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Old 05-09-2009, 05:38 PM   #1
MasterKwan
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Default Track day near Mishap

My buddy tracks an Integra. We were at the track today. Standing near his car just shooting the S between sessions. I looked at his front driver's wheel and noticed something seemed missing. After a couple seconds I realized the bolt that holds the axle into the hub was missing. Not only that but, the entire threaded end of the axle had sheared off. He'd come in from a session not long before. It he'd done out again, there was a good chance his wheel would have popped off because the hub WAS pulling out of the bearings.

What that re-enforces is, if you're at the track, you need to inspect between sessions. I already check my fluids, wheel torque and brake pads every session. Seems like I need to remove the center caps so, I can keep an eye on the axles too.
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:02 PM   #2
misterwaterfallin
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I nut and bolt my car before every weekend. It seems like for that bolt to back all of the way out it probably started out the day a bit loose. dont forget the loctite as well
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:26 PM   #3
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It didn't back out. The end of the axle sheared off. I'm sure the nut is still attached to it somewhere out on the track.

Seemed like a bad day for cars today. A new Z06 with 1500 miles on it blew running down the main straight. 100 mph, engine blew up, sending a 10 foot flame behind the car and a big flame up and over the hood. They towed it in and the engine was covered in fire retardant.
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:46 PM   #4
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Yep, something identical happened a couple weeks ago during a Nascar race, it was pretty wild.
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Old 05-09-2009, 06:53 PM   #5
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what event were you at today?
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:43 PM   #6
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It was the Summit Point annual spring something or other. Basically it was a FATT on Saturday with motorcycles and pony rides. Numerous Subaru's there including a 2.5RS from DPS (which was surprisingly fast).
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Seems like I need to remove the center caps so, I can keep an eye on the axles too.
It's a good idea to keep them off your track rims. They have a tendency to melt and fall off anyway.

Chris.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:56 AM   #8
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Craziness. What would cause the axle end to sheer off? Did the axle splines round out the hub?
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:54 PM   #9
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holy crap. I've never heard of that happening!! That's freakin' scary. There's not enough time between sessions to check everything, but holy crap, things like this make me want to hire a pit crew!
-mateo
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:57 PM   #10
MasterKwan
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There's typically at least an hour between sessions so, it's not that hard to check for gross damage.

I semi-blame the victim though, they were autozone/napa reman axles. I only buy OEM for parts like that. The splines didn't seem to strip the hub but, like on subaru when that bolt comes loose, there was likely bearing damage.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
It didn't back out. The end of the axle sheared off. I'm sure the nut is still attached to it somewhere out on the track.
It almost certainly sheared off due to the excess stress on it caused by the thing being lose to begin with.

Quote:
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I semi-blame the victim though, they were autozone/napa reman axles. I only buy OEM for parts like that. The splines didn't seem to strip the hub but, like on subaru when that bolt comes loose, there was likely bearing damage.
Maybe newer cars are different, but for my car if I go to the dealer I'm going to get a reman axle, too, and probably from one of the same places that does remans for all the parts places.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:23 AM   #12
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At least the AZ reman axles have warranties.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
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Maybe newer cars are different, but for my car if I go to the dealer I'm going to get a reman axle, too, and probably from one of the same places that does remans for all the parts places.
Subaru has a reman axle program or you can spend $350 each and buy a new axle. For a car I track, I only use new OEM. I'd trust a subaru reman over AZ any day though.

Axle warranty isn't going to help you when your car hits a wall. If he'd gone back out, I'm pretty sure he'd have crashed it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:51 AM   #14
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Is there any benefit to buying aftermarket upgraded axles like ones from DSS?
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:51 AM   #15
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Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:11 PM   #16
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For an Integra I use new axles from Oreilly. They are $60 each for the new ones (not reman) and so far I've got 8 races on the ones I have in the car. I'll replace them here shortly just for the hell of it considering how much they cost.

