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Old 12-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #1
delongedoug
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Default Formula 1 2020

Last year's thread: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2890186

The most dominant team in the history of F1 continues their reign with another driver's and constructor's double. That's a clean sweep of 12 out of 12 driver's/constructor's championships for Merc now in the hybrid era. Lewis Hamilton was crowned world champion in Austin with 2 races left to spare, his 6th World Driver's Championship, leaving him just 1 behind the all time leader, Michael Shumacher's 7.



The driver lineups are quite stable for this upcoming year after the silliest of silly seasons last year, with 8 of the 10 teams bringing the same pairing they finished 2019 with (highlighted in red).

2020 driver lineups:

Mercedes (Mercedes): Hamilton, Bottas
Ferrari (Ferrari): Vettel, Leclerc
Red Bull (Honda): Verstappen, Albon
McLaren (Renault): Sainz, Norris
Renault (Renault): Ricciardo, Ocon
Toro Rosso Alpha Tauri (Honda): Kvyat, Gasly
Racing Point (Mercedes): Perez, Stroll
Alfa Romeo (Ferrari): Raikkonen, Giovinazzi
Haas (Ferrari): Grosjean, Magnussen
Williams (Mercedes): Russell, Latifi

Bottas will need more than "v2.0" to compete with Hamilton and Mercedes signed the quiet team player for another year alongside his champion teammate. Esteban Ocon was rumored as a possible replacement (if nothing more than for negotiation purposes) for the Finn but Valtteri's drama-free and team-player role made him an easy choice to continue their championship-winning pairing into the final year of these regulations.

Young pretender Charles Lerclerc proved to be more than a handful for his 4x WDC Ferrari teammate, Sebastian Vettel, scoring more points on Sunday as well as more pole positions on Saturday. Vettel's streak of clumsy mistakes, spins and poor decisions leave him as the much higher paid and underperforming veteran driver. Another season of high hopes for Ferrari turned into another season of finishing well behind the mighty Mercedes. And with it, a potential power struggle from within for the "#1" driver role.

Red Bull has a sensational driver in Max Verstappen eager for a championship fight but lacking the car to do it. If Red Bull cannot demonstrate a clear path forwards, they risk losing the Dutchman to a rival team with so many contracts up at the end of 2020. His teammate Alex Albon did a solid job replacing Pierre Gasly mid-season, but the team will expect more than 6th out of him if he hopes to continue at the front of the grid.

McLaren is coming back with their very strong driver pairing in the more seasoned Carlos Sainz and youngster Lando Norris. They have a great dynamic and the team has made great strides on the technical side, landing them 4th in the Constructor's in 2019, a great turnaround from the slump that left them in 6th in 2018 and 9th in 2017.

After roughly a decade in F1 with no podium to show for it and the record for most races started without a podium, Nico Hulkenberg is out at Renault for the young Frenchman Esteban Ocon, who makes his return to the F1 grid after a year on the sidelines in the Mercedes simulator and garage. His pairing with Daniel Ricciardo should be competitive. I'm sure they hope their 2020 car is, as well, as they have their hands full in the midfield battle and actually lost ground in their chase to establish themselves among the top works teams.

Similarly to his replacement, Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly also seemed to perform better in the 2nd half of the season, matching his new teammate Daniel Kvyat. The pairing should continue their development together in the midfield, but never say never in the Red Bull driver program. The team will be back under the same ownership but with a new name; Alpha Tauri.

Racing Point had a somewhat expected slump this year after the team was put into administration last summer, bought out by Lawrence Stroll, and renamed. The lack of funding surely impacted their development on the 2019 car, landing them 7th in the Constructors'. Lance Stroll continues to disappoint on Saturdays only to make up places and fight for the final points positions on Sundays, albeit while being beaten quite soundly by his more experienced and higher rated teammate, Sergio Perez. He brings a good amount of funding to the team, himself, and has signed a 3 year contract through 2022.

Antonio Giovinazzi had a poor first half of the season but came alive after the summer break when his seat was up for grabs and started regularly qualifying and finishing ahead of his extremely experienced teammate, Kimi Raikkonen. This should be the Finn's last season in F1 as he is now 40 years old. Giovinazzi will need to show improvement this year as the team will be looking to the future and a certain young Ferrari driver named Schumacher is coming through F2.

