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Old 05-28-2019, 07:42 AM   #1
warpwar
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Default Timing and A/F on an EJ20X Swapped Baja Turbo

A summary is that the EJ255 engine in my 2005 Baja Turbo spun a rod bearing badly.

I didn't have the money for a used or rebuilt Stock engine, so I bought a JDM EJ20X engine and used it as a long block, the cars original intake+engine harness/exhaust/rebuilt turbo are on the "new" EJ20X engine, using the original cars ecu.

It seems to be fine, no running/driving issues, no CELs.
I've put about 250 miles on it, normal city/highway, just not wot or racing it.

I'm running E85 in it.

Pulling a learning view table in romraider however shows a lot of timing knock issues, and the A/F ratio isn't good either.

https://imgur.com/sKJqcQl

I'm a novice at this, can it be this off and still run and drive just fine, without even a check engine light?

I made a couple of logs as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Thank You.
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:41 PM   #2
warpwar
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As a test, I put a spare MAF in it and drove it, it apparently didn't like it, mid drive there must have been a leak and it set the #1A trim from 0.3% to -15%.
I put the old MAF back in.

Should I try to test the knock sensor? it's the one from the original engine, the plug was different vs the EJ20X's, so I swapped it onto the block.

I pulled a copy of the rom out of the ecu, I have it attached to my post on romraider forums
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=15&t=15833

I'll look into the possibility of taking it to a tuner, but I'm pretty sure the closest one is about 2 hours away near Harrisburg.

I know I'm dropping a big open-ended problem on you guys, I'm looking for advice as where to start? Should I continue to investigate possible mechanical issues, or look into making adjustments like altering the timing?

Thanks.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:51 PM   #3
pcampbell
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Is it tuned for E85?

Meaning... have you added fuel across the board ? E85 requires you to add some large % (like 25%?) more fuel than E10 or E0.
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Old 10-17-2019, 02:30 AM   #4
SlammedSix
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As they said in ROMRAIDER you need to pull alot of timing from the tune.

I have an EJ20x in my 08 STI and tuned the car myself. I was running on 91 Octane here but i was seeing about 10 degrees less timing from a comparable EJ255 with the same turbo/injector. Here is the last timing map i had...obviously timing under boost and load is where it was very noticeable
EJ20x Vs. EJ255

Last edited by SlammedSix; 10-17-2019 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:03 PM   #5
BajaTim
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Hi. What year/model was the JDM EJ20X that you bought?

2004-05 out of a JDM. Legacy?

or 2006-10 or 2008-12 out of something else? (Legacy? Outback? WRX?)

Current prices are $599-750 for the 2004-05 vs. $1400+ for the 2006+ (both with 45-60k).

One vendor is saying I need a JDM EJ205 from a JDM Forester but I have not seen that swap online (see 3 EJ20X into Bajas including yours).

Thanks,

Tim
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:54 PM   #6
SlammedSix
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I have the older Ej20x. The easiest difference is the older one is no air injection ports or pump on it.

Z20 stamped heads for no air injection.
U20 stamped heads for air injection ports.

The proper motor that should be installed in your Baja is a EJ205 with AVCS.

I have an 08 STi, my car comes with dual avcs already so this motor is basically plug and play for my car
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedSix View Post
As they said in ROMRAIDER you need to pull alot of timing from the tune
Between the difference in stroke (and thus rod ratio) and the higher compression ratio in the EJ20X, yeah, definitely less timing.

I know in the EJ20X thread a lot of talk about installing the exhaust cam gears one tooth off to take 7* of timing out of the cams too.



When you did the swap, did you swap all of your manifolds, electronics, harness, etc. over to the EJ20X?
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Old 05-28-2020, 12:30 PM   #8
SlammedSix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Between the difference in stroke (and thus rod ratio) and the higher compression ratio in the EJ20X, yeah, definitely less timing.

I know in the EJ20X thread a lot of talk about installing the exhaust cam gears one tooth off to take 7* of timing out of the cams too.



When you did the swap, did you swap all of your manifolds, electronics, harness, etc. over to the EJ20X?
I used the long block, used all my 08 STi electronics, turbo and manifolds on that motor.
I was running 22lbs of boost and running the car to 8k. This little motor felt nice, I just added a little too much timing trying to find my 91 octane limit and I cracked a piston.

For 800 bucks that I got the motor for is well worth it. It comes with a 12mm oil pump, sti style pan, dual avcs heads that flow very well. Also the pistons are very beefy. I dont know what they are made out of but definately not the same as OEM US piston.
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Old 05-28-2020, 07:49 PM   #9
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Sorry, the swap question was meant for the OP.

As for the pistons, claimed to have drop forged crowns (still a cast piston blank), anodized top ringland as well.
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:00 PM   #10
SlammedSix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Sorry, the swap question was meant for the OP.

As for the pistons, claimed to have drop forged crowns (still a cast piston blank), anodized top ringland as well.
I have the pistons out...there is some real weight to those things. And they definitely look like a different material than OE
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:02 AM   #11
BajaTim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedSix View Post
I have the older Ej20x. The easiest difference is the older one is no air injection ports or pump on it.

Z20 stamped heads for no air injection.
U20 stamped heads for air injection ports.

The proper motor that should be installed in your Baja is a EJ205 with AVCS.

