2022 Subaru WRX Official Announcement *Merged*

[fredzy]

I got some proper seat time in my bro's VB this weekend instead of just a quick spin around the block. My initial observations were that the VB feels and drives very smooth compared to my VA and that was 100% spot-on. On par with CTR, GRC in terms of quality feel (though they are all very different.) Hard to overstate how much more refined it feels than my old dubya.

I really like all that about it but the young guy in me couldn't help feel like maybe it was too smooth. Outside of some exhaust boom there's no rawness, hardly any implication of sporting intentions. Which CTR and GRC have lots of. It might have been the heat but the engine just didn't feel very strong. And yeah that rev limit comes up annoyingly quick. Decent response though. Heel-toe is a breeze, something I couldn't say outright like that about any of the current class of sporty cars I've owned/driven.

All he wanted was a new/modern 4-door appliance with a stick sift and an edge to it and it nails that. He got a smoking deal on his and at that price point CTR and GRC (even at MSRP) weren't even also-rans.

If the sights, sounds and feels of a performance car are important to you and you will have one car (and ~$10k+ extra in the pocket) you are best served with GRC, CTR, R. For most guys the WRX is still by far the smartest car.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[JustyWRC]

Nah. No no no. Nope. You're just wrong dude. It's a piece of trash and shouldn't even be offered. It embarrasses Subaru.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Can we get to talking about minivans?

when we were in Europe this summer, we rented a Peugeot Traveller with a Diesel. not terribly fast, but it had a ton of torque, and it had a manual transmission that felt better than I recall my '15 WRX having, it was extremely utilitarian, I can't recall, but I think the redline was higher than the WRX too.

over 600 miles on a tank of gas was easy.

the brakes were VERY touchy though, you could apply light braking and everything was fine, but if you needed to do some emergency stopping, whatever was in the back seat would suddenly be in the front seat.

anyway, I kind of wish Peugeot sold them over here.

[20WRX20]

For a daily driver, is there really any reason to buy a WRX aside from the “gotta have a manual” factor? I’d rather have a midsize truck, honestly. Same mpg, so much more capable, 4WD, more storage space, can take a beating, rides better, more comfortable on the highway. I didn’t notice a significant difference between the VA and VB models in terms of ride quality. Both are bouncy/harsh IMO.

Only issue is every midsize truck available for sale right now is a complete POS with tons of problems. Wouldn’t touch any of them.

[SCRAPPYDO]

WHat did you hear about the Ridgeline.... I have only heard it was bullet proof bud? Inquiring minds want to know.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

For a daily driver, is there really any reason to buy a WRX aside from the “gotta have a manual” factor? I’d rather have a midsize truck, honestly. Same mpg, so much more capable, 4WD, more storage space, can take a beating, rides better, more comfortable on the highway. I didn’t notice a significant difference between the VA and VB models in terms of ride quality. Both are bouncy/harsh IMO.

Only issue is every midsize truck available for sale right now is a complete POS with tons of problems. Wouldn’t touch any of them.

storage space is variable based on weather conditions.

I beat the snot out of my WRX, probably as much as any truck could be abused. it ran.

rides better is all relative.

more comfy on the highway, not sure about that.

unless you have an aversion to a CVT, just outback it. you can probably get a wilderness for under MSRP these days, and if I prioritized any of the above, the OBW will kick butt against any truck, aside from storage capacity in perfect weather, and then you just get a tow hitch and rent a small trailer when you need the space.

you want to talk about ride quality, the long wheelbase makes it smoother than a 70s caddy over rough surfaces and highway driving. no truck, not even the smaller unibody ones can say that.

anyway, in the sub $40,000 market there's not much that beats the OBW, unless you have an aversion to CVT.

[SCRAPPYDO]

The Unibody trucks like the Ridgeline ride very very well. I had an outback, and a Ridgeline. Neither was a burden to drive on the freeway. I would say depending on your family a Ridgeline may be the perfect vehicle. Small enough to easily drive and park, yet big enough to smooth out the bumps. It has an independent suspension and SH-AWD that is a blast to drive. It has a real 9 speed transmission and an amazing V6.

If I was in the market for a mid size truck, it would be Ridgeline all day. Although I have not driven the new frontier, or the new Ranger. But since those are BOF, I have low expectations.