It was a disaster of a season for Haas as they went down the wrong development route and ended up with an unpredictable and ultimately undrivable car. Despite his many incidents, the team have retained Romain Grosjean alongside Kevin Magnussen as he was the one whose feedback on car development was on point. Unable to get the tires fired up, the Haas struggled for grip and slipped down the order to finish a disastrous 9th. Nowhere to go but up!

And you can be sure of that so long as Williams are in the mix. What else can you say about this complete and utter collapse over the past 5 years? They scored a single solitary point in 2019 when Robert Kubica finished 10th in the rain-soaked and crazy German GP. However, he was outqualified by his rookie teammate George Russell 21-0 and was trounced overall, concluding a disappointing yet heroic return to the top of motorsport following his near-fatal winter 2011 rally accident. Nicholas Latifi will take his spot and after a lukewarm junior series career, he will have his hands full against former F2 champion, Russell. They very well may yet again be in a league of their own, and not in a good way.

Despite dropping Germany, we're up to 22 races with the additions of Vietnam and the revised Zandvoort on the back of young Dutch star, Max Verstappen.

Race Day Venue Formula 1Ū Grand Prix
  1. 15 March 2020 Melbourne Australia
  2. 22 March 2020 Sakhir Bahrain
  3. 5 April 2020 Hanoi Vietnam
  4. 19 April 2020 Shanghai China
  5. 3 May 2020 Zandvoort Netherlands
  6. 10 May 2020 Barcelona Spain
  7. 24 May 2020 Monaco Monaco
  8. 7 June 2020 Baku Azerbaijan
  9. 14 June 2020 Montreal Canada
  10. 28 June 2020 Le Castellet France
  11. 5 July 2020 Spielberg Austria
  12. 19 July 2020 Silverstone Great Britain
  13. 2 August 2020 Budapest Hungary
  14. 30 August 2020 Spa Belgium
  15. 6 September 2020 Monza Italy
  16. 20 September 2020 Singapore Singapore
  17. 27 September 2020 Sochi Russia
  18. 11 October 2020 Suzuka Japan
  19. 25 October 2020 Austin USA
  20. 1 November 2020 Mexico City Mexico City
  21. 15 November 2020 Sao Paulo Brazil
  22. 29 November 2020 Abu Dhabi Abu Dhabi

Lights out in Melbourne in just over 3 months' time!

NASIOC's own sperry is running his annual fantasy F1 league that a bunch of us participate in. It's $21 to buy in so join the fun for $1/race!

https://ff1.seccs.org/
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Last edited by delongedoug; 03-02-2020 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:12 AM   #2
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Ahh. The state of Formula 1 interest. This thread started several days ago, with no replies. I've been hanging around here for a long time, and current interest shown is dramatically less than it was, say 15 years ago. The reasons are obvious.

It continues to be the apex of technology, but it has produced frightfully boring (and ugly) cars and racing.

I'll still hang here, but I pine for the days when the V10's screamed by at 18,000 RPM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:58 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by grandpa rex View Post
Ahh. The state of Formula 1 interest. This thread started several days ago, with no replies. I've been hanging around here for a long time, and current interest shown is dramatically less than it was, say 15 years ago. The reasons are obvious.

It continues to be the apex of technology, but it has produced frightfully boring (and ugly) cars and racing.

I'll still hang here, but I pine for the days when the V10's screamed by at 18,000 RPM.
It's a mixed bag. On one hand, I think viewership is actually increasing with Liberty's takeover due to their Netflix series, streaming service and embracing of social media. On the other hand, a lot of old-school fans don't like the general direction of the technical regulations that affect the cars and racing (eg the crappy/lack of sound, increased size and weight, artificial DRS, etc). But the cars are crazy fast nowadays, we just have Mercedes as a clear favorite across an entire season whereas Ferrari challenges for some poles and wins and Red Bull picks a few up at certain tracks and conditions that favor them. So when the championships are a foregone conclusion before a wheel is turned, it kind of turns off fans as the "sport" aspect of it isn't particularly competitive. The prize money is outrageously unfair and essentially rigs the sport year after year. It's like if the Patriots were rewarded with the #1 draft pick for winning the Super Bowl.

But also, NASIOC and forums in general are dying. Obviously the member count keeps going up but the number of active users is decreasing, especially here in the Motorsports subforum. It's hard to compete with large and comprehensive userbases like reddit when we're a handful of people. It's also the off-season so there's not much to talk about until the reveals and winter testing next year.

