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Old 02-26-2017, 01:16 PM   #1
Redwooods
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Default Making a hybrid build as reliable as possible in 2017

I realize there are a ton of threads in the history of this forum on hybrid builds, but many of them are 3+ years old and I have a few questions I was hoping you guys could answer for me that I was unable to specifically find through digging.

A little background info: Rod knock in 2005 wrx bottom end (car has 130k) and have brought to a reputable shop in my area who specializes in hybrid builds (205 heads on 257 bottom end). They recommend: Sti shortblock used or new with forged JE Hybrid pistons to compensate, acl race bearings, rods, etc. They also recommended all new hoses, timing belt, rebuilding stock turbo, etc.

I want my hybrid build to be as reliable as possible and if possible add a little more power. I don't rally, drag, launch, etc. I am a pretty conservative driver who likes to punch it from time to time. I just want reliability for this car because I still owe on it and am using most of my savings to rebuild this engine. I would be very happy with 250whp. The car right now has 3" Turbo back exhaust, silicone turbo inlet and an etune. Those are the only performance modifications.

1. Is there a difference between buying used case halves or a new ej257 oem shortblock. My mechanic said finding used case halves and machining them would be cheaper than a new SB. Is there a reliability difference?

2. My mechanic said the new JE hybrid pistons make up for the compression issues and that boreing out the heads is not needed with these. Should I still have the heads matched or have people had really good success with these pistons in terms of reliability?

3. When I replace the clutch while the engine is out, do you recommend getting a new stock clutch or upgrading? I want my original 5mt to last as long as possible.

4. Since I am aiming for 250whp, I most likely need to upgrade my turbo and fuel system. Will a vf39, vf43, VF48, vf52 all directly bolt on? A td05 seems like a good turbo for me but pricier. When buying a used turbo, how many miles is too much as long as the shaft play and wastegate are solid? Should I be worried about putting a 20,000 mile turbo in good shape on a new hybrid engine for longevity? I only really care about low end because I won't be doing highway pulls, just random spirited runs through town from time to time.

5. Is there anything else I should include to protect my engine life? I plan on replacing all the hoses, timing belt, all new gaskets and seals, etc.

My main concern is that most people say hybrid builds don't last as long as factory, consume oil, etc. Ideally this engine would last 100k miles for me. My mechanic has convinced me that hybrids now are just as reliable as a factory bottom end.

I appreciate any input. Thanks!
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:09 AM   #2
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listen to your mechanic. sounds like he knows what he is doing.

stay oem clutch for your setup.

your main reliability factor will be in the tuning. make sure your tune is spot on and knock free. real power is a byproduct of a healthy running engine.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:05 PM   #3
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titter View Post
listen to your mechanic. sounds like he knows what he is doing.

stay oem clutch for your setup.

your main reliability factor will be in the tuning. make sure your tune is spot on and knock free. real power is a byproduct of a healthy running engine.
Any input on the turbo aspect? Is it pretty risky to be putting a turbo with 60k miles on a new engine albeit with no shaft play or WG like some people do? What are my limits as far as VF turbos for direct bolt on?
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:17 PM   #5
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you are only limited by your budget. personally i would never use a used turbo without it being re-built and re-balanced. who knows how much 2-stepping and anti-lag has been run though that used turbo. but thats just me.

imo skip the VF and just get a cheap 16g.
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Old 02-27-2017, 02:36 PM   #6
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VF series are usually cheaper though, no? My mechanic said he could rebuild my td04 for 500 dollars, but I figured at that point I could buy a slightly bigger turbo that either needs to be rebuilt or has low miles for close to that amount of money.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:24 PM   #7
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Vf are cheaper but figure out the max you want to spend on turbo and decide on that and talk to turner about spool etc. gl
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Old 03-02-2017, 07:20 PM   #8
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I'm going to do a hybrid build also, I'm using my 2.5 from my legacy gt and my 04 wrx heads, my buddy is running a hybrid with bc 280 cams with a cobb 20g and just hit a not to shabby 500whp on e85, and amazingly my old wrx 5spd tranny is taking all the abuse.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:31 PM   #9
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I am closely monitoring this thread.