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

WHat did you hear about the Ridgeline.... I have only heard it was bullet proof bud? Inquiring minds want to know.

I don’t consider that a truck. I tow with my trucks and never would hook a boat up to a Ridgeline and then tow it through the mountains. Body on frame all day for this purpose. Ridgeline is also limited to 5000 lbs. Thing costs more than a Colorado Z71. No thanks.

Unfortunately the Colorado, Tacoma, and Ranger are all garbage. Frontier isn’t perfect but seems better reliability-wise than the competition. Ridgeline also has reliability going for it, but see above. If you don’t tow then it may work for you.

[SCRAPPYDO]

IF I only had to tow 2500 lbs or less I would totally use a Ridgeline. But anything north of 3500 lbs, I would want a bit more headroom. I plan on towing a 3500 lb pontoon with my Grand Cherokee L. It is rated at 6200 lbs with the tow package. I should be fine. We will see next weekend. But I hear ya. You want something you have more trust in. Regardless of what the owners manual says. I understand your position

[Pre]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

WHat did you hear about the Ridgeline.... I have only heard it was bullet proof bud? Inquiring minds want to know.

It more or less is. 5 years with the current one and I had 3 years with the old Aztec Gen 1 version. Both versions remain the best road trip machines I’ve owned. I tow my toys with it, in the mountains where my land is to boot and it does everything I need. It remains the best “pavement” handling truck on the market. I paid $33.5k new for mine, back in 2019, so it wasn’t more expensive than this or that back then. Today I think my trim is $10k more, something like $42,500 and like most vehicles have significantly gone up in price.

I can tow my ski, my bikes in an enclosed trailer and now my car to the track with it. If you are towing heavy loads, sure, it’s not for you.

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

The VB WRX releases on Forza Horizon 5 this coming Thursday. I can't wait to try my best to make it look halfway decent.

Just click the Polish Turd button.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by Pre

It more or less is. 5 years with the current one and I had 3 years with the old Aztec Gen 1 version. Both versions remain the best road trip machines I’ve owned. I tow my toys with it, in the mountains where my land is to boot and it does everything I need. It remains the best “pavement” handling truck on the market. I paid $33.5k new for mine, back in 2019, so it wasn’t more expensive than this or that back then. Today I think my trim is $10k more, something like $42,500 and like most vehicles have significantly gone up in price.

I can tow my ski, my bikes in an enclosed trailer and now my car to the track with it. If you are towing heavy loads, sure, it’s not for you.

I think we as consumers, just need to rebel against this ****. There is absolutely no justification for that kind of increase. I think maybe some people are playing games post covid. Me thinks they do not want to come down on price. As there is NO shortage of supply. The only way to make things get cheaper is make them keep them on the lot until discounts are piled to the moon.

[21ej]

Since we’re off topic at the moment, has anyone paint matched their VA oem STI Lip kit? Front spoiler, side skirt extensions and rear spats.
I’d love to see how it looks.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

IF I only had to tow 2500 lbs or less I would totally use a Ridgeline. But anything north of 3500 lbs, I would want a bit more headroom. I plan on towing a 3500 lb pontoon with my Grand Cherokee L. It is rated at 6200 lbs with the tow package. I should be fine. We will see next weekend. But I hear ya. You want something you have more trust in. Regardless of what the owners manual says. I understand your position

I’ve seen you post this position a number of times Scrappy, and I’ve never really understood it. To be clear… your risk tolerance is your own, and I’m in no way looking to tell you what yours should be. You and I are similar ages and have similar engineering backgrounds though, and as such we both understand the result of compounding safety factors.

The engineering teams for certain are putting a safety factor on the chassis structure and tow vehicle/load ratio when determining a tow rating. Management is then almost certainly putting another safety factor on top of that. Then legal puts the icing on the cake to get what ends up in your owner’s manual. Is it really necessary to put another safety factor on top of that??? Again, only you can decide for yourself.

Consider this though… Most vehicles if they’re sold in Europe and North America will have vastly different tow ratings in each region. All my Subarus and my Golf Alltrack European tow ratings are nearly double what they are in North America. Having driven more that a few times in Europe, I can safely say that the mountain roads, winding B roads, and Autobhauns are just as potentially taxing as any roads I’ve driven in North America (and I would suggest more so). Europe is certainly no stranger to pushing the safety envelope, so I have no explanation for the difference other than the desire to sell more profitable larger vehicles in North America, and the overly litigious nature of North Americans.

