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Old 09-08-2021, 01:34 PM   #3626
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Trades STI in on a Tesla and joins NASIOC to tell us. Is that a Texas thing? Scrap?
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:06 PM   #3627
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder how many Subaru buyers are switching to Teslas.
The idea is certainly front of mind for myself. I am strongly considering a Model 3 for my next car. I really like my WRX but may go EV.
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:29 PM   #3628
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Trades STI in on a Tesla and joins NASIOC to tell us. Is that a Texas thing? Scrap?
I believe his son owned it (wonít go into details unless he wants to) and he inherited the car. Took vet and traded in for Tesla.

But yeah, I get your point.
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:38 PM   #3629
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder how many Subaru buyers are switching to Teslas.
I can't imagine a lot relative to any other of the Japanese brands. Tesla is more eating at the luxury brand sales.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:12 PM   #3630
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder how many Subaru buyers are switching to Teslas.
Well I have started seeing a lot of Model 3's with RA Mudflaps
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:40 PM   #3631
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Originally Posted by cbk57 View Post
The idea is certainly front of mind for myself. I am strongly considering a Model 3 for my next car. I really like my WRX but may go EV.
We sold our Tribeca and got a MYP, which is one helluva upgrade. It slays my bugeye w/o even trying. I've no doubt that you'll love a M3, especially the Performance.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:05 PM   #3632
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The idea is certainly front of mind for myself. I am strongly considering a Model 3 for my next car. I really like my WRX but may go EV.
I'm on the fence as well. Problem is I don't want a tesla, and there's not much else super compelling on the EV front. Patiently awaiting some mfr to come out with an affordable EV that's not some boring CUV, but it doesn't seem to be happening, at least not yet. 2024 until the earliest VW will put out an ID.3R, and who the heck knows if VWoA golden parachute executives will let us buy one.
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Old 09-08-2021, 05:20 PM   #3633
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Why would you want to spend 50k on an appliance? M3P weighs what my AWD truck does. I can't believe some of y'all are even on the fence. About to be an avalanche of EV's on the market. Right now, get your ICE 6MT sorted out before they die off.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:29 PM   #3634
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Lucas English the owner of English Racing and well known tuner of DSM, evo's, sti's and GTR's and builds and tunes the ETS record breaking cars has a Model 3 Performance. He drag race the car and has hundreds of passes and he also run his car at the road course and is faster than his old Evo.

Josh the owner of Import Image racing has a Model 3 Performance and has a Model S Plaid on order that will be delivered next week.

These are people that have been in the car business for decades and people that can appreciate all cars. Not some dude talking about how he is a car an enthusiast.

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Old 09-08-2021, 08:45 PM   #3635
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Why would you want to spend 50k on an appliance? M3P weighs what my AWD truck does. I can't believe some of y'all are even on the fence. About to be an avalanche of EV's on the market. Right now, get your ICE 6MT sorted out before they die off.
I'm with you. Get a simple, affordable EV, and then get an engaging, manual, sporty car with an actual exhaust note. No need to spend so much money on 0-60 bragging rights, poor fit and finish, and long charge times for 300 miles of range, including limited routing for road trips.

I'd consider a sub-$30k Tesla. For that price my expectations wouldn't be too high.
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Old 09-08-2021, 09:28 PM   #3636
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post


Lucas English the owner of English Racing and well known tuner of DSM, evo's, sti's and GTR's and builds and tunes the ETS record breaking cars has a Model 3 Performance. He drag race the car and has hundreds of passes and he also run his car at the road course and is faster than his old Evo.

Josh the owner of Import Image racing has a Model 3 Performance and has a Model S Plaid on order that will be delivered next week.

These are people that have been in the car business for decades and people that can appreciate all cars. Not some dude talking about how he is a car an enthusiast.
Please note how those people still own ICE vehicles and still appreciate them. You on the other hand, seem to only appreciate EV and crap on anything but.
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:50 PM   #3637
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Why would you want to spend 50k on an appliance? M3P weighs what my AWD truck does. I can't believe some of y'all are even on the fence. About to be an avalanche of EV's on the market. Right now, get your ICE 6MT sorted out before they die off.
I won't spend that money on an appliance... honestly, if tesla had a less-spartan interior, I may have given one a look, but that stupid tablet only interface means I will never own one.