Also, care to share where youre at and the anticipated cost of the build?
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwooods View Post
Any input on the turbo aspect? Is it pretty risky to be putting a turbo with 60k miles on a new engine albeit with no shaft play or WG like some people do? What are my limits as far as VF turbos for direct bolt on?
Your WHP goal can be accomplished on the STOCK turbo. Your question shows a profound lack of research. I'd suggest you get KNEE DEEP into the sticky threads at the top of this forum as you are in way over your head.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:25 PM   #11
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The STI short block is being built as we speak. JE Hybrid pistons, ACL bearings and rods, etc.

I've decided to ditch the idea of putting in a VF series turbo altogether and have been looking extensively at a
TD05H-16GXT from blouch new for just under a thousand dollars. From what I've been researching, this turbo sounds like a perfect match for me. Though, I am intrigued by FP series turbos such as the green. I know this is a much bigger turbo, but the price is even cheaper than the 16g I am looking at?!?

I am also undecided on injector size, my mechanic says 565cc will be plenty but a lot of people on here seem to recommend 650cc at least. I know you don't need a bigger TMIC but I am torn on just getting one and having it all tuned together.

Last edited by Redwooods; 03-04-2017 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 03-04-2017, 02:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGreenMonster View Post
I am closely monitoring this thread.

Also, care to share where youre at and the anticipated cost of the build?
I'm anticipating 6500-7K without a new turbo, injectors or fuel pump.

Last edited by Redwooods; 03-04-2017 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:53 PM   #13
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honeslty I dont think 650 will be enought, I have a 205 with a 16g and Im at 90% idc
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Old 03-04-2017, 08:36 PM   #14
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I almost went with 750 with my 207, but ended up with 1000s and aem320 pump
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:57 AM   #15
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From what I always understood it was to go with the biggest set of injectors you can afford. You may only use 50% of whatever you buy but you have plenty of cushion if you need it OR if you have a tickle to upgrade...
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Old 03-05-2017, 01:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsePOOGAS View Post
From what I always understood it was to go with the biggest set of injectors you can afford. You may only use 50% of whatever you buy but you have plenty of cushion if you need it OR if you have a tickle to upgrade...
To me, ideal is to keep any part or system between 20% and 80% of maximum. Outside this it becomes harder to control the part or system.

This means injectors that are way oversized may be hard to control accurately for idle and low RPM.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:27 PM   #17
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This is like watching a slow motion train wreck. I pray to God you call your tuner and open a line of dialogue with him to discuss injectors, fuel pump, and turbo selection.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:23 PM   #18
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I say ID 1000's, a good pump thats not a walbro and the 16gxt or 18gxt.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:35 PM   #19
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Why not a Walbro fuel pump ?
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:59 AM   #20
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I think he just left it off the list. He seems to be covering everything else.

The cost of new ID850cc and ID1000cc injectors is the same.
The difference is how well does your tuner think he can adjust the different injectors to meet your needs?
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Why not a Walbro fuel pump ?
because I used to call them a "whinebro" they are loud and itll have a tough time keeping up with the big injectors. An AEM320 or DW300 would both be better IMO
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:15 PM   #22
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I have a hybrid build ej251 block with ej205 head and it has been running strong for about a year now. No need for sti short block.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:34 AM   #23
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I am wondering the same thing. A local tuner said they no longer recommend them and won't tune them because they never work 100%, this is what he said. Now I have an 02 that needs a new motor and I am not sure what to do but I have been liking the hybrid for the torque. Not sure what to do honestly.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedfour View Post
I am wondering the same thing. A local tuner said they no longer recommend them and won't tune them because they never work 100%, this is what he said. Now I have an 02 that needs a new motor and I am not sure what to do but I have been liking the hybrid for the torque. Not sure what to do honestly.
I'd recommend talking to a different tuner. I realize that some tuners are uncomfortable using certain software, or are unsure what an engine can take safely. Everyone posts up the failures and no one posts the successes (minus a few of them). That's why you only read about the bad experiences, which plays into peoples opinions on things. If you want to do a hybrid, do it. There is nothing wrong with a hybrid if it was built correctly i.e. don't skimp on the important parts. Use the hybrid pistons, or get the heads machined to match the bore of the 2.5 block. I'm finishing my hybrid build over the next two weekends. Even the shop is excited to see how much it makes because of all the little things that have been done.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:33 PM   #25
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following
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