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Old 05-22-2014, 11:08 PM   #1
RavensFan7
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Default Power Steering delete thread -- Depower your rack!

**This was all done on a steering rack from a 2001 Impreza. Your rack, clamps, crossmember, and hardlines may or may not be different....but it should all be very similar.

I've had a few people ask me about this, and figured others might find it useful if I made a thread to contain all the info. Most of the info is from a DIY p/s delete thread on RS25 and a member on here.

Here's a link to the RS25 thread. Again, most of the info came from the guys over there, and I never would have considered doing it without their help : http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t751...ng-delete.html



If the delete is done right daily driving is no problem. Nice bit of weight reduction and clutter removal in the engine bay. There's a few ways to go about this:

1. Delete the pump, reservoir, hard lines and p/s fluid.....the full delete.Requires removing the steering rack.



2. Bypass the pump with the smaller belt to get a feel for what it's like. You keep everything but shouldn't be a permanent option.
Doesn't require removing the steering rack.

3. Pull the pump and loop the lines keeping the fluid and hard lines.
Doesn't require removing the steering rack.

4. Remove the pump, reservoir, hardlines, and fluid......same as the full delete....but you also disassemble the rack itself. You will remove the inner diaphragms, and weld the quill to remove any slack in the system.....finish off by welding closed the ports on the outside.

This is the REAL way to finalize the delete. Definitely not necessary, but this will make things as good as they can get. 69Cadillac posted it a few posts down, and I think he also mentions it in his own build thread.

---------

1. The right way, but most involved. It also will not allow you to switch back to power steering....unless you buy a new rack, or somehow clean the grease out.
Easiest to turn the wheel. Makes daily driving possible.


2. The easiest and just requires a smaller belt from the crank to alternator. This will give a similar feeling to the full delete but will be harder to turn the wheel.

I suggest trying that first, to get a feel for it. If it seems tolerable, just know it will be EASIER with the full delete. You will need the belt anyway if you continue on.

3. If you are concerned about your rack or don't want to fully committ....you can just pull the power steering pump and/or reservoir, and loop the hard lines wherever easiest for you. I wouldn't do it this way, but it's an option.

Just know, this will be harder to turn the wheel than the full delete....but easier than just the smaller belt. So it's in the middle.
Reason being, you're working against all the fluid still in the rack, but not the pump.

4. Also the right way. Really the best way. Just even more involved than #1. I haven't done this part yet, so I can't really be of much help.

This should make steering effort even easier, and as close to a real manual rack as possible.

------
------

Here's a quick summary of what to do:

-Get a smaller crank to alternator belt.

For 97-01 Impreza's and 02-05 wrx the max belt length you can use is 28". I can't confirm exact numbers for earlier or later years but it's all very similiar.

I can personally confirm the belts listed below WILL work on:
--> 98-01 Impreza, ej22 and ej25
--> 02-05 wrx, ej205
--> 05-06 Legacy GT, ej255

They will most likely fit any EJ engine. As long as the alternator brackets are close to the engines listed above, it will work.


--I used a 27" length belt from Advance:
Part# 274K4

--Another member used a 27.55" belt from Advance:
Part# 275K4 ---> (from '82 ford escort)

--Also another belt a member mentioned:
Duralast # 268K3


I couldn't find a 5-rib belt anywhere, but 3 or 4 rib will work just fine. Just go to an advance or something, and ask for belts in a 27" length, and see what options they have.






-Get the pump, reservoir, and steering rack out however you have to. If your car is like mine, it involves breaking bolts and swearing. I'm not sure of the differences between years and models for this stuff so I left it out.

-Then look at your rack. It should have 4 fittings coming off for the hardlines. Two on the metal "body" of the rack, and two by the pinion gear. You will see exactly where when you pull the rack.



