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05-09-2009, 05:38 PM | #1 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
Track day near Mishap
My buddy tracks an Integra. We were at the track today. Standing near his car just shooting the S between sessions. I looked at his front driver's wheel and noticed something seemed missing. After a couple seconds I realized the bolt that holds the axle into the hub was missing. Not only that but, the entire threaded end of the axle had sheared off. He'd come in from a session not long before. It he'd done out again, there was a good chance his wheel would have popped off because the hub WAS pulling out of the bearings.
What that re-enforces is, if you're at the track, you need to inspect between sessions. I already check my fluids, wheel torque and brake pads every session. Seems like I need to remove the center caps so, I can keep an eye on the axles too.
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05-09-2009, 06:02 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 101091
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
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I nut and bolt my car before every weekend. It seems like for that bolt to back all of the way out it probably started out the day a bit loose. dont forget the loctite as well
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05-09-2009, 06:26 PM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
It didn't back out. The end of the axle sheared off. I'm sure the nut is still attached to it somewhere out on the track.
Seemed like a bad day for cars today. A new Z06 with 1500 miles on it blew running down the main straight. 100 mph, engine blew up, sending a 10 foot flame behind the car and a big flame up and over the hood. They towed it in and the engine was covered in fire retardant. |
05-09-2009, 06:46 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 136098
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Brothell, Washington
Vehicle:07 35r WRX Maxwell Power |
Yep, something identical happened a couple weeks ago during a Nascar race, it was pretty wild.
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05-09-2009, 06:53 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 78074
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NoVA
Vehicle:2005 STi Aspen White |
what event were you at today?
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05-09-2009, 08:43 PM | #6 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
It was the Summit Point annual spring something or other. Basically it was a FATT on Saturday with motorcycles and pony rides. Numerous Subaru's there including a 2.5RS from DPS (which was surprisingly fast).
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05-10-2009, 04:36 AM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 123085
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle:2006 WRX |
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05-12-2009, 11:56 AM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
Craziness. What would cause the axle end to sheer off? Did the axle splines round out the hub?
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05-12-2009, 02:54 PM | #9 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 116317
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: VIR, CMP, RRR
Vehicle:2013 WRX Hatch |
holy crap. I've never heard of that happening!! That's freakin' scary. There's not enough time between sessions to check everything, but holy crap, things like this make me want to hire a pit crew!
-mateo |
05-12-2009, 02:57 PM | #10 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
There's typically at least an hour between sessions so, it's not that hard to check for gross damage.
I semi-blame the victim though, they were autozone/napa reman axles. I only buy OEM for parts like that. The splines didn't seem to strip the hub but, like on subaru when that bolt comes loose, there was likely bearing damage. |
05-13-2009, 10:21 AM | #11 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120
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AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:1997 Legacy 2.5GT 1996 Impreza coupe |
Quote:
Maybe newer cars are different, but for my car if I go to the dealer I'm going to get a reman axle, too, and probably from one of the same places that does remans for all the parts places. |
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05-13-2009, 10:23 AM | #12 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
At least the AZ reman axles have warranties.
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05-13-2009, 10:30 AM | #13 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
Quote:
Axle warranty isn't going to help you when your car hits a wall. If he'd gone back out, I'm pretty sure he'd have crashed it. |
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05-13-2009, 10:51 AM | #14 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
Is there any benefit to buying aftermarket upgraded axles like ones from DSS?
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05-13-2009, 11:51 AM | #15 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.
In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me. |
05-13-2009, 12:11 PM | #16 |
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For an Integra I use new axles from Oreilly. They are $60 each for the new ones (not reman) and so far I've got 8 races on the ones I have in the car. I'll replace them here shortly just for the hell of it considering how much they cost.
-Tom |
05-13-2009, 12:13 PM | #17 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
Quote:
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05-13-2009, 12:37 PM | #18 |
Citizen Mick
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:2003 Sleeved 2.5 Oil Dry Sump Goodness |
I heard of someone who's flywheel bolt snapped off during a track day, really screwed up his engine
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05-13-2009, 12:39 PM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2000 RSTI Rally Car 2012 STI SWP Hatch |
I learned from rallying to nut/bolt the car before every event (using diff color paintmarker each time) and to check certain critical areas (wheels/steering/wheel bearings/brakes) whenever possible. This saved my ass in the Neon at VIR full course when I fried a front caliper and would have been out on track with brake fluid leaking out.
IMO vehicle maintenance should be a bigger topic in the classroom sessions as I've been appalled at what some people go out on track with, mostly because they don't know any better.... |
05-13-2009, 12:51 PM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 70252
Join Date: Sep 2004
Vehicle:05 STI blue |
I've heard of a porsche owner.. who knew about his radiator hose, which would pop off ocassionally.. he took it to the track and the hose blew.. causing 2 s2k's to be totaled at the event.
we cant catch all the failures that might happen.. but maintenance not only keeps the driver safe, but other drivers on the track. |
05-13-2009, 12:51 PM | #21 | ||
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
Quote:
Quote:
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05-13-2009, 12:52 PM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2000 RSTI Rally Car 2012 STI SWP Hatch |
Quote:
The last place I would expect any axle to fail (other than the isolated failure described above) is on track. Unless you are making obscene torque and rough on the car it *shouldn't* happen. But if you rally/rally-x, autocross or otherwise drive like a hooligan it seems to be either DSS or OEM STI parts to keep it together. Unless you can afford what they run in the PWRC |
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05-13-2009, 12:56 PM | #23 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
Quote:
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05-13-2009, 01:12 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2000 RSTI Rally Car 2012 STI SWP Hatch |
Another comment in case any track noobs read this - you need to watch your wheel bearings closely and understand what is going on to avoid potential failures like this....When you install the axle nut I recommend putting a paint mark on it to give you a quick visual to see if it's trying to back off. You should also periodically check the torque on the nut - if it's loosening yet the paint mark is static (which it should be since Scoobys are staked) your bearing is trashed regardless of whether you find play at the wheel. Retorquing is not a good idea, unless you do it to limp home.....The bearing is already trashed and the last thing you should do is pump more force/heat through it!
My bet on this Integra is that the inner races of the bearing were chewed up, the torque at the axle nut was gone and the hub/bearing were wobbling/vibrating like crazy while on track....it finally cracked the axle from the stress and shock loading that it went through to keep the wheel on the car. And FWIW - I'm not a wheel bearing engineer, just someone who raced a car with lots of wheel bearing problems and probably has been through more issues with this than all of your friends put together My 20T shop press used to be my best friend! |
05-13-2009, 01:26 PM | #25 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:2003 WRX Black |
He'd just had his wheel bearing replaced. I'm more inclined to think either the shop over torqued the bolt or that axle was just defective. On the other wheel bearing comments, I agree 100%.
Integra's aren't prone to wheel bearing problems like our subaru's. Honda had a problem in the early 90's like the subaru's and they re-engineered and fixed it. They use to have problems with wheel bearings and cracked hubs. |
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