I’ve been using trailers since before I earned my license in 1986 (sometimes did some work on farms when I was younger). In my early 30s when I started hauling heavier loads, I did some rough calculations based on vehicle/load ratios and found that the Europeans' were still more modest than those of North America’s larger trucks. To me if that ratio is good, and my brakes are up to the task, and I’m using a good quality hitch with trailer brakes (when necessary) and I’m paying attention to weighting my load correctly, then I don’t see why another safety factor on top of the manufacturer’s recommended is necessary. Personally I like being able to “feel” the trailer behind me, and if anything I find the lack of feel more disconcerting.

My longest heavy haul was taking my Elan +2 from Southern Ontario to SE Pennsylvania with my Golf Alltrack, about a 7 hour drive. Trailer + car total weight a little over 2600lbs. The tow rating for the Alltrack is very vague in Canada, and is not supposed to exceed the total cargo weight of 992lbs. The European tow rating is 3307lbs (braked)…, and 4409lbs if I could have got the diesel. A rather drastic difference for the exact same car. I have had much heavier loads behind it (gravel, stone etc.) but for much shorter local distances. Around 2 tons of stone/rock I'm sure. The same with my Legacy wagons (and Impreza wagon) before it. Never once have I felt anything even remotely sketchy.

Again, your risk tolerance is your own… but just something to think about if you prefer the way the Ridgeline drives.

[SCRAPPYDO]

All fair points. I did not grow up towing anything. I am still a relative newb to towing, but I no longer white knuckle it. My longest two was pulling my Z 5 hours to a show. It was in an older Tundra.

I Once thought how you thought about the tow rating. It started in much the same way as you questioning the widely differing ranges of tow ratings. It all seemed like an overly complex mix of many variables that have different weights on the results.

Input that into some standardized government mandated algorithm and a number is made.

I have a few guys here at JSC that have some family members in the car biz at the big three. When asked at how much margin on that tow rating these vehicle have they said ZERO. Not sure if that was due to the letigious nature as you mentioned, or just some CYA working on multiple levels.

Nice Elan by the way.

Probably one of the few cars that weighs less than my Datsun roadster. I am sure I am overly cautious. On that point I MUST concede.

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by brandon

I’ve seen you post this position a number of times Scrappy, and I’ve never really understood it. To be clear… your risk tolerance is your own, and I’m in no way looking to tell you what yours should be. You and I are similar ages and have similar engineering backgrounds though, and as such we both understand the result of compounding safety factors.

The engineering teams for certain are putting a safety factor on the chassis structure and tow vehicle/load ratio when determining a tow rating. Management is then almost certainly putting another safety factor on top of that. Then legal puts the icing on the cake to get what ends up in your owner’s manual. Is it really necessary to put another safety factor on top of that??? Again, only you can decide for yourself.

Consider this though… Most vehicles if they’re sold in Europe and North America will have vastly different tow ratings in each region. All my Subarus and my Golf Alltrack European tow ratings are nearly double what they are in North America. Having driven more that a few times in Europe, I can safely say that the mountain roads, winding B roads, and Autobhauns are just as potentially taxing as any roads I’ve driven in North America (and I would suggest more so). Europe is certainly no stranger to pushing the safety envelope, so I have no explanation for the difference other than the desire to sell more profitable larger vehicles in North America, and the overly litigious nature of North Americans.

I’ve been using trailers since before I earned my license in 1986 (sometimes did some work on farms when I was younger). In my early 30s when I started hauling heavier loads, I did some rough calculations based on vehicle/load ratios and found that the Europeans' were still more modest than those of North America’s larger trucks. To me if that ratio is good, and my brakes are up to the task, and I’m using a good quality hitch with trailer brakes (when necessary) and I’m paying attention to weighting my load correctly, then I don’t see why another safety factor on top of the manufacturer’s recommended is necessary. Personally I like being able to “feel” the trailer behind me, and if anything I find the lack of feel more disconcerting.