Again, you have options:

1. Cut all 4 hard lines off and smash/bend/seal them closed to keep dirt out.
--> this WILL work fine, but will be harder to turn the wheel than the option below:

2. Loop the two lines on the "body" and close off the two by the gear.

-I looped the two on the body, and made "plugs" or for the other two out of the old fittings.
There's lots of ways to plug and loop the lines....it's not a hydraulic system anymore so the pressure is much less.....therefore the connections don't have to be as tight/perfect.









-Then pull out the pinion gear. Clean off the fluid and factory grease....also clean out the gear housing best you can:

-Stuff it with the new grease and reinstall the pinion gear. Any wheel bearing grease will do. I wanted to try something different this time and decided on Lucas oil red-n-tacky.

Give it a few spins by hand to see how it feels and you are good to go. You can re-pull the gear and give another glob of grease if you want. The grease should work its way through the whole rack.

-After that you are done. Enjoy direct steering and no power steering leaks ever again....also about 15-20 lbs off the front end.

Complete steering rack assembly:



This will need some editing, let me know of mistakes and things I should add.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 04-15-2017 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:29 AM   #2
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So I'm wondering just how difficult the steering is. What size tires on your car?
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:18 AM   #3
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I have a weird size now, 215/50-16 but will have 205/55-16 eventually.

Tire size, vehicle weight and other stuff will determine how easy it is to steer.

My car is pretty light (2600) so it's easier for me.....if I'm not mistaken the STi's come with a quicker rack so that MIGHT make it a little easier for you....not sure though.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
I have a weird size now, 215/50-16 but will have 205/55-16 eventually.

Tire size, vehicle weight and other stuff will determine how easy it is to steer.

My car is pretty light (2600) so it's easier for me.....if I'm not mistaken the STi's come with a quicker rack so that MIGHT make it a little easier for you....not sure though.
Yep you have a light car with fairly narrow tires. A quicker rack actually makes for higher steering effort. I'd do this without hesitation on a car like yours but on my STi with 245 tires it may prove to be tiresome for a street car. Good write up though.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
Yep you have a light car with fairly narrow tires.
That's true.
Keep in mind the hard part of no power steering is only at a dead stop, and parking lot speeds. Normal and highway speeds, its not a problem.

...and for dead stops/parking, you just have to be moving ever so slightly...and steering is night and day over a complete stop...example:

Pulling out of a parking spot...while stopped, trying to turn the wheel is very hard.
Put it in first, and slowly move forward....before the clutch is even out and you are only creeping inches at a time...you can feel the steering get WAY easier.


Auto-x'ing might be the exception here.

Lots of quick turns at lower speeds are difficult. I don't auto-x, but I can imagine it would be tiring as hell driving fast through one of those courses!

It really depends on a lot of stuff how difficult the steering will be....not just weight and tires....While in a turn you can feel the steering get easier/harder depending on throttle input, or uneven road surfaces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
A quicker rack actually makes for higher steering effort.
This is what I was thinking, but wasn't sure....less turns overall, but more effort.....as opposed to my rack where it has more turns with slightly less effort. It's kind of a toss-up really.

Here's what I was told on rs25:

"With no power steering, you won't notice the difference between a 2.75 turn and 3.0 turn rack. It will suck just a tiny bit more at parking speeds."
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:01 PM   #6
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Get a bigger steering wheel, ever driven a old car? Power steering wasent so great so they still had big wheels, more tq easier to turn at slower speeds. Old race cars in the 50-60 no power steering huge steering wheels?
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke17 View Post
Get a bigger steering wheel, ever driven a old car? Power steering wasent so great so they still had big wheels, more tq easier to turn at slower speeds. Old race cars in the 50-60 no power steering huge steering wheels?
Yes, I drove a 66 Mustang (among other low-tech old cars) with power nothing and 4 wheel drum brakes for 4 years as my daily when I was a kid. A larger steering wheel essentially increases your rack ratio making it easier to turn the wheel but increasing the number of lock-to-lock turns - fail.
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:41 AM   #8
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I did this when my car was set up mostly for drag racing and was super light at 2400 lbs. It was tolerable on the street with skinny 195 60 15 tires. Parking sucked, but as soon as it moved 1 mph it was tolerable.

