Subaru "S210" Prototype Unveiled

[Straight6]

This is fantastic! I hope they decide to bring it here.

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[Russ_G93]

Lest we forget about 2013 Subaru Impreza WRX STi A-Line. An Automatic STI with DCCD, Featuring a 5spd Tiptronic.

[Kostamojen]

Don't forget the Impreza GT back in what, 2009?

[Kostamojen]

Dewey's podcast discussing the S210...

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Completely disagree. S model parts where bespoke and in Japan up until a certain point in tbe 10s you needed a vin to get parts. If you say STI anywhere in the world people know you’re referring to the Impreza sti. Sure they made a deal forester and legacy STI along the way, but those “sti” trim models where always just cosmetics and minor performance parts. This S209 is way way off the scale of what Subaru does. 5 years ago it would be unheard of to think they’d do something like this

That doesn't matter to JDM. Never has.


"Just cosmetics"?

Hmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRB2I_Lg8o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRB2I_Lg8o

STI touched a lot of things. They are STIs. They even touched the Exiga.

I just think it's funny America got ONE STi and that must mean that is ALL they are.

[subySerb]

Originally Posted by Gixhost

This is the reason I think Subaru should have never separated the WRX from the Impreza. How many base Civics are sold to people dreaming of owning an Si or Type R? How many people settle for a Pentastar Challenger but wanted a Scat Pack? How many Impreza are rolling around doing their best impression of a WRX. Those dreaming of the car they can't quite afford settle for the one they can and return to the brand when they can get their dream vehicle.

Acura renamed their vehicles and axed the Integra/RSX in an attempt to move up market even when they knew the younger buyers who could afford these vehicles were very likely to return to the brand as their income increased. And 16 years later...still failing to position their brand higher...what did we get...an Integra again...

Fully agree on Subaru not needing to separate WRX from the Impreza.
And I was one of those that bought an Impreza 2.5i in 2007 because I couldn't afford a WRX, but came back in 2014 and got a WRX.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

That doesn't matter to JDM. Never has.


"Just cosmetics"?

Hmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRB2I_Lg8o

STI touched a lot of things. They are STIs. They even touched the Exiga.

I just think it's funny America got ONE STi and that must mean that is ALL they are.

Not sure if you read what I said. I literally said STI did a legacy and forester. Those where Japan only. They slap sti sport badges on cars now like m sport badges, those are not real STIs.

[rallly 4]

Yes referring to STI trim models such as the Sti badged VBs and other cars they've made since. Trust me my friend I know STI like the back of my hand. I've owned over a dozen of them.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Not sure if you read what I said. I literally said STI did a legacy and forester. Those where Japan only. They slap sti sport badges on cars now like m sport badges, those are not real STIs.

You said "JUST cosmetics and MINOR performance...". Did you not watch the video? Folks arguably think the Forester STi was better than the Impreza STi. The others were developed by STi.....they are STIs. Regardless of their ultimate capabilities.

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Yes referring to STI trim models such as the Sti badged VBs and other cars they've made since. Trust me my friend I know STI like the back of my hand. I've owned over a dozen of them.

Again. The ONE(Impreza) STi line USDM got and you're an expert? Arrogant Americans.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Again. The ONE(Impreza) STi line USDM got and you're an expert? Arrogant Americans.

Once again, “defensive Americans worshipping at the alter of a corporation.”

[chanomatik]

Nah, it's a narrow-mindedness specific to Americans. Subaru separated the STI from the WRX and made it it's own car for the VA, and suddenly every American thinks an STI can only ever be that one thing. Just like the WRX STI "S210" Prototype in Japan having a CVT. The WRX (S4) has only ever had a CVT in Japan since the VA, so the WRX STI having a CVT isn't shocking to the market where it's sold.

People's minds melt when they learn the Impreza in Japan was offered with FWD. It's an uphill battle trying to educate Americans on differing views, regardless of state or country affiliation. Forest for trees and all that.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Nah, it's a narrow-mindedness specific to Americans. Subaru separated the STI from the WRX and made it it's own car for the VA, and suddenly every American thinks an STI can only ever be that one thing. Just like the WRX STI "S210" Prototype in Japan having a CVT. The WRX (S4) has only ever had a CVT in Japan since the VA, so the WRX STI having a CVT isn't shocking to the market where it's sold.

People's minds melt when they learn the Impreza in Japan was offered with FWD. It's an uphill battle trying to educate Americans on differing views, regardless of state or country affiliation. Forest for trees and all that.

You do know that the first gen Impreza in the US was offered in FWD with AWD being an option, right? FWD went away for the second gen because it didn't make financial sense to continue offering FWD in the US.

Brat, SVX, Legacy/Outback were offered in the US as FWD with AWD being an option as well.

Related - Toyota offered AWD (All-Trac) Corollas, Camrys & Celica's at the same time Subaru was offering FWD cars in the US.

[Gixhost]

Lets all go on a short journey.

https://www.sti.jp/en/about/introduction/

STI is and always has been STI. Although they did change the "I" from lower case to an uppercase letter. :P

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

You do know that the first gen Impreza in the US was offered in FWD with AWD being an option, right? FWD went away for the second gen because it didn't make financial sense to continue offering FWD in the US.

