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Old 08-12-2017, 05:53 PM   #1
psi-man
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Member#: 410337
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default DAM stays at 12; Fine Knock Learning and Feedback knock at 0

02 WRX with stock EJ205 and 18gxt protuned.

Not sure what's going on but my DAM is at 12 and does not change. Fine Knock Learning and Feedback Knock both at 0 and does not change.

When I went to get my protune, the tuner said he was detecting knock but the ECU wasn't pulling timing so he dialed back my timing to be safe.

I don't have any CELs so I don't know if my knock sensor is good or bad.

Here's my datalog from today: 3rd gear pull.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9n...ew?usp=sharing

Any comments on my datalog are welcome.

My feel is there's more power to be had, just need to understand what's going on.

Thanks.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:17 PM   #2
ShinjiML
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Member#: 257231
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Vehicle:
2011 STI ShinjiTuned
DGM

Default

What's your full mod list? Fuel grade used? Are you running an EWG setup?

Lots of weird things in your map.

The reason DAM doesn't change is because your Knock Correction Advance is set way too low, probably below the threshold for DAM mode activation. Currently, it's set to 2*, while the default value is 4*. When you first flash a map, the car enters DAM mode by default, which means your DAM can change during that period, but after the DAM stabilized and the car exited DAM mode, the KCA value is now too low so it can't enter DAM mode anymore.

Also, your timing is extremely low under WOT, it's roughly half of what it should be. It's too low even if you were running an EWG. This should be giving you very high EGTs, which is not a good thing. What are your AFRs usually at? Can you log commanded fuel final? For you to not knock, you'd have to be running very rich AFRs. Of course, your knock sensor could have also been highly desensitized or the knock parameters turned off all together in the tune.

Your boost levels could also be higher given the turbo you're running.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:56 AM   #3
psi-man
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 410337
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default

Full mod list:

Stock EJ205
18g-xt 7cm
ID1000s
Cobb EBCS
GS Uppipe
Invidia 3" catless DP
GS Intercooler
GS Intercooler shroud
GS Intercooler pipe kit
Cobb turbo inlet
Stock airbox w/ stock filter
Stock cat back
91oct

I was shooting for 20psi and something close to 300/300 at the wheels. What I got was 265/258 and the car seemed to strain to get there. Also, the power curve is not smooth with weird hesitations here and there. And I'm not happy about the tons of lag.

Waiting for another tuner to get his dyno operational and having a new knock sensor installed before a retune.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:19 AM   #4
jon7009
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Member#: 394646
Join Date: Jun 2014
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Flex Fuel
EJ205 TD04L FMIC SD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinjiML View Post
What's your full mod list? Fuel grade used? Are you running an EWG setup?

Lots of weird things in your map.

The reason DAM doesn't change is because your Knock Correction Advance is set way too low, probably below the threshold for DAM mode activation. Currently, it's set to 2*, while the default value is 4*. When you first flash a map, the car enters DAM mode by default, which means your DAM can change during that period, but after the DAM stabilized and the car exited DAM mode, the KCA value is now too low so it can't enter DAM mode anymore.

Also, your timing is extremely low under WOT, it's roughly half of what it should be. It's too low even if you were running an EWG. This should be giving you very high EGTs, which is not a good thing. What are your AFRs usually at? Can you log commanded fuel final? For you to not knock, you'd have to be running very rich AFRs. Of course, your knock sensor could have also been highly desensitized or the knock parameters turned off all together in the tune.

Your boost levels could also be higher given the turbo you're running.
all of this. especially all of it.

Last edited by jon7009; 08-13-2017 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:15 PM   #5
psi-man
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Member#: 410337
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default

I don't get it.

I know the protune was not great but what specifically?

At the dyno session, the tuner had only one fan going and the car was not shut down between runs. It was heat soaking badly.

Also, the tuner says he detected knock but the car was not pulling timing. Although i have no CELs, my knock sensor is original at 135K miles. I'm not sure what he did but he said he pulled some timing and richened the fuel for safety.

He had me drive around for a bit with him trying to tune out the weird hesitations but he was only partly successful. Instead of bogging just after the tune, it's now down to minor hiccups. Sometimes on throttle tip-in and sometimes during a part throttle pulls (I do not generally go full throttle).
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Old 08-14-2017, 03:21 PM   #6
jon7009
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Member#: 394646
Join Date: Jun 2014
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Flex Fuel
EJ205 TD04L FMIC SD

Default

having been novice tuning ej205s mainly I have some interesting (to me) data between a few different ej205s that are all stock long-block but with varying mods.

if you're running say 91E10, you're going to want more timing than 91ACN because of the longer burn time of that fuel. I would think it's possible you're knocking from being too rich and too low of timing.

Replace the sensor in the correct angle to the crank and have another go at tuning.

The knock sensors when good are very sensitive. I've set mine up to group n settings which is way more sensitive for knock threshold than stock. Not sure what Cobb uses on their maps to start. Lots of things can cause false knock though, depending on when/where something is rattling in the engine bay you might see false feedback or fine learned knock depending. loose heat shields on the exhaust, too much movement in the cat-back and it hits the rear diff cage, intercooler pipes bumping the hood, or really any sort of metal to metal contact can trip the sensor. Noisy clutch parts and loose motor mounts, etc.

total timing should be more like 10 to 14 degrees at peak torque and 18 to 22 degrees at peak hp.

Last edited by jon7009; 08-14-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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