Then I changed the car over to handle better and be more comfy for street driving. At 3000 lbs with good suspension and wider stickier tires it sucked. I put the PS back in.
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Old 05-24-2014, 01:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post

Yes, I drove a 66 Mustang (among other low-tech old cars) with power nothing
Oh yea, I forgot a lot of you guys have probably driven an older car with a real manual rack....so you already know how what it's like and how to maneuver in parking lots.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
I did this when my car was set up mostly for drag racing and was super light at 2400 lbs. It was tolerable on the street with skinny 195 60 15 tires. Parking sucked, but as soon as it moved 1 mph it was tolerable.

Then I changed the car over to handle better and be more comfy for street driving. At 3000 lbs with good suspension and wider stickier tires it sucked. I put the PS back in.
You put yours back in? That's no fun... :P

My current one is doing great though! I basically followed your posts in the rs25 thread and couldn't be happier with it. The new one I'm about to put in is just a neater job with no cut lines.

...but I didn't think that couple hundred pounds and a little wider tires would make such a big difference....and now that you said it's really difficult at 3000 lbs I'm wondering if anyone with a GD or GR could do this?

I was thinking a bugeye with like 225's could manage....but now I'm not sure.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:43 PM   #10
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If you're going to go though all that work don't forget to weld the quill.






The above is how I (MIG) welded up the steering rack quill. Six plug welds altogether. Before pulling the trigger I used a drill press to sink a millimeter or two into the inner shaft on each of my 6 holes. I wanted better penetration and didn't want to worry about a surface weld shearing off the inner shaft. That outer shaft, with the hydraulic rings, is a case/tool hardened steel. Unless you've got super expensive bits don't try to drill or widen the holes on the outer shaft. You'll just break your drill bits.

Video of the slop you leave in the rack if you don't weld up the quill when de-powering it.

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 05-24-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 05-24-2014, 05:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Cadillac View Post
If you're going to go though all that work don't forget to weld the quill.
I was hoping you'd post here, to add that info about the quill and give more technical help.

Unfortunately I won't be welding it on my new rack either. I can't weld and don't feel like disassembling the rack and pinion gear again.

Maybe on a future rack I will, or later on....but that is a lot of slop!! I've read about it but never actually seen the play until that video.

I like how you shaved and filled all the port holes....looks much cleaner that way.

...but I thought you said to loop these 2 ports on the "body" section of the rack?:


Did you loop those, or fill them? Your pictures above look filled, but it might be the angle not allowing me to see the loop.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 05-24-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:48 PM   #12
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Here's how she looked when I finished. Greased her with Red Line Synthetic CV-2 Grease.It's depowered with all former hydraulic ports shaved/filled.


Not showcar quality, but for racing it looks good.


Installed


'Nother angle.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:42 PM   #13
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You do need to loop those two ports together, unless....


you cut the hydraulic diaphragm off the rack shaft (pink arrows). If you remove that diaphragm you won't get the air pressure build up in one chamber and a vacuum in the other chamber when you try to turn. By looping the two chambers together you give all the pressure somewhere to go while also keeping the system sealed from the environment.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:39 PM   #14
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Wow, thanks for that pic and info. Makes a lot of sense now.

Does that mean cutting the lines and smashing them closed is a bad idea, because the pressure won't have anywhere to go?

...but a loop or no diaphragms will allow the air pressure to move freely between left and right sides while steering?
Possibly helping steering effort and making the rack slide smoother?

Sometimes at low speeds I've noticed a weird vibration in the steering wheel if I turn the wheel too quickly....that's with and without power steering....I've discussed it with someone on rs25 but we weren't sure what caused it.