Same, I keep tuning in for some reason. What's crazy is that MotoGP is currently experiencing dominance that makes F1 look competitive, but the racing is still so close from lights out to the checkered flag that you forget because they are battling wheel to wheel for the entire race, or at least stalking, leading to numerous races decided in the final corner every year. The same guy finishes first or second every single race but it's still monumentally entertaining because the race isn't decided at the first corner or pit stop. F1 seems to keep saying "Next year will be better because XYZ" year after year. Aero changes, different tires, Ferrari will get it together, 2021 regs, etc.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:39 AM   #4
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Well, If I'm anything, it's old school.

You are 100% correct about MotoGP being the most exciting racing on the planet.

Your comments about other sources of discussion is also most valid.

However, I'm not sure I agree with you that Liberty Media has been good for the sport.

I desperately miss the sound of the 18,000 - 20,000 RPM V-10's. The sound was frightening almost. There was no sound in the world like it.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:16 AM   #5
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Yes, V10s sounded and were quite amazing, but like DD said, the Netflix series sparked a lot of new interest, and this season's coming release will only do the same. I am happy to have a renewed interest in F1 again.

Also forums are definitely dead, especially Motorsports. More people are worried about which mudflaps to get
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Old 12-17-2019, 02:14 PM   #6
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However, I'm not sure I agree with you that Liberty Media has been good for the sport.
I guess "good" is subjective. Ratings, however, aren't. Not only that, but Liberty has nothing to do with the battleships out on track these days, either. Blame the FIA. Either way, Bernie's tyranny had to end sometime.

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Also forums are definitely dead, especially Motorsports. More people are worried about which mudflaps to get
Should I paint my Hellas to match my mudflaps? Need help choosing LEDs to retrofit. So clean, bruh!
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Old 12-19-2019, 07:58 PM   #7
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Speaking of which, F1 just released some stats on the matter:

https://corp.formula1.com/grand-prix...ses-4-million/

Quote:
Grand Prix attendance in 2019 surpasses 4 million

Formula 1 is pleased to publish spectator attendance figures for the 2019 season, based on data supplied by all the race promoters.

As in 2018, more than four million spectators (4,164,948) attended at least one of the 21 Grands Prix on the 2019 FIA Formula One World Championship™ calendar, with a +1.75% increase compared to the previous season, despite the Saturday cancellation of the Japanese Grand Prix due to Typhoon Hagibis. Adding to this total the 80,118 Formula 1Ū Paddock Club ticket holders* (+7,15% compared to 2018), the average attendance per race was 202,146 (+1.85%).

Three Grands Prix had an attendance of more than 300,000 spectators over the race weekend – Great Britain (351,000), Mexico (345,694) and Australia (324,100) – while a total of eight, more than a third of all events, attracted crowds of over 200,000, including Singapore and USA (268,000 each), Belgium (251,864), Hungary (230,000) and Austria (203,000). It is also worth noting the 90th edition of Italian Grand Prix registered its highest ever weekend attendance with 200,000 spectators.

The most significant increases compared to the 2018 season were the races hosted in Montreal (+14.69%), Shanghai (+10.34%), Melbourne (+9.86%), Spielberg (+9.73%), Budapest (+9.52%) and Monza (+9.29%).

Sundays only overall attendance** was 1,771,106, up 4% YOY. Five tracks welcomed more than 100,000 spectators on the race day: Silverstone (141,000) once more topped this list, ahead of Mexico City (138,435), Austin (128,000), Singapore (115,240), Spa-Francorchamps (109,064) and Melbourne (102,000). Six races (China, Austria, Belgium, Singapore, Japan and USA) posted a double digit increment over the previous years. The most significant was the +30% registered at the Shanghai International Circuit on the day Formula 1 celebrated an historical milestone as the 1000th Grand Prix.

Sean Bratches, Managing Director, Commercial Operations, Formula 1 said:

“2019 has been another great year for Formula 1 and we are delighted to see that over 4 million fans joined us at our 21 races, beating the attendance figures for last year, including a record breaking Italian Grand Prix weekend attendance with 200,000 spectators. Our mission is to unleash the greatest racing spectacle on the planet and give our fans an experience they will never forget. We are therefore delighted to see that, based on research carried out on the ground, those attending events are enjoying their experience over a race weekend and we are determined to ensure they continue to feel that way. 2019 has been an incredible season and we are already looking forward to next year when Hanoi and Zandvoort will join our 22 race calendar and when Formula 1 celebrates its 70th anniversary.”
I should note that they don't mention any declines at any races or approach any sort of negativity at any point, so this is pretty much a case of "make the stats say what we want them to say" but that doesn't make the stats untrue.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
I guess "good" is subjective. Ratings, however, aren't. Not only that, but Liberty has nothing to do with the battleships out on track these days, either. Blame the FIA. Either way, Bernie's tyranny had to end sometime.



