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Old 02-01-2023, 01:02 AM   #1
atomicmecha
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Default Innovate Motorsports ethanol gauge as flex fuel? voltage drops and jumps

working on tuning my 07 STi for flex fuel. Because of the cobb green initiative I thought I'd have to go open source for my new tune but my tuner found away around that somehow. Because of the open source I wanted a way to see what my gas mix was at while driving and because I didn't think I'd have the AP anymore I brought one of the ethanol content gauges from innovate motorsports. Got it wired up and working. It shows 10.1% which is expected considering the stations around here say gas contains up to 10% ethanol. Per the instructions I used the yellow wire as an analog data out and made a plug to the TGV port like any of the flex fuel kits would. I'm seeing a voltage reading but its not very stable. It will bounce around a lot and sometimes go to zero during a WOT pull. Gauge on the dash never flickers or moves. I even put a small splash of e85 in just to make sure the gauge did work and had it jump to 11.3%. Voltage also went up by a few decimals places but still jumps around like crazy.

I'm curious if anyone else is running the same gauge to do their flex fuel and having the same voltage jumping? Or if anyone knows if this is just normal? Or is there something I need to change with the setup? Need to figure this part out before we start doing any flex fuel tuning.
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Old 02-01-2023, 10:24 AM   #2
benflynn
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I use innovate, you have to get the ground as close as possible and then there is a smoothing factor that will settle it down even more.
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Old 02-01-2023, 10:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
I use innovate, you have to get the ground as close as possible and then there is a smoothing factor that will settle it down even more.
Normal I will see 72-76% bounce before smoothing( I don’t think I see the smoothing logging raw data but the afr smooths out). I never see zero
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
I use innovate, you have to get the ground as close as possible and then there is a smoothing factor that will settle it down even more.
where did you ground yours?

for my setup I put the gauge and 2 others in a triple pod where the clock was. I redid the pigtail to the clock with my own connector that gave me the 12v constant, 12v ign, ground, and lights on/off signal for all the gauges. Seemed the easiest way to get them wired up. Then just ran the analog back out the firewall to the TGV plug. Should I run a ground from the same TGV plug back and ground the ethanol gauge to that?
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:30 PM   #5
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First I grounded to one of the switches by the fog lights. Then I moved the power to the rear o2 and grounded at manifold. I have best success at manifold ground and rear o2 ground.
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:33 PM   #6
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Only prob with the tgv ground is I use ecb-1 and ecf-1 and I have to power the o2 heater and I feel that might be much for the tgv ground, but if just using the E85 % and temp gauge it would prob be ok at the tgv ground. Try manifold ground first and see if it cleans up. I have a spare E85/fuel temp gauge You can try if all else fails.
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Old 02-22-2023, 09:39 AM   #7
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OP, have an update on it? Did changing the ground help smooth out and stabilize the signal?
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Old 03-07-2023, 02:49 PM   #8
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I'm seeing the same thing. I'll try a different ground next week and report back.
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Old 03-07-2023, 07:31 PM   #9
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Pro tip, while tuning flash the e% into the default field and unplug the converter input. This will flatten out ur afr so u can tune. Then when done set it back to normal. The amount drift I normally see is not noticeable during operation but is hard to tune around. My noisy signals are also on some of my oem sensors. I might throw a capacitor on the 5v and ground. How we use to clear these things up on megasquirt
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Old 03-07-2023, 07:32 PM   #10
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On a diy flex converter, power the sensor off rear o2 or something 12v and run the arduino off the tgv 5v and ground. That should work.
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Old 03-08-2023, 02:44 PM   #11
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My ECF-1 ethanol output is like +/- .03v. I've tried battery ground, manifold ground, rear o2 ground. Talked to one of the Auto Meter guys during SEMA about the issue and he told me to try grounding it to the ECU (customer support ghosted me on this issue after a few emails, lol).

Off topic, anyone know how to prevent voltage drop to the ECF-1 during cranking? Its wired up to a 12v ignition source.
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Old 03-08-2023, 02:44 PM   #12
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double post
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Old 03-08-2023, 03:03 PM   #13
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Nothing will prevent voltage drop during cranking, your pulling a billion amps while starting.
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Old 03-08-2023, 03:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Nothing will prevent voltage drop during cranking, your pulling a billion amps while starting.
I've wired an ECF-1 for a friend's 2018 STI and it doesn't have the same issue as my car (1999 Impreza). My gauge resets and/or the wideband gets stuck at E9 (low voltage).

edit:

Power from rear o2 prevents the ECF-1 from resetting but it still gets stuck on "HTR" or "E9" (low voltage). Hard wired it to the battery with a relay, only flashes "E9" once and no longer gets stuck on "HTR" or "E9" when cranking.

Last edited by 00redobs; 05-21-2023 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:21 PM   #15
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My ecb1 will error on the wb and I’ll cycle the power and it will work. It reads .8afr off and cuts off and back on twice a day doing untold damamge to my fuel model for a moment. I have a new ecf1 here I’m going to swapp
It out. I have gone through 2 map sensors and my roommates ecb1 won’t read map input.

Every other innovate product I have used has been flawless aside from occasional Bosch sensor dieing. These seem to be a bit fragile, or dosnt suffer foolish installation lightly.
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00redobs View Post
I've wired an ECF-1 for a friend's 2018 STI and it doesn't have the same issue as my car (1999 Impreza). My gauge resets and/or the wideband gets stuck at E9 (low voltage).
Where is it wired? How is ur battery?
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Old 03-08-2023, 08:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benflynn View Post
Where is it wired? How is ur battery?
Right now receiving 12v from the ABS/Cruise fuse and grounded to manifold. Originally it was receiving power from the rear o2. Battery is only 4 months old.

The ECF-1 has done this ever since the day I installed it 8 months ago.

edit:

Resolved, https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=14.

Last edited by 00redobs; 05-21-2023 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 03-23-2023, 03:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kopele View Post
I'm seeing the same thing. I'll try a different ground next week and report back.

Moved ground from the chassis to the TGV ground and works much better.
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Old 04-20-2023, 03:40 PM   #19
00redobs
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This seems to be a common problem with Innovate gauges outputting incorrect analog values.

Here are some grounds I tested with the ECF-1 being fed power from the rear O2. ECF-1 ethanol output goes to the rear O2 as well.

Grounding to intake manifold and ECF-1 showing 74% ethanol, ECU sees between 72.4% and 75.3% ethanol.

Grounding to battery-chassis ground and ECF-1 showing 73.9% ethanol, ECU sees between 71.8% and 74.5% ethanol.

Grounding to rear O2 ground and ECF-1 showing 74.3%, ECU sees between 67.9% and 81.5%.
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Old 04-23-2023, 10:13 PM   #20
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What matters is if it’s consistent, it can be off without any real impact
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