I didn't loop the ports on my last rack and I think doing it on this new one will make a big difference. Just like welding the quill, I'd love to remove the diaphragms but disassembling the whole rack and welding it shut looks like quite the task.

Yours is perfect. Done the right way and has NO lines, NO ports....you could never tell it was a hydraulic rack! Awesome work.
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:26 AM   #15
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Thanks for the compliment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
Sometimes at low speeds I've noticed a weird vibration in the steering wheel if I turn the wheel too quickly....that's with and without power steering....I've discussed it with someone on rs25 but we weren't sure what caused it.
That might be because of your steering rack: Unwelded quill bounce back or the closed off hydraulic push/pull piston "air springing". Might be a bad wheel bearing. Or, might be your tie rod is shot. Could also be your suspension bushings. Ball joints bad. Lots o' **** to check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
I didn't loop the ports on my last rack and I think doing it on this new one will make a big difference. Just like welding the quill, I'd love to remove the diaphragms but disassembling the whole rack and welding it shut looks like quite the task.
If you don't loop the hydraulic push/pull piston or take out it's diaphragm and seal off the ports the chambers will act like air springs resisting your turning effort. As you turn the air pressure will build up in the one chamber and vacuum will build in the other. Making steering much harder than just a manual rack. Especially at the extremes. It'll also want to "return to center" where the air pressure is equal in both chambers..

Last edited by 68Cadillac; 05-25-2014 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:54 AM   #16
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Default Power Steering delete thread -- Depower your rack!

Ok I can confirm a crank-to-alternator belt for 97-01 impreza's and 02-05 wrx...same belt I currently have on my ej22, and I tested it on my ej205 yesterday. I will add it into the original post.



Part number # 4PK0695 274K4

The max belt length is 28" and supposedly that's maxing out the alternator tensioner bolt....the one I used is 27" and seems to fit nicely.
I couldn't find a 5-rib belt anywhere, so this is a 4-rib.

Just go to an advance or something and ask for belts in a 27" length and match up the part number above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Cadillac View Post
Thanks for the compliment.

That might be because of your steering rack: Unwelded quill bounce back or the closed off hydraulic push/pull piston "air springing".....If you don't loop the hydraulic push/pull piston or take out it's diaphragm and seal off the ports the chambers will act like air springs resisting your turning effort.
Yeah it's definitely something in the rack, I can feel it. Not really a concern. The air springing sounds about right though.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 04-16-2015 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavensFan7 View Post
Ok I can confirm a crank-to-alternator belt for 97-01 impreza's and 02-05 wrx...same belt I currently have on my ej22, and I tested it on my ej205 yesterday. I will add it into the original post.



Part number # 4PK0695 2K474

The max belt length is 28" and supposedly that's maxing out the alternator tensioner bolt....the one I used is 27" and seems to fit nicely.
I couldn't find a 5-rib belt anywhere, so this is a 4-rib.

Just go to an advance or something and ask for belts in a 27" length and match up the part number above.



Yeah it's definitely something in the rack, I can feel it. Not really a concern. The air springing sounds about right though.
I had just purchased an alternator belt for my 94 Impreza wagon in order to do the ps delete. Gave about an inch left on the Alt tensioner to still mess around with when tightened. Drove it for a few hours and no problems with jumping on the belt at all. I'm pretty happy with it.

Driveworks V-Ribbed belt (Advance Auto Parts) $9.19
Part# 275K4

Part was for an 82 Ford Escort w/ 4 ribs and measures 27.55 in.

Last edited by Crvnch; 04-15-2015 at 08:36 PM. Reason: typo in year
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:55 PM   #18
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Default Power Steering delete thread -- Depower your rack!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA STI View Post
K040274RB

the belt is gripping ~50% of the pulleys vs like ~25% of the pulleys with the PS inplace. So a 4rib like this will still grip even better vs a 5rib belt in the stock triangle setup.
Wow, that never even crossed my mind. Very good point.