My longest heavy haul was taking my Elan +2 from Southern Ontario to SE Pennsylvania with my Golf Alltrack, about a 7 hour drive. Trailer + car total weight a little over 2600lbs. The tow rating for the Alltrack is very vague in Canada, and is not supposed to exceed the total cargo weight of 992lbs. The European tow rating is 3307lbs (braked)…, and 4409lbs if I could have got the diesel. A rather drastic difference for the exact same car. I have had much heavier loads behind it (gravel, stone etc.) but for much shorter local distances. Around 2 tons of stone/rock I'm sure. The same with my Legacy wagons (and Impreza wagon) before it. Never once have I felt anything even remotely sketchy.

Again, your risk tolerance is your own… but just something to think about if you prefer the way the Ridgeline drives.

You’re ignoring the fact that European trailers are designed with a 4% tongue weight in mind. US is 10%. EU also limits speeds for towing - US ratings are for highway speeds. Germany, for example, is 50 mph. With an American trailer you need 10-15% tongue weight to safely tow that car at highway speeds. What is that aftermarket hitch rated for, 250 lbs? You failed already before leaving the driveway.

Tow ratings exist for a reason. Next time do some research before going all “hurr durr I saw someone tow a trailer with this car overseas, it can be done!” My friend did this and was convinced his WRX could tow a jet ski even though the owners manual states not to tow a trailer of any kind with a WRX. It was fun watching that car virtually grenade itself while towing.

Only an absolute moron would open themselves up to this kind of liability. When towing, you don’t mess around like this. I’ve seen people killed trying to bend the rules with their POS overloaded tow vehicles. Play by the book or don’t tow at all.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I think we as consumers, just need to rebel against this ****. There is absolutely no justification for that kind of increase. I think maybe some people are playing games post covid. Me thinks they do not want to come down on price. As there is NO shortage of supply. The only way to make things get cheaper is make them keep them on the lot until discounts are piled to the moon.

Scraps, I paid $33.5k (invoice). MSRP was $36,700 (just looked it up) + $1,095 destination charge. So $37,795. It took me 3 months and several dealerships to get this price (because I also was trading my RS in and I wanted top dollar for it). Mine is a RTL AWD but this was the only year (back then) that you could get a Ridgeline loaded with moonroof, rear sliding glass, all the RTL-E features sans Navigation/Premium audio, LED lights (I added them in the aftermarket, real LED’s, not the fake blue lights), and the in bed speakers which I have absolutely no use for. The RTL AWD trim had the same tri-zone climate control, heated leather seats, and while it didn’t come with the heated steering wheel like the RTL-E, you could add it to the RTL trim for $500, which I did. All I did was skip that RTL-E trim, got a RTL, then turned mine into my own RTL-E as I didn’t want to pay $42,500 for that trim and made my own instead with aftermarket roll up tonneau with dual deadbolts, full aftermarket audio with amp and sub, and aftermarket alarm that works off the phone. I took the delta I saved from the E trim, spent that money in the aftermarket, new wheels/tires, PPF, a long list of chit and even modded (no performance mods) I saved thousands.

2024, same trim, with destination, $44,375. I don’t know if now comes with the heated wheel but lets assume it doesn’t, so add in $500 for that.

So the MSRP price increase is exactly $6,580 (destination cost went up $300).

So 2019 to 2024 MSRP increase is 17% and change. But the biggest difference is in 2019, you could work a deal on any trim below the RTL-E and get a few thousand off. That’s much harder to pull off now and was near impossible 1-2 years ago. Maybe now in 2024 it is possible to get a few K’s off. Just wanted to be crystal since you owned one. Yeah approx $6500 increase in cost is way inflated to me. $500 increase per year would be reasonable or $2500 total. Instead, $6500. But I think you’ll find this methodology has been applied to most makes and models during this timeframe. It’s as if the manus said well hell, supply shortages, covid this and that, hey F it, lets keep the price increases up anyways, even after supply chain issues have been sorted.