used 6mt cars will be around for some time. I'm not going to be obsessed with paying msrp, or even invoice, for a car. I'll wait till like year 4 when they've dropped substantially in value, yet still aren't totally beat and someone else can pay the initial depreciation. Plus, if I'm honest, I'd much rather wait 5 years until I drop childcare costs, and get myself something I truly want, like a porsche, than settle for something that I could better shoehorn into my current budget like a brz.

but I would love to drop the outback and get something somewhat fun to drive that both the wife and I can drive - that means no MT. If I'm going no MT, it might as well be an EV. Just want something that's a better full package. I know they're coming, but they're quite a few years out still.
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Old 09-09-2021, 02:06 AM   #3638
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A mouthbreather in a TM3 tried to avoid a bicyclist in his lane by speeding up and going around into oncoming traffic nearly hitting my wife head on.

So that's it. Tesla drivers officially made the list:




Vaccines and masks and perimeter walls on our homes won't save us from them.
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Old 09-09-2021, 04:19 AM   #3639
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'm with you. Get a simple, affordable EV, and then get an engaging, manual, sporty car with an actual exhaust note. No need to spend so much money on 0-60 bragging rights, poor fit and finish, and long charge times for 300 miles of range, including limited routing for road trips.

I'd consider a sub-$30k Tesla. For that price my expectations wouldn't be too high.
Engagement is the key. Thatís where the magic happens. No EV, no matter how fast in a straight line, can replace a manual transmission, sports/performance car. Iíve driven every major model Tethla and in the corners, you feel the weight, every time. I donít like heavy cars, never have. But you have the right point. EVís make for great DD, when they are relatively INEXPENSIVE compared to todayís offerings. I spent total on my EV, $19,700 and thatís leasing it and buying it from them, all in, with interest, etc. At that kind of price, for what it is, makes perfect sense for my needs and even my range requirements for a DD. And itís 1000 pounds lighter. But either way, EVís make sense when they are more affordable as you pointed out. A fancy appliance is still an appliance at the end of the day. I think all these MSRPís are laughable. A C8 isnít worth 80k to me, and neither is any current Tesla. ďOh it can do this and that! And itís hella fast in a straight line!Ē Wow, my Nissan EV, for my needs, does exactly what I need it to for 30k less. And that happens to be the price for a brand new BRZ. And while not fast in a straight line, was designed from the ground up to corner, refuel quickly, and offer total engagement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Please note how those people still own ICE vehicles and still appreciate them. You on the other hand, seem to only appreciate EV and crap on anything but.
Iíve had an EV for 7.5 years now. So I own both. Let people in their cult whine. I donít care who is buying what, not my money. But as a long time EV owner now, ahead of most, I sure can give my opinion to those who havenít made the transition yet. Buying something today Iíd still buy a Leaf over a Tesla or wait for new offerings that are just around the corner from every manu out there. As economies of scale hits, prices will go down.

EVís make a great DD but I think buying 50k (hell 40k) DDís is stupid. I think the better way to go is something like a Honda Fit (or an EV equivalent when it comes) for a DD. Something economical in purchase price as it is with fuel economy. Fit donít work for family, then size it up to what is adequate. I mean itís a DD. Itís going to sit in traffic, go to the grocery store, necessity based driving, etc. Mundane, stupid driving (especially today where Covid has people driving the worst since the automobile was invented) why do people want to spend big $ on this? Itís the lamest driving there is and the vehicle is going to get scratched, nicked, even with clearbra on the entire front end. DD should be economical that frees $ up for a 2nd car that can be the fun machine. Something that is engaging to drive, and built to corner. In my twisties, any EV is not going to be as engaging and youíll get stuck out there as there are no Chademo chargers and what not. And driving briskly you burn through juice extremely quick so whatever range they quote goes right out the window. So either the twisty drive gets cut in half, or 1/4 or I get stuck and need to be towed.

I like the Teslas I have driven. But they, like many vehicles on the market, are just grossly overpriced. For 50k give me a nice clean used M2C. Thatís worth spending the big bank on because Iíd own it until death. I also look forward to old huckster delivering his promise of an affordable EV, and the like from the rest of the manus.
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Old 09-09-2021, 04:32 AM   #3640
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
A mouthbreather in a TM3 tried to avoid a bicyclist in his lane by speeding up and going around into oncoming traffic nearly hitting my wife head on.