-Tom
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
$1200? Any experience how long the stock ones last that came on the car? I assume you've gotten a new set since stock?
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:37 PM   #18
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I heard of someone who's flywheel bolt snapped off during a track day, really screwed up his engine
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:39 PM   #19
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I learned from rallying to nut/bolt the car before every event (using diff color paintmarker each time) and to check certain critical areas (wheels/steering/wheel bearings/brakes) whenever possible. This saved my ass in the Neon at VIR full course when I fried a front caliper and would have been out on track with brake fluid leaking out.

IMO vehicle maintenance should be a bigger topic in the classroom sessions as I've been appalled at what some people go out on track with, mostly because they don't know any better....
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:51 PM   #20
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I've heard of a porsche owner.. who knew about his radiator hose, which would pop off ocassionally.. he took it to the track and the hose blew.. causing 2 s2k's to be totaled at the event.

we cant catch all the failures that might happen.. but maintenance not only keeps the driver safe, but other drivers on the track.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
IMO vehicle maintenance should be a bigger topic in the classroom sessions as I've been appalled at what some people go out on track with, mostly because they don't know any better....
This is a pet peeve of mine too. Especially when they're dumping fluids on the track in front of me. I give my track buddies crap because they're not nearly as proactive keeping their car's maintained. I've actually reported people who I considered to be a threat out on track. You see they have paper thin pads for instance and you know they're likely to be a problem.

Quote:
$1200? Any experience how long the stock ones last that came on the car? I assume you've gotten a new set since stock?
When I initially did the 6 speed swap, I wanted to continue to use the Legacy GT brakes. To do that, I needed conversion axles that mated the R180 to WRX hubs. Since then, I've done a full STI swap including STI hubs so, I didn't need to use these axles any more and I went back to stock STI axles. I've not had the stock STI axles wear out. Track driving just doesn't seem that hard on them.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
I ran the DSS axles for awhile on the rally Neon and while I agree with you I don't think there is a much better option available for most cars (esp fwd). The boots expand at high speed and interfere with some coilovers (too big and too floppy) and for some cars they make them too long and they get the clunking because of binding in the outer CV when you run alot of negative camber (my Neon could run 2deg no problem - more clunked). The fix is to get them to put a shorter bar in and run small zip ties on the boots to prevent them from growing at speed. The axle nut is a small issue to me, since DSS axle nuts suck and OEM axle nuts are like $3 at the dealer.

The last place I would expect any axle to fail (other than the isolated failure described above) is on track. Unless you are making obscene torque and rough on the car it *shouldn't* happen. But if you rally/rally-x, autocross or otherwise drive like a hooligan it seems to be either DSS or OEM STI parts to keep it together. Unless you can afford what they run in the PWRC
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:56 PM   #23
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The axle nut is a small issue to me, since DSS axle nuts suck and OEM axle nuts are like $3 at the dealer.
To me it's a sign that they tend to 1/2 ass things. You see small stuff like that and it makes you wonder what other ways they're trying to short change you.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:12 PM   #24
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Another comment in case any track noobs read this - you need to watch your wheel bearings closely and understand what is going on to avoid potential failures like this....When you install the axle nut I recommend putting a paint mark on it to give you a quick visual to see if it's trying to back off. You should also periodically check the torque on the nut - if it's loosening yet the paint mark is static (which it should be since Scoobys are staked) your bearing is trashed regardless of whether you find play at the wheel. Retorquing is not a good idea, unless you do it to limp home.....The bearing is already trashed and the last thing you should do is pump more force/heat through it!

My bet on this Integra is that the inner races of the bearing were chewed up, the torque at the axle nut was gone and the hub/bearing were wobbling/vibrating like crazy while on track....it finally cracked the axle from the stress and shock loading that it went through to keep the wheel on the car.

And FWIW - I'm not a wheel bearing engineer, just someone who raced a car with lots of wheel bearing problems and probably has been through more issues with this than all of your friends put together My 20T shop press used to be my best friend!
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #25
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He'd just had his wheel bearing replaced. I'm more inclined to think either the shop over torqued the bolt or that axle was just defective. On the other wheel bearing comments, I agree 100%.

Integra's aren't prone to wheel bearing problems like our subaru's. Honda had a problem in the early 90's like the subaru's and they re-engineered and fixed it. They use to have problems with wheel bearings and cracked hubs.
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