Should I paint my Hellas to match my mudflaps? Need help choosing LEDs to retrofit. So clean, bruh!
This just makes me think of my biggest complement on this forum , "I bet you don't even vape" . . . Lol. Nope lol.

But seriously there is a small core group on here if you look hard enough, we should all do something, lol. But yes, the general internet consensus is that stickers, vape pen's and hella whatever is the **** these days.

Ill stick to my power to weight ratios, corner weights and rpm chasing and let the youtube veiws go to the "next gen" of "car people". Lol

Hold on when i answer my flip phone . . .
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:42 AM   #9
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I'm so confused. Not sure what we're arguing for anymore.

Get off my lawn. Bring back the torpedo shaped guys with comically oversized wheels on toothpicks.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:21 PM   #10
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In for 2020!
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Old 12-24-2019, 02:05 AM   #11
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So what is the over/under on Leclerc's pay? New contract through 2024. Is he making more than Vettel?
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Old 12-24-2019, 06:06 AM   #12
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No wai, he may have a more competitive care leveraged, though.

Not like Ferrari can strat two cars, let alone one.
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:31 PM   #13
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Not sure what to make of this:
Beginning of the end of Williams.
Maybe some quick cash for the F1 team
Maybe nothing.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...616416/?nrt=54

Founded in 2011, WAE is the engineering services business of the Williams Group that owns the Formula 1 team. It employs over 300 people working in 40 different technology projects.

The stake will be sold to an independent private equity firm controlled by EMK Capital.

Williams said it will retain a minority interest in the WAE business.

WAE was the sole battery supplier for Formula E from its first season in 2014 until season four in 2018.

"We have rapidly grown WAE from an embryonic one client start-up, to a business with many clients in multiple sectors," said Williams CEO Mike O'Driscoll.


"The time is now right to sell a majority stake to enable WAE to further scale and develop its technologies. EMK Capital have a proven track record of success which will enable WAE to take advantage of these emerging opportunities and realise its full potential."

Craig Wilson, WAE's managing director added: "Williams Advanced Engineering has developed a strong reputation for providing energy-efficient advanced performance solutions to a diverse range of sectors and blue-chip clients.

"This expertise and our technologies in areas such as electrification, lightweight structures, aerodynamics and precision manufacture will become even more relevant and in-demand globally going forward.

"This new ownership structure will enable WAE to take advantage of these emerging opportunities and comes at a pivotal moment allowing us to further invest in new areas of capability and technologies in order to realise the full potential of the business."
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:14 AM   #14
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I suppose a year or two will tell.

It does seem a bit off they'd give up their controlling stake. Private equity is pretty ruthless though.

Last few seasons really have been hard.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by grandpa rex View Post
Ahh. The state of Formula 1 interest. This thread started several days ago, with no replies. I've been hanging around here for a long time, and current interest shown is dramatically less than it was, say 15 years ago. The reasons are obvious.
F1 viewership isn't dying - car forums are.
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by grandpa rex View Post
Ahh. The state of Formula 1 interest. This thread started several days ago, with no replies. I've been hanging around here for a long time, and current interest shown is dramatically less than it was, say 15 years ago. The reasons are obvious.

It continues to be the apex of technology, but it has produced frightfully boring (and ugly) cars and racing.

I'll still hang here, but I pine for the days when the V10's screamed by at 18,000 RPM.
what to say? There arenīt important changes from 2019 to 2020; looks like another easy win for Hamilton, Bottas is still a mediocre No 2 driver, Vettel is on his decline, Leclerc still has to learn, Verstappen has learned but he still isnīt at the same level like Hamilton yet.

Mercedes is still the best team, I hate Wolff with passion but he manages his team perfectly.
Binotto is a weak team leader, like Claire Williams or Günther Steiner.
I donīt see any improvement at Ferrari. And hearing from Binotto "we donīt have a No 1 Driver in 2020" isnīt a good idea, Leclerc and Vettel will crash, again.