So that's it. Tesla drivers officially made the list:


Vaccines and masks and perimeter walls on our homes won't save us from them.
Geez man. Sorry to hear. Glad she is alright. The driving around is equally horrendous. I try to get on the service road and people are doing 60-70 in a posted 50 mph zone. You have to wait for a break, then WFO. Get on the highway, people are in the slow lane going painfully slow. I saw 42 mph in a 70 mph zone yesterday. Then you try to move over into the next lane so you can go the speed limit and people are doing 90 mph, and donít have the skill required to drive as such speed. Then they swerve in and out of lanes. Then surface streets, same deal, people scorching the Earth because their bird sized brains canít deal with the pandemic. Theyíve got all the mod cons at home, a job, money. But they must have never, ever, had to deal with anything hardcore in life. They have a eff you deal with it attitude on these roads.

I see the same behavior here from many Tethla owners, especially if they know what a Leaf is. They all of a sudden, like the Rustang owners of old, must show me their performance. It used to be the BMW drivers were the biggest a hole drivers. Here itís the Tethlas, full size trucks, and large SUVís. For some reason the entitled are drawn to the same things.
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Old 09-09-2021, 08:11 AM   #3641
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Please note how those people still own ICE vehicles and still appreciate them. You on the other hand, seem to only appreciate EV and crap on anything but.
I like ICE cars and I have own a few really good ones that are specially known for their driver engagement, sound etc. I have built them with my own hand and set stupid drag racing records at the time, I road race them etc. I still like them and follow many of them but I can't buy something with inferior technology for myself. EV are the whole package, they provide better safety, efficiency, performance and they are the undeniable future.

I see a few poster complaining about price mainly. It just feels like the same usual argument that really comes down to their financial situation. A similar argument as the cast vs forged wheels for example. Even if forged wheels are undeniably better I will get cast wheels because their good enough, will do the job and they are priced lower.

Obviously people that are buying something like a Plaid could afford one of the best handling and most engaging cars on the road but they choose not too. Pre thinks is because they want to be noticed but all the Model S look the same since 2012 .

From that Edmunds review the good thing that I got was that the Plaid will get 3 miles less than the EPA range under real world conditions to 0% SOC. I wonder if it will go another 20 mile under 0% SOC like Model 3 LR. That really impressive with only 100 kWh battery pack and fairly wide summer tires.

As far the Tesla driver a mostly see senior people around my town driving Model 3's and Y's.....I guess their aren't know for their great driving. Hopefully FSD will happen one day .

Last edited by juanmedina; 09-09-2021 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 09-09-2021, 08:39 AM   #3642
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I've got a 2019 Model 3 Long Range AWD with the accel boost software, plus an NB Miata (5 speed manual) and a 2019 Mustang with the 2.3L and 6 speed manual.

The Model 3 corners as well as the Mustang does. It doesn't feel anywhere near as heavy as its 4000lb weight suggests. I had a 2017 Challenger with the manual and 5.7 liter. It weighed the same as my Model 3 but it felt like a boat with that big V8 in front and the big chassis. Do you get the engagement of a manual transmission? No, but you also don't have to wait on an ICE engine. Even my Challenger felt "laggy" waiting for the throttle to open up and the engine to get to peak torque, and that's a larger displacement V8.

Also the Model 3 has a lot of interior storage for what it is. Most of the time I just use the regular trunk area, but if you need to pack up the family you can pile stuff into the lower trunk compartment and use the frunk as well. It's easily has as much storage as many CUV's, albeit without the convenience of the hatch.
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Old 09-09-2021, 09:51 AM   #3643
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I spec'd out a bunch of CUVs for my wife:
Mach E (Premium ER) was 56k
Model Y (LR w/blue paint) was 55k
Highlander hybrid (XLE AWD) was 47k
Rav4 hybrid (XLE premium AWD) was 37k

S***s expensive yo; we're going to wait until the market settles a bit/there is more available inventory, by then the Kia/Hyundai EV offerings will be out so we can compare those too, and the Ioniq 5 looks to be a good option. Mach E is out, she just won't drive a Ford; I don't agree, but it's going to be her car. Rav4 is out, it's not large enough to handle the family trips w/two kids & their crap. Renting a minivan in our neck of the woods is ~$1,500/wk, we take two vacations a year, the math doesn't work out for the "just rent it" mentality considering our baseline needs, not to mention the limited availability of rentals in our area & the logistics which either add 2 days & a couple hundred bucks to rental for pickup & drop off days, or require a late departure and early return, which cuts into our vacation time.

