm on teams calls through it for work, it'll suck battery faster for that. it's an acceptable drop.

I turn the car on, it connects. it stays in my pocket, it just works. easy peasy. maybe 1 out of 100 times I have to fiddle with it to make it work. far easier than fishing my phone out of my pocket, plugging it in, and then remembering to grab it when I get out.

other than that, whether the phone is plugged in, or wireless, it has the same functionality, and at the same speed.

maybe it's an iPhone thing?

Android.

It's having 2 drivers. Unlike most people, we do not have his and her cars (aside from my bmw which she won't drive). It gets confused as to what phone to connect to when we drive together. I'll jump in the car after my wife was driving and it'll connect to her phone in the house, but I'm the only one leaving. It seems like more than 10%/hr for me. Road trips, it's just overcooking the phone because you need to charge and run wifi simultaneously.

Sometimes it works just fine, but the times it doesn't work are frustrating and it's just so much easier to take a few seconds to plug in.

[zlevchgre000]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Haha. The Solterra is a better "car" than the Crosstrek, in terms of performance, space, etc.

BUT...the overall user experience is worse.

Toyota's infotainment and app are miserable. The car has trouble connecting to our phones for CarPlay. It's hit or miss. The app and initial set up were terrible. If you have two users they can't have the same app experience, so we use the same log in profile on the app, and let the car figure out our driver profiles based solely on the key fob.

S-Pedal (Highest level of One Pedal Driving) dangerously deactivates under braking when the car is cold, or the moon is out, or the sun is shinning. When it turns off you need to use the paddles to set lower regen settings. Those one pedal experiences are worse. They aren't as linear as S-Pedal.

I have a constant loud hum, over 38mph, that apparently other owners don't have. I am pending a Subaru appointment to have that looked at. My throttle pedal vibrates slightly.

So, on my 60 minute commute in traffic (each way) I am just constantly pissed off.

Our Solterra had its rear motor replaced at 45k. I noticed the noise at 20k miles and had it inspected a year earlier but the noise was quiet enough that I could not prove it. FYI

[Goempie]

New BZ4X facelift is presented in Europe, new batteries ( one smaller and one bigger) from panasonic with higher energy density and better electric motors is presented last week. They AWD version has now 345 hp.

Also a new model for toyota, full electric, is presented. The C-HR+. Real nice car, same new BZ4x specs but a bit smaller. Real nice exterior. Think it will also come as a Subaru.