It was actually a marketing decision. They decided in 96 to make the company the "all AWD" brand, and leaned into that 90's Outback marketing with Paul Hogan.

The FWD cars had relatively good sales prior to that. I have a chart if you need it.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

You said "JUST cosmetics and MINOR performance...". Did you not watch the video? Folks arguably think the Forester STi was better than the Impreza STi. The others were developed by STi.....they are STIs. Regardless of their ultimate capabilities.






Again. The ONE(Impreza) STi line USDM got and you're an expert? Arrogant Americans.

Completely disagree. S model parts where bespoke and in Japan up until a certain point in tbe 10s you needed a vin to get parts. If you say STI anywhere in the world people know you’re referring to the Impreza sti. Sure they made a deal forester and legacy STI along the way, but those “sti” trim models where always just cosmetics and minor performance parts. This S209 is way way off the scale of what Subaru does. 5 years ago it would be unheard of to think they’d do something like this

"sure they made a deal forester and legacy sti along the way" AKA REAL DEAL forester STi and legacy along the way. The next sentance those "sti" trim models. TRIM MODELS. I wasn't calling the forester and legacy trim models I was referring to the BS models they made later with STI badging and logos that where pretty much cosmetic and minor performance slap ons.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

You said "JUST cosmetics and MINOR performance...". Did you not watch the video? Folks arguably think the Forester STi was better than the Impreza STi. The others were developed by STi.....they are STIs. Regardless of their ultimate capabilities.






Again. The ONE(Impreza) STi line USDM got and you're an expert? Arrogant Americans.

Not arrogant at all my friend. I have been to Japan more times than I can count and have actually driven the forester STI, and even drove a legacy S402 that a friend owned at the time. In the 90s to early 2k it was just the impreza STI. Japanese enthusiasts hear the name STI or "IMP" as some of them call it and think of one car. the Impreza STi from the first to the hawkeye. I am an expert and know more about these cars especially the heritage and history of STI than just about anybody. Have you ever owned a single STI product here?

and I've owned 323 GTXs, Celica all tracs, Legacy SS turbos, Galant VR4s, just about every rally esque car sold in the states I have owned.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Nah, it's a narrow-mindedness specific to Americans. Subaru separated the STI from the WRX and made it it's own car for the VA, and suddenly every American thinks an STI can only ever be that one thing. Just like the WRX STI "S210" Prototype in Japan having a CVT. The WRX (S4) has only ever had a CVT in Japan since the VA, so the WRX STI having a CVT isn't shocking to the market where it's sold.

People's minds melt when they learn the Impreza in Japan was offered with FWD. It's an uphill battle trying to educate Americans on differing views, regardless of state or country affiliation. Forest for trees and all that.

Except 99% of people including the Japanese owners don't look at the S210 prototype as an STI. They're just like here and same thing with europeans you say STI and they all know your referring to the impreza STI.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Nah, it's a narrow-mindedness specific to Americans. Subaru separated the STI from the WRX and made it it's own car for the VA, and suddenly every American thinks an STI can only ever be that one thing. Just like the WRX STI "S210" Prototype in Japan having a CVT. The WRX (S4) has only ever had a CVT in Japan since the VA, so the WRX STI having a CVT isn't shocking to the market where it's sold.

People's minds melt when they learn the Impreza in Japan was offered with FWD. It's an uphill battle trying to educate Americans on differing views, regardless of state or country affiliation. Forest for trees and all that.

You lost me at separated the STi from the WRX.
I see one today and think “Impreza”. That “we are separating it” blah blah was always pure manure, with peanuts in it.

“STi” now means appearance packages and such

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Completely disagree. S model parts where bespoke and in Japan up until a certain point in tbe 10s you needed a vin to get parts. If you say STI anywhere in the world people know you’re referring to the Impreza sti. Sure they made a deal forester and legacy STI along the way, but those “sti” trim models where always just cosmetics and minor performance parts. This S209 is way way off the scale of what Subaru does. 5 years ago it would be unheard of to think they’d do something like this

"sure they made a deal forester and legacy sti along the way" AKA REAL DEAL forester STi and legacy along the way. The next sentance those "sti" trim models. TRIM MODELS. I wasn't calling the forester and legacy trim models I was referring to the BS models they made later with STI badging and logos that where pretty much cosmetic and minor performance slap ons.

Apologies. But, that wasn't a "next sentence" when there is a comma. But, your "sure they made...." just backs my point.

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Not arrogant at all my friend. I have been to Japan more times than I can count and have actually driven the forester STI, and even drove a legacy S402 that a friend owned at the time. In the 90s to early 2k it was just the impreza STI. Japanese enthusiasts hear the name STI or "IMP" as some of them call it and think of one car. the Impreza STi from the first to the hawkeye. I am an expert and know more about these cars especially the heritage and history of STI than just about anybody. Have you ever owned a single STI product here?

and I've owned 323 GTXs, Celica all tracs, Legacy SS turbos, Galant VR4s, just about every rally esque car sold in the states I have owned.