If you try the belt out and it works, I will add it to the original post with the other part number.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NA STI View Post
Any concerns for firewall flex?

Not really. It can't be any worse than the flex from the brake pedal....and it's a left and right movement vs. in/out with the pedals, so it should be minimal. I think?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvnch View Post
I had just purchased an alternator belt for my 94 Impreza wagon in order to do the ps delete. Gave about an inch left on the Alt tensioner to still mess around with when tightened. Drove it for a few hours and no problems with jumping on the belt at all. I'm pretty happy with it.

Driveworks V-Ribbed belt (Advance Auto Parts) $9.19
Part# 275K4

Part was for an 82 Ford Escort w/ 4 ribs and measures 27.55 in.

Awesome! I like seeing people try it.

I will add the part number to the original post.

It must be the next size belt up from mine.....yours is #275K4, and mine is #274K4. I can't remember what car mine is from, but it's good to see Advance carries other 27" sizes.
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Old 05-09-2015, 05:05 PM   #19
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I've recently deleted the ps in my 2009 WRX. Steering is a lot harder than I thought, but I reused the hardline to make a custom loop for the two sides of the diaphragm..... I'm thinking the hardline size may be too small or I have a blockage. I'll just unhook the ports to see if the effort gets better. I was also off a spline or two hooking the steering back up so my hill assist and traction control lights are lit. I have a little rework to do but hopefully I can improve the overall effort of the rack. I notice it tries to spring back to center around corners so I'm pretty sure it's an issue with the loop I did.

I was able to find a 5-rib from Gates that fits perfectly on a 2009. K050275
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:20 AM   #20
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what did you use to loop the two sides of the rack together sorry to resurrect this post
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:40 PM   #21
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Very solid info... I may try this out. lol I Already ordered a cool blue gates racing belt that *should* fit- K040274RB its only 4 rib but it dosnt matter since the belt is gripping ~50% of the pulleys vs like ~25% of the pulleys with the PS inplace. So a 4rib like this will still grip even better vs a 5rib belt in the stock triangle setup.

Any concerns for firewall flex?
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:08 AM   #22
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Adjustable power steering - might be the best thing since beer.

http://www.heidts.com/part/adjustabl...-valve-ps-101/







And while you're at it, increase the steering ratio by 2:1 or 1.5:1

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...ing-quickeners

Kinda relevant to this thread I hope, maybe alternative to depowering.

Last edited by joek92; 12-16-2015 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:38 PM   #23
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I'm hating this...

Just here to post info. Although 3 ribbed, a Duralast 268K3 or 268K3 has been working for me so far.
Quick fix until new pump arrives.

2005 Wagon with 225 tires. Not fun. Even at speed it'll fight you in corners. Steering feel is better but not "worth the hassle" better.
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Old 03-10-2016, 12:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UEDan View Post
I'm hating this...

Just here to post info. Although 3 ribbed, a Duralast 268K3 or 268K3 has been working for me so far.
Quick fix until new pump arrives.

2005 Wagon with 225 tires. Not fun. Even at speed it'll fight you in corners. Steering feel is better but not "worth the hassle" better.

Thanks for the info. I'm always interested how the GD's feel without p/s. Seems like a bugeye with significant weight reduction and 205-215's would be the only reasonable way....besides a 93-01 car, or older legacy.

I will also add the belt to the list.

I did something similar with my 06 LGT.....needed to temporarily bypass the pump to test something, and used the belt off my '01 Impreza. Worked fine.

At this point, it's almost safe to say the belts would work on all EJ engines. I can't confirm the ej18, ej22e, and phase 1 ej25's......but almost everything else uses basically the same alternator bracket and stuff.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:06 PM   #25
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I'm considering doing this - anyone running decent rubber with this mod ?

I have 255's at the moment with 7 degrees of castor in a GC8 turning when stationary (car off) is "quite" difficult how much difference without the fluid in the system ??
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