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Old 06-16-2022, 06:08 PM   #51
dwf137
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
Got to love discussions over a word that hasn't ever been properly defined and agreed upon by both parties, and which should effectively be banned from technical forums. "Better".

Detail it as a clearly framed function of well-defined variables and factors than can be independently measured, reboot discusssion.
So... you mean let's start comparing things like 0-60 times for hybrid CUV's? Not sure any Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid supporters want to go there...
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Old 06-16-2022, 07:00 PM   #52
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His definition of "better" is "full-time" eg. he's drinking the marketing kool-aid. There are a myriad of better systems on the market than what Subaru uses, and by "better" I mean systems that function and perform better, they however do not come with dogs and LOVE.
The 2023 Crosstrek PHEV having power to all four tires all the time is better than a part time system, especially if said system is FWD biased and can overheat and give up. I also said that Active AWD from Subaru is their worst system. But it is still better than the competition. Good luck w/ the Rav4 Prime's emotor on the rear axle. That will give up way before the Crossterk PHEV with it's motor sending power direct into the transmission and MPT.

My Tesla Model Y is AWD but with primary propulsion from the rear motor until the system deploys the front motor. Two motors is even better than a driveshaft and center differential. My Giulia Q4 is AWD, but it's RWD until it needs to send power to the front axle. Makes for a great car in the dry and then capable in the snow/rain, as much as a sedan can be. I'd rather RWD normally than FWD. Most of the other PHEVs are FWD normally. The Rav4 Prime is FWD above 40 mph and around town its only using the rear for assist. That's not better than Subaru.
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Old 06-20-2022, 03:50 PM   #53
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A few notes:

My 2021 RAV4 hybrid transfers power to the rear over 40mph. I saw it on the screen yesterday when I was going 74mph and gave it a good bit of accelerator pedal. I would imagine the RAV4 Prime does the same. As I mentioned earlier, my Hybrid RAV4 will propel the vehicle at highway speeds under very light load. Examples would be a slight downhill and feathering the throttle to maintain speed instead of slowing. I can provide video evidence of these if necessary.

"Mild hybrid" keeps getting used a lot. A mild hybrid (LINK) is not what a Toyota hybrid is. A mild hybrid generally helps with start/stop, extra power, and (sometimes) keeping accessories spinning with the engine off. A mild hybrid does not power the vehicles wheels directly and the car will not move, even in a parking lot, without the engine running. The RAV4 Prime (PHEV) is a plug in version of the regular hybrid, with motors that are larger and a much larger battery.
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Old 06-20-2022, 06:07 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DougNuts View Post
A few notes:

My 2021 RAV4 hybrid transfers power to the rear over 40mph. I saw it on the screen yesterday when I was going 74mph and gave it a good bit of accelerator pedal. I would imagine the RAV4 Prime does the same. As I mentioned earlier, my Hybrid RAV4 will propel the vehicle at highway speeds under very light load. Examples would be a slight downhill and feathering the throttle to maintain speed instead of slowing. I can provide video evidence of these if necessary.

"Mild hybrid" keeps getting used a lot. A mild hybrid (LINK) is not what a Toyota hybrid is. A mild hybrid generally helps with start/stop, extra power, and (sometimes) keeping accessories spinning with the engine off. A mild hybrid does not power the vehicles wheels directly and the car will not move, even in a parking lot, without the engine running. The RAV4 Prime (PHEV) is a plug in version of the regular hybrid, with motors that are larger and a much larger battery.
Rav4 switches to FWD almost exclusively unless you need some extra oomph. Above 40 mph or whatever lock no longer works, and again the system goes back to FWD.

You are correct. Toyota/Subaru is a "Strong" Hybrid, but it get's confusing here to talk about Mild, Strong and PHEV.
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Old 06-20-2022, 07:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougNuts View Post
A few notes:

My 2021 RAV4 hybrid transfers power to the rear over 40mph. I saw it on the screen yesterday when I was going 74mph and gave it a good bit of accelerator pedal. I would imagine the RAV4 Prime does the same. As I mentioned earlier, my Hybrid RAV4 will propel the vehicle at highway speeds under very light load. Examples would be a slight downhill and feathering the throttle to maintain speed instead of slowing. I can provide video evidence of these if necessary.

"Mild hybrid" keeps getting used a lot. A mild hybrid (LINK) is not what a Toyota hybrid is. A mild hybrid generally helps with start/stop, extra power, and (sometimes) keeping accessories spinning with the engine off. A mild hybrid does not power the vehicles wheels directly and the car will not move, even in a parking lot, without the engine running. The RAV4 Prime (PHEV) is a plug in version of the regular hybrid, with motors that are larger and a much larger battery.

Pretty sure the original mild hybrid Crosstrek moved at parking lot speeds, sending power to all 4 wheels, with the engine off.
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Old 06-20-2022, 09:05 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
it get's confusing here to talk about Mild, Strong and PHEV.

I really don't think it is confusing. Mild hybrid cannot power the wheels without the engine running (read: electric assist), hybrid can, PHEV is a plug in hybrid.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Pretty sure the original mild hybrid Crosstrek moved at parking lot speeds, sending power to all 4 wheels, with the engine off.

Justy, I agree that the original Crosstrek was a poor execution, or "mild" in application, but if it could move the car without the engine running, it was not a "mild hybrid" by definition. Check out that wiki link I posted earlier. Not trying to argue, just keeping the terminology straight.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:40 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Pretty sure the original mild hybrid Crosstrek moved at parking lot speeds, sending power to all 4 wheels, with the engine off.
So the Ď14-16? Crosstrek Hybrid was not a dinky mild Hybrid per the definition. It attached the motor to the transmission to propel the car in parking lots and for assist at speed.

A true Mild Hybrid is not connected to the drivetrain and basically just provides juice for accessories, start/stop and to recharge the battery. Itís usually just attached to the engine and replaces the alternator.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:08 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
So the Ď14-16? Crosstrek Hybrid was not a dinky mild Hybrid per the definition. It attached the motor to the transmission to propel the car in parking lots and for assist at speed.

A true Mild Hybrid is not connected to the drivetrain and basically just provides juice for accessories, start/stop and to recharge the battery. Itís usually just attached to the engine and replaces the alternator.
this, like the stupid etorque on my new Ram truck. What useless piece of **** that thing is.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:14 AM   #59
Snow Drift
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this, like the stupid etorque on my new Ram truck. What useless piece of **** that thing is.
Correct. Sometimes they also use an electric torque booster, like the Maserati Ghibli Hybrid (EDM), but it is not connected to the transmission or axle.
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