Thatīs my opinion, another boring season will start and end, with a few highlights, and Hamilton will equal with Schumacher with his seventh championship.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:19 AM   #17
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https://verstappen.nl/en/article/3936/

Quote:
Max Verstappen extends contract with Aston Martin Red Bull Racing

Today Aston Martin Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen have announced a contract extension to race with the team until the end of the 2023 Formula 1 season.

Max became the youngest ever Grand Prix winner in his inaugural season with the team in 2016. The eight-time Grand Prix winner has since become an integral member of the team and a driver whose determination to win truly embodies the Red Bull ethos.

Max Verstappen said: “I am really happy to have extended my partnership with Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. Red Bull believed in me and gave me the opportunity to start in Formula 1 which I have always been very grateful for. Over the years I have grown closer and closer with the team and besides the passion from everyone and the on-track performance, it is also really enjoyable to work with such a great group of people. Honda coming onboard and the progress we have made over the last twelve months gives me even more motivation and the belief that we can win together. I respect the way Red Bull and Honda work together and from all sides everyone is doing what they can to succeed. I want to win with Red Bull and our goal is of course to fight for a World Championship together.”

Commenting on the extension, Aston Martin Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said: “It is fantastic news for the team to have extended our agreement with Max up-to and including the 2023 season. With the challenge of the 2021 regulation changes on the horizon, continuity in as many areas as possible is key. Max has proven what an asset he is to Aston Martin Red Bull Racing, he truly believes in the partnership we have forged with our engine supplier Honda, and we are delighted to have extended our relationship with him.”
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
what to say? There arenīt important changes from 2019 to 2020; looks like another easy win for Hamilton, Bottas is still a mediocre No 2 driver, Vettel is on his decline, Leclerc still has to learn, Verstappen has learned but he still isnīt at the same level like Hamilton yet.
I'm not so sure I agree. I think the team rallies around and supports HAM as the #1 and the car suits him far better than Bottas. However, HAM is better than BOT.

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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
Mercedes is still the best team, I hate Wolff with passion but he manages his team perfectly.
Binotto is a weak team leader, like Claire Williams or Günther Steiner.
I donīt see any improvement at Ferrari. And hearing from Binotto "we donīt have a No 1 Driver in 2020" isnīt a good idea, Leclerc and Vettel will crash, again.

Thatīs my opinion, another boring season will start and end, with a few highlights, and Hamilton will equal with Schumacher with his seventh championship.
Yep. Agreed. The MER team is phenomenal and operates with German precision (except when they don't).

FER is FER - they pretty much went downhill post Ross Brawn's departure. Toxicity is quite evident there. They should shed VET as their failing to put all their chips behind LEC will ruin that relationship.

However, RBR could pose a threat, I just don't see it with their #2 driver - he's not the caliber they need - yet.
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:13 PM   #19
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Ferrari is all about the team championship, drivers championship is not so important for them
RBR is all about the drivers championship (for Verstappen)
Mercedes wants to win both, and they have the best driver yet with a loyal No 2 which can win some points
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:36 PM   #20
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Yep. Agree. Though - Ferrari seems to sabotage the team by focusing on a #1 who isn't really the best shot for them.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:51 PM   #21
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Williams pulls the next marketing stunt, an israeli test driver

https://www.france24.com/en/20200115...f1-test-driver

yeah, an unskilled test driver, that will help developing a car that can defend the last row, easily
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:49 AM   #22
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If they miss winter testing again, just shut the whole ****ing thing down. Claire's been nothing short of a disastrous failure given the keys to daddy's creation he built with blood, sweat and tears from the ground up. How many more years of this downward spiral are they going to sit through and continue saying "It's hard times. We're putting our heads down. Everyone's working flat out. Next year. Blah, blah, blah."
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:46 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
Williams pulls the next marketing stunt, an israeli test driver

https://www.france24.com/en/20200115...f1-test-driver

yeah, an unskilled test driver, that will help developing a car that can defend the last row, easily


Williams are just turning into Eddie Jordan's team in their final days.
Just sell out to highest bidder.
Just sad.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:36 AM   #24
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
If they miss winter testing again, just shut the whole ****ing thing down. Claire's been nothing short of a disastrous failure given the keys to daddy's creation he built with blood, sweat and tears from the ground up. How many more years of this downward spiral are they going to sit through and continue saying "It's hard times. We're putting our heads down. Everyone's working flat out. Next year. Blah, blah, blah."
Williams' decline started when Ralf and JPM left.
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