I have an 08 STi, my car comes with dual avcs already so this motor is basically plug and play for my car

I haven’t seen a single “sucessful” post of a EJ205 into a Baja (or Forester/Outback XT or Legacy GT) - but as I mentioned, I’ve seen 3 examples of successful EJ20X into Bajas - they all said plug n’ play (just swap over USDM EJ255 manifold & sensors) EXCEPT of course the JDM exhaust AVCS won’t work - but engine will “run fine - not at full JDM power - preferably with a tune”. Brian from iWire said (in an email) that both of the EJ20X examples I showed him (2006-12 & 2008-14) would work. He said key was for engine to be DBW, 3-wire cam position sensor.

Do you know if the JDM EJ205 is DBW, with the 3-wire cam position sensor?

Thanks - appreciate your input.
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:24 PM   #12
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I'm pretty sure the JDM EJ205 were the two wire like the EJ207...but not certain.
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:31 PM   #13
SlammedSix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaTim View Post
I haven’t seen a single “sucessful” post of a EJ205 into a Baja (or Forester/Outback XT or Legacy GT) - but as I mentioned, I’ve seen 3 examples of successful EJ20X into Bajas - they all said plug n’ play (just swap over USDM EJ255 manifold & sensors) EXCEPT of course the JDM exhaust AVCS won’t work - but engine will “run fine - not at full JDM power - preferably with a tune”. Brian from iWire said (in an email) that both of the EJ20X examples I showed him (2006-12 & 2008-14) would work. He said key was for engine to be DBW, 3-wire cam position sensor.

Do you know if the JDM EJ205 is DBW, with the 3-wire cam position sensor?

Thanks - appreciate your input.
Well it's not so much that's it's a 3 wire sensor motor. Because the ej20x comes with 2 wire sensors on the exhaust and I'm blanking right now but I believe on the intake side too. It is more of the fact that the camshaft is in the correct orientation for the square wave to be interpreted by the ecu. This is why you can drop your sensors on the motor and it runs. The downside besides the oil control valve sitting there is the camshaft timing being locked at 0 degrees is not the way the motor was designed to run. If you look at the map it will always be advanced in higher rpm, which means it locked at 0 is having it retarded at all times.

Now a EJ205 Avcs motor has the inverted style of pickup on the camshaft. This is why it is not a "direct drop in" for US cars. But it takes some ingenuity to make the motor work in a US car but this motor is the correct motor and will run correctly on a us EJ Avcs motor.

I have installed both motors in US electronics cars and have no issues. So it's really personal preference I guess.

1 motor is straight forward drop in but will have exhaust cams degreed wrong and oil control valves that are not used and the other takes a few more add ons to work and be a real replacement
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:56 PM   #14
BajaTim
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Great explanation - now I understand (somewhat for a motor moron.

It’s funny that I’m not getting a straight answer from JDM vendors to my question: “does this EJ20X have a DBW 3-wire cam position sensor?” - they just have to walk over and look - correct? I mean they could send me a pic abd I could compare pic to Subaru parts pics of sensors.

So I will check about the camshaft position sensors again (and maybe ask for a pic) - I’m assuming all 4 would be of the same type - again I was told they were 3-wire so that intake sensors would be connected to USDM ECU and exhaust sensors would simply not be connected (as there is no wiring to ECU) with camshaft staying in a conservative (less powerful) position - with a future possible tune able to compensate for this somewhat (of find JDM ECU with iWire harness to hook up exhaust AVCS) - this occurring if I ever get another $1k or so - right now trying to keep total cost under $2k (assuming this swap will bring my otherwise solid Baja back to the $6500-7500 value from its current $500-$1000).

I really want to keep this as simple as “time is money” and I’ll
be paying a mechanic hourly - which points to the EJ20X as a “less functional/desirable” solution, but “easier & quicker”.
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:57 PM   #15
BajaTim
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And thank you again for your advice.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:08 AM   #16
SlammedSix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaTim View Post
Great explanation - now I understand (somewhat for a motor moron.

It’s funny that I’m not getting a straight answer from JDM vendors to my question: “does this EJ20X have a DBW 3-wire cam position sensor?” - they just have to walk over and look - correct? I mean they could send me a pic abd I could compare pic to Subaru parts pics of sensors.

So I will check about the camshaft position sensors again (and maybe ask for a pic) - I’m assuming all 4 would be of the same type - again I was told they were 3-wire so that intake sensors would be connected to USDM ECU and exhaust sensors would simply not be connected (as there is no wiring to ECU) with camshaft staying in a conservative (less powerful) position - with a future possible tune able to compensate for this somewhat (of find JDM ECU with iWire harness to hook up exhaust AVCS) - this occurring if I ever get another $1k or so - right now trying to keep total cost under $2k (assuming this swap will bring my otherwise solid Baja back to the $6500-7500 value from its current $500-$1000).

I really want to keep this as simple as “time is money” and I’ll
be paying a mechanic hourly - which points to the EJ20X as a “less functional/desirable” solution, but “easier & quicker”.
Yes you can just ask for a picture of the cam sensor and they can tell you.
It looks like from the pictures that the EJ20x with air injection does have a 3 wire cam sensor on it. My EJ20x without air injection did not come with 3 wire sensors
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:25 PM   #17
BajaTim
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Thanks - I will ask them to send me pic.

By “air injection” - do you mean “air pump” or “secondary air pump” - I saw a few ads for “2008-2012 EJ20X ABCS with air pump”.

Have seen zero mention of air pumps on 2004-05 EJ20Xs...so I am thinking the addition of the secondary air pump was the “revision” I have seen (barely) mentioned about the EJ20X.

To sum up, in the face of contradictory info, I really need to confirm the details to avoid wasting time or having to send an engine back.

Thanks again!
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