I don't want a fleet of single use vehicles to maintain & insure, tops I want 4 vehicles on the road, but would prefer 3. That means at a minimum we need a family trip vehicle and a four seat/four door vehicle; third vehicle can be the fun one. I won't drive FWD or front-biased AWD, she doesn't really care, but if it's a CUV she wants some form of AWD. To the third/fun vehicle, I want 2+2, 6mt & RWD, the market doesn't have great options right now, it's Mustang/Camaro which are very heavy, or the upcoming BRZ which needs more cylinders or a power adder for me to buy one.

All that to say, if my wife likes the ~55k E-CUV w/5 second 0-60 better than a ~47k hybrid w/9 second 0-60, then it's worth it me. I'll even push for the 55k CUV for the times I have to drive the damn thing.

Could I make a bolt/Leaf work as my commuter? sure, but I'd hate every minute of the commute; I've driven both, they both suck, I prefer my wife's 6mt corolla hatch to both, but I wouldn't want that as a DD either; I just hate FF and I hate slow.

I wish Cadillac had made more CTS-V 6mt wagons.... it's heavy, but at least it's fun and versatile.
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Old 09-09-2021, 10:01 AM   #3644
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RAV4 is one of the most mediocre vehicles for sale today. I hate it and my wife even doesn't like it and she's no enthusiast. I would rather drive a Ford.
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Old 09-09-2021, 11:20 AM   #3645
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https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new...al-2021-09-09/

Quote:
. New York Governor Kathy Hochul on Wednesday signed into law a bill that sets a goal for all new passenger cars and light-duty trucks to be zero-emission models by 2035, joining the state of California in attempting to eliminate gasoline-powered vehicles.

The law directs setting regulations requiring higher numbers of zero-emission vehicles with a goal of "100% of in-state sales by 2035", and a similar target for medium-duty and heavy-duty vehicles by 2045 if feasible.
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Old 09-09-2021, 11:40 AM   #3646
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Please note how those people still own ICE vehicles and still appreciate them. You on the other hand, seem to only appreciate EV and crap on anything but.
I'm seeing a lot of EV haters especially the clueless kind in here.
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Old 09-09-2021, 11:55 AM   #3647
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I'm seeing a lot of EV haters especially the clueless kind in here.
right those with different opinions are clueless. Got it.

Oh man the hypocrisy.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:04 PM   #3648
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
I spec'd out a bunch of CUVs for my wife:
Mach E (Premium ER) was 56k
Model Y (LR w/blue paint) was 55k
Highlander hybrid (XLE AWD) was 47k
Rav4 hybrid (XLE premium AWD) was 37k

S***s expensive yo; we're going to wait until the market settles a bit/there is more available inventory, by then the Kia/Hyundai EV offerings will be out so we can compare those too, and the Ioniq 5 looks to be a good option. Mach E is out, she just won't drive a Ford; I don't agree, but it's going to be her car. Rav4 is out, it's not large enough to handle the family trips w/two kids & their crap. Renting a minivan in our neck of the woods is ~$1,500/wk, we take two vacations a year, the math doesn't work out for the "just rent it" mentality considering our baseline needs, not to mention the limited availability of rentals in our area & the logistics which either add 2 days & a couple hundred bucks to rental for pickup & drop off days, or require a late departure and early return, which cuts into our vacation time.

I don't want a fleet of single use vehicles to maintain & insure, tops I want 4 vehicles on the road, but would prefer 3. That means at a minimum we need a family trip vehicle and a four seat/four door vehicle; third vehicle can be the fun one. I won't drive FWD or front-biased AWD, she doesn't really care, but if it's a CUV she wants some form of AWD. To the third/fun vehicle, I want 2+2, 6mt & RWD, the market doesn't have great options right now, it's Mustang/Camaro which are very heavy, or the upcoming BRZ which needs more cylinders or a power adder for me to buy one.

All that to say, if my wife likes the ~55k E-CUV w/5 second 0-60 better than a ~47k hybrid w/9 second 0-60, then it's worth it me. I'll even push for the 55k CUV for the times I have to drive the damn thing.