Looking back, it was 100% the right decision for me. I have a truck in the fleet, that does every truck thing I need, and I got it cheap, real cheap compared to today or compared to a full size BOF, which I loathe driving. You know how good it is or how much better it is than BOF with the SH-AWD system, and being unibody. Now with the population explosion that has happened here, when I drive it, I’m just praying someone doesn’t take me out as it would cost me $10k+ to replace it even with a full insurance payout because how much vehicles cost today. I’m so looking forward to swapping my DD for a newer one next March and being out of this car market for 10+ years. These current prices on vehicles are ridiculous in most cases. It almost made my skin crawl last year buying the CE, even though I saved for 4 years for it, having to pay MSRP and take a 5.49% rate on a $23,500 loan.
I want out of this game. I have 3-4 more vehicles to purchase but they are all at the powersports store and any increases in price place in comparison to the automotive market.

[Straight6]

This FA24DIT continues to impress! 340 whp on 93 pro tune with stock exhaust...Incredible potential in this motor . Love it!

https://www.facebook.com/primemotori...7Eq6boAgY49hYl

[Apb_pools]

Platform needs a relatively cheap solution for port injection so guys can reach 500-600whp on stock motor hybrids or bigger turbo setups. Cars are capable of 400+/450+ on stock turbo and fueling on ethanol.

Someone needs to make an intake w ports and threaded holes for injector rails really, thats all.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

You’re ignoring the fact that European trailers are designed with a 4% tongue weight in mind. US is 10%. EU also limits speeds for towing - US ratings are for highway speeds. Germany, for example, is 50 mph. With an American trailer you need 10-15% tongue weight to safely tow that car at highway speeds. What is that aftermarket hitch rated for, 250 lbs? You failed already before leaving the driveway.

Tow ratings exist for a reason. Next time do some research before going all “hurr durr I saw someone tow a trailer with this car overseas, it can be done!” My friend did this and was convinced his WRX could tow a jet ski even though the owners manual states not to tow a trailer of any kind with a WRX. It was fun watching that car virtually grenade itself while towing.

Only an absolute moron would open themselves up to this kind of liability. When towing, you don’t mess around like this. I’ve seen people killed trying to bend the rules with their POS overloaded tow vehicles. Play by the book or don’t tow at all.

WOW! That is a staggering number of assumptions about me and my situation given the negligible information you have. I’ve been considering how to respond to the vitriol you decided to post. Not content wise, but tone wise. After all… you’ve purposefully questioned my personal integrity, and maybe less purposefully questioned my professional integrity. Both of these I take very seriously, even though I’m not particularly bothered by someone trying to troll me on the interweb. I take safety exceptionally seriously though, not just because it is the right thing to do but also because I have a professional ethical oath I need to maintain for the public good. AND… if I was ever in an accident and there was an investigation, I would likely be held to a higher standard than Joe Public, because that’s how law works.

You have assumed that I spent 5 minutes looking up European tow ratings, and then just hooked up my haphazardly attached trailer and barreled down the road ignoring my speed completely. Excellent! You of course don’t know me (at all), but that’s your conclusion.

On Tongue Weight

Let’s tear down some of your assertions, starting with before I “pulled out of my driveway”. You are correct that I have an aftermarket receiver on my Alltrack (the one for my Legacys was custom built). I cannot remember whether the one on my Alltrack is an Ecohitch or Curt, but it was supplied/installed at a Volkswagon dealership in late 2017. I think it was class II but with a 2in receiver and is good for 350lb tongue weight. I looked up the current model and it is rated at 300lbs (not sure why they changed). Classification for receivers (I, II, III, IV etc.) is a RANGE and not a specific tongue value. So you’re a little off with the 250lb assumption.

Like North America, Europe also uses a RANGE for tongue weight, rather than the single value you mentioned. The range is 4%-7% as opposed to the 10%-15% in NA. If you take the EU rating for a diesel Alltrack (4409lbs) and take 7% of that, you get… 308.6lbs. WHAT A SURPRISE!


More important to the question of tongue weight though is HOW Europe can get away with as little as 4% when anything less than 10% is considered DANGEROUS in North America. You implied in your post that it is solely due to speed, but that is not true. At least there is a FAR MORE IMPORTANT factor you didn’t mention, or perhaps don’t know. I’ll leave that piece out for now, and see if you can figure out what it is. Don’t rush! I’m happy to wait a week before posting the answer. This is something I figured out in the early 2000s when I was researching the design for the receiver for our 2002 Legacy wagon, and is something which is fairly obvious when you have an understanding of chassis and suspension design.