I had the first STi in TN. Then got an '08. Then had a '09 WRX. Turbo Baja is my only "fun" car at the moment as I was in line for the now dead(American) STI.

Originally Posted by Gixhost

Lets all go on a short journey.

https://www.sti.jp/en/about/introduction/

STI is and always has been STI. Although they did change the "I" from lower case to an uppercase letter. :P

Exactly

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

It was actually a marketing decision. They decided in 96 to make the company the "all AWD" brand, and leaned into that 90's Outback marketing with Paul Hogan.

The FWD cars had relatively good sales prior to that. I have a chart if you need it.

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

You do know that the first gen Impreza in the US was offered in FWD with AWD being an option, right? FWD went away for the second gen because it didn't make financial sense to continue offering FWD in the US.

Brat, SVX, Legacy/Outback were offered in the US as FWD with AWD being an option as well.

Related - Toyota offered AWD (All-Trac) Corollas, Camrys & Celica's at the same time Subaru was offering FWD cars in the US.

JDM FWD Impreza available in the 2010s. IIRC with a 1.6L

And Outback has never been FWD.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Pre

Once again, “defensive Americans worshipping at the alter of a corporation.”

Would rather be a defensive one than an arrogant one. Seeing how Americans can act overseas is embarrassing.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Would rather be a defensive one than an arrogant one. Seeing how Americans can act overseas is embarrassing.

i mean... I think that's what pre was getting at. Ignorant, arrogant... the world must revolve around us and OUR sti experience.

maybe i'm missreading pre's post.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Apologies. But, that wasn't a "next sentence" when there is a comma. But, your "sure they made...." just backs my point.



I had the first STi in TN. Then got an '08. Then had a '09 WRX. Turbo Baja is my only "fun" car at the moment as I was in line for the now dead(American) STI.



Exactly






JDM FWD Impreza available in the 2010s. IIRC with a 1.6L

And Outback has never been FWD.

Yup I got to pay more attention when I'm writing on forums , I see where I made some confusion.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Would rather be a defensive one than an arrogant one. Seeing how Americans can act overseas is embarrassing.

Arrogant? No, it’s called the truth. The truth isn’t some concocted deal, it’s real. 100p. On a stack

And this has nothing to do with Americans “overseas” whatsoever. Was that your attempt at a pivot? Nah, go pack your lunch again.

A number of us “members” here have stuck around. I can remember McRae flipping a Boobaru, LIVE, and then finishing the course. As well as his Rally Stages I could get on “Speedvision.” Now there is a channel Gen Z knows zero about. Colin didn’t live to 40. We were watching live. We know what Subaru Technica International means.

You’re so busy in defensive mode, you forgot where you’re at with the “arrgoance”. STi is a sticker now. A vinyl sticker or some trim pieces. This is not the same mf’ing company that was innovating and paying “the” Scot to drive their car. Any attempt to defend, or whatever it is that you do, is a fools errand. You can call me whatever you want. Arrogant or a fool I am not.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by Pre

Arrogant? No, it’s called the truth. The truth isn’t some concocted deal, it’s real. 100p. On a stack

And this has nothing to do with Americans “overseas” whatsoever. Was that your attempt at a pivot? Nah, go pack your lunch again.

A number of us “members” here have stuck around. I can remember McRae flipping a Boobaru, LIVE, and then finishing the course. As well as his Rally Stages I could get on “Speedvision.” Now there is a channel Gen Z knows zero about. Colin didn’t live to 40. We were watching live. We know what Subaru Technica International means.

You’re so busy in defensive mode, you forgot where you’re at with the “arrgoance”. STi is a sticker now. A vinyl sticker or some trim pieces. This is not the same mf’ing company that was innovating and paying “the” Scot to drive their car. Any attempt to defend, or whatever it is that you do, is a fools errand. You can call me whatever you want. Arrogant or a fool I am not.

McRae, Argentina 1998: Bent the hell out of the right rear arm coming off a jump, had, I don't know, ~45º of toe-out on the right rear, it was bent so bad that they couldn't get the wheel off. Decided to drive the car until the tire blew, they got to the next time control point on three wheels, without the tire in the way they could now remove the wheel, McRae removed the arm, Grist & McRae bashed it with some large rocks on the side of the road until it was "good enough" reinstalled it, put the spare on; not only finished the stage, but posted the best time for that leg.

There was another "3-wheel" incident I remember as well, at a windy uphill section of a tarmac course in the wet, he hit a stone wall a bit too hard and broke the spokes of a rear wheel, the barrel and tire rolled away, didn't stop, just finished the stage with three wheels, pretty sure he posted the best time on that leg as well.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

[...]This New SPT has been tuned (Maybe even Reworked idk) for the 296Hp Number - Still 277 ft lbs. [...]

Subaru hasn't reworked a single thing in the HTCVT/SPT. Again, not a single thing.
USDM Ascent peak torque has been sitting at 277 from day one; the HTCVT/SPT has always been able to deal with that torque figure.
Only 2 parameters really matter as far as the transaxle is concerned: maximum engine torque and maximum engine RPM at the input shaft.
From these 2 params you can work out max allowable engine peak power for that transaxle.