Could I make a bolt/Leaf work as my commuter? sure, but I'd hate every minute of the commute; I've driven both, they both suck, I prefer my wife's 6mt corolla hatch to both, but I wouldn't want that as a DD either; I just hate FF and I hate slow.

I wish Cadillac had made more CTS-V 6mt wagons.... it's heavy, but at least it's fun and versatile.
Some points I'd add.

Commuters... like Leaf? The Leaf... yea I feel you seriously boring. The Bolt is in heavy recall and are not safe to buy used, their production is halted. Hell, I'd avoid anything with LG batteries right now, and that's a lot of current cars Hyundai, Ford, GM... so it's tough to choose a clear winner from that group. The BMW i3 s is actually the only tiny short range BEV I'd drive or buy used. I would not buy one of those new as they're incredibly overpriced and avoid the early cars if they haven't had their updates. A new i3 s can run right up to 50K lmao... BMW are on drugs.

There's no point to a PHEV, aka hybrid because its really an ICE vehicle. Toyota made the wrong gamble on Hydrogen and they are actively lobbying to delay the transition to EV. Sore losers... they are way way behind on BEV, aka battery electric.

Mach E? Maybe in a few years, wait for Ford to figure their **** out. Visit the Mach E forums to read up on the level of critical issues, dealer network fails, and false advertising aka vehicles not hitting advertised metrics. Watch the Munro videos and judge for yourself if the huge excess and lazy engineering is what you wanna buy into.

Tesla is years ahead of all the current players if it wasn't already obvious. Though that's not to say that they don't have their own issues as well, which they have plenty of. However their issues are not critical nor engineering based but are more fit and finish, customer service based. The Model 3 and Y are the pinnacle of ev engineering, those giga castings. Watch those Munro videos comparing the Mach E to the Y and ask yourself which is better? The cooling system between the two is WORLDS apart. It may not be the sole reason one buys one or the other, but I would not ignore the engineering if you plan to keep on of these cars more than two years.

Beyond that what's that dude, Nylan. He does a LOT of long range testing in Norway. He rents new EV's and does a 1K mile test, calculates the math, the kw hours, etc etc so you don't have to buy one w/o knowing the real world details so you're not surprised at the turd that it is in real life not EPA numbers. Cliff notes, Teslas are generally at the very top.

EV's are expensive up front for a reason those batteries etc. But you will save a boatload of cash from not buying gas and maintenance will go down to tires basically. That should be considered when judging their cost basis.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:07 PM   #3649
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
right those with different opinions are clueless. Got it.

Oh man the hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy... some posters come into a Tesla thread and decry why the hell anyone would buy a Tesla?

Yea ok.
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Old 09-09-2021, 12:13 PM   #3650
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Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post
I'm seeing a lot of EV haters especially the clueless kind in here.
Enthusiast forum, so not necessarily "EV haters" but "enthusiasts".
Related example: I hate automatic transmissions; I've driven the "best" (ZF8) I own what is arguably the "second best" (A81E), I'll still take a Tremec with 3-pedals over either of them, knowing I'm giving up two cogs & getting a worse 0-60 time, worse fuel economy, because a manual is more enjoyable, engaging, and far less infuriating than an auto for me.

To EV's: They are more expensive, they are significantly less engaging, they are heavier, so on an enthusiast forum where individuals like the exact opposite of those three things, EV's are gonna have a bad time.

We're not all entirely crazy though.

In the case of a CUV for example, a decidedly non-enthusiast vehicle, I'm going to be saddled with an automatic, an uninspiring engine, and way too much curb weight, so I'll take an EV and pay the premium for an EV (if it's not too much that is), but I can't fault others for sticking with ICE as they are saving money.

In the case of an economy car - I could still get a stick shift and light weight, so a comparable EV with a significantly higher buy in, no thanks.

In the case of a performance or fun car - no. Just no. I don't want an EV. I want engagement, I want to shift my own gears, paper racing be damned, I want theater & noise, and I don't want VSC or TC stepping in to do the work for me.

In the case of a daily driver/four door - I am more apt to pay ~60k for a 6mt ATS-V Blackwing than I am for a Model 3 performance, or ~70k for a 6mt BMW M3 than a Model 3P with FSD.

From an enthusiast standpoint, you are giving up a lot to go to an EV from an ICE, and paying a lot more to do it.
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