On Speed

Your post also suggests that European loads are based on lower speeds, and state 50mph in Germany… conveniently leaving out that each EU country has its own speed restrictions. In France it can be up to 81mph (130km/hr) for a car + caravan under 3.5 tonnes (7716lbs), which is higher than the hwy speed limits in most of North America. Which means in France, it would be perfectly legal for me to drive on the highway with maximum trailer load at 81mph (spoiler alert… I wouldn’t).

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/overse...-speed-limits/

I would never pull at capacity load at full highways speed though. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells would reduce their speed to match the condition of their load. On my trip to PA, I was only ever on a major highway for a short period, and I MAY have reached 55mph… maybe. If it had been raining or snowing, it would have been less and/or I would have used alternative roads. The two ton loads I’ve done are local to me, less than a few miles from my house, more or less flat, and below 31mph (50kph).

On Vehicle/Load Ratio

Two of the most important factors which influence the safety of towing are the tongue weight, and Vehicle/Load ratio. Europe has a general recommendation for vehicles which don’t have a tow rating, which is 85% of vehicle weight. For my Alltrack, that would work out to 2848lbs (again, WHAT A SURPRISE!). But let’s take a look at what an F-150 can pull (which I also did in the early 2000s). In the MathCad sheet I’ve shown, I used a 2023 F-150, RWD, with an 8ft bed for reference. I’ve highlighted a few different items, but the takeaway is that at 50mph and maximum load the F-150 would need to manage over 4 times the kinetic energy, but with only 1-1/4 times the vehicle weight. So my Alltrack max load is monstrously safer (in this aspect) than the F-150 bog standard.



But it gets even better… as referenced later, different states/provinces have different trailer brake limits. In Massachusetts you don’t need trailer brakes until you reach 10,000lbs total load (see revised MathCad sheet). I do have trailer brakes (as recommended by VW). Although it is only a rough approximation, the weight of my trailer+load can be used for braking as well. In which case the 10,000lb loaded F-150 needs to dissipate 3 times the kinetic energy, but with only slightly more than ONE HALF the weight. So which one do you think is safer again???



And although these ratios don’t depend on speed, the total kinetic energy is based on the SQUARE of speed which heavily influences braking requirements. My Alltrack can already easily outbrake an F-150 without a load. I have neither the time nor the inclination to start doing brake calculations in this post, but do you honestly believe the F-150 has 3 times the braking capacity required to dissipate kinetic energy as heat??? And I’ll pose that question even before we take into consideration my trailer brakes.

On Regulations

North America is in a way still the wild west of towing. There are lots of “rules of thumb”, but not much in the way of regulation. “Rules” regarding trailers are at the provincial and state levels, rather than national… and they are few and far between. Rules for trailer brakes have improved greatly in the last few decades but vary wildly. To the best of my knowledge there are no “regulations” for tow ratings in NA. There is a STANDARD testing procedure (J2807) provided by the SAE (a non-governmental body of which I was a member for 20 years) which was published in 2015, but there is no requirement for manufacturers to use it in order to put a tow rating in the owners manual. It all depends on whether or not the manufacturer wants to spend the money on testing, and they only seem to do it for vehicles which push the limits of the vehicle/load ratio. On these rare occasions when I’m towing something heavier across state or provincial lines, I always call the DMVs or ministries ahead of time to find out if they have any jurisdiction specific rules. In EVERY SINGLE CASE I’ve called, I’ve never been given any rules, laws, or regulations to follow other than trailer brake requirements. They simply didn’t exist. I actually used a hypothetical example of me using my 76’ Mini to tow a full size car trailer with a 58’ Cadillac on board as an example. All they could say was that it is not technically illegal, but I could be charged with careless or dangerous driving if something were to occur. Perhaps there are states/provinces where there are stricter laws, but I haven’t had to drive across one yet.

In Closing

I encourage constructive criticism, questions, discussions and debate. I am certainly not flawless, and if you’d like to point out an error in my information, and calculations, I have zero issue with that. Laws and rules change all the time, which is why it is prudent to call ahead. Although I may have been more direct in this post, you’ll notice I haven’t engaged in name calling or made any “out of the ether” assertions about you as a person. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a certain amount of decorum, courtesy, and generalized respect for this forum and the members on it. Let’s try to be a little more civil moving forward shall we? Asking questions is a perfectly reasonable way to get someone to think, rather than trying to belittle them. And if you have an issue, be SPECIFIC about why you disagree.

There are a boatload of things I didn’t touch on in this response, so as to not further pollute this thread. Brakes, weight distribution, drive wheels, tongue height, tongue length, distance from rear axle to ball, trailer tongue length, center of gravity, levelness of trailer, aerodynamics of load, stability of load, tie downs, anchor points, sprung vs. unsprung loads, tire pressures etc., etc., etc., all play a roll in how the load will behave and the tow vehicle’s ability to control it. I also haven’t commented on your “friend’s” WRX/Jetski situation, as I’m unwilling to ASSUME what you are referring to. If you are referring to a traditional (original) jet ski that weighs under 400lbs, 700lbs at most with the little trailer… then I seriously question your story (unless there’s a CVT involved). I had 1500lbs behind my 2000 Impreza Outback Sport multiple times per year and kept that car for over 340,000kms before selling it. No squeaks, rattles or damage of any kind. It did take two sets of rear wheel bearings (one under warranty at 40,000kms), but those cars were notorious for that without the trailering.

One last thing… I am no stranger to the “seeing of accidents”, or knowing people who have had trailer accidents. My late Uncle and Aunt had an accident with their Suburban and Airstream in the early eighties. A crosswind caught the trailer on the highway, it started to sway, and over the whole kit and kaboodle went. They had some small injuries, but were ok. Truck and trailer were a write off though. My uncle went on to design one of the earlier trailer brake controllers on the market (mid eighties) and I believe had a patent or two, or at least pending. Little black box which had 4 square buttons (yellow, blue, green, red) to control the level of trailer braking.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

All fair points. I did not grow up towing anything. I am still a relative newb to towing, but I no longer white knuckle it. My longest two was pulling my Z 5 hours to a show. It was in an older Tundra.

I Once thought how you thought about the tow rating. It started in much the same way as you questioning the widely differing ranges of tow ratings. It all seemed like an overly complex mix of many variables that have different weights on the results.

Input that into some standardized government mandated algorithm and a number is made.

I have a few guys here at JSC that have some family members in the car biz at the big three. When asked at how much margin on that tow rating these vehicle have they said ZERO. Not sure if that was due to the letigious nature as you mentioned, or just some CYA working on multiple levels.

Nice Elan by the way.

Probably one of the few cars that weighs less than my Datsun roadster. I am sure I am overly cautious. On that point I MUST concede.

Thanks Scrappy,

I sold the +2 around 4 years ago, I miss it though. It weighed around 1900lbs. The S1 Elan (you can see the body hanging from my rafters in the one picture is MUCH lighter at under 1300lbs. It is still under restoration.

I have a facination with lightweight cars, hence the Mini also in my collection. Love your 240Z though, and have always wanted one. Prices have skyrocketed though, so I don't think it will come to be. The twink in my Elan is a sweet sounding 4-banger, but the straight 6 in your Z (with 50% more side draft Weber) is super sweet.

I'm surprized at your collegues "zero" comment for factor of safety. Doesn't make any sense on multiple levels... such as what the "zero" applies to. Which component(s), yield strength, UTS or some other baseline? What impact factors are they using etc.? Anyway... lots to consider. Stay safe!

[SCRAPPYDO]

You as well. I will keep my margins where they are. I enjoy being overly cautious when towing. It helps make up for my lack of towing talent

[brandon]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

You as well. I will keep my margins where they are. I enjoy being overly cautious when towing. It helps make up for my lack of towing talent

Certainly a reasonable thing to do. Love the look of the 2000 also BTW. I don't believe I've ever seen one in person. Went to look at your website to see if there were pictures, but it seems to be down. Hmm... perhaps the wayback machine!!!!

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I have a few guys here at JSC that have some family members in the car biz at the big three. When asked at how much margin on that tow rating these vehicle have they said ZERO. Not sure if that was due to the letigious nature as you mentioned, or just some CYA working on multiple levels.

There are always factors of safety built in to everything that's made. Always. But no manufacturer will go on record telling you that you can use up that factor of safety because it's there to account for manufacturing and material tolerances...

[SCRAPPYDO]

never miss a chance to post pics of my babies