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Old 10-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #26
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know how i know you didn't read the article or even posts in thread?
know how I know your sarcasm meter is broken ?
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #27
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know how i know you didn't read the article or even posts in thread?
i was making a joke how vaccination and vacation were similar spelled words
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:58 AM   #28
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A guy I work with is very bright, creative, prudent, and as far as I can see, very well rounded. He and his wife, a doctor herself, have decided not to get their child vaccinations on the normal schedule, instead choosing to wait several years before getting them. *shrug*
Selfish people....they rely on others to get vaccinated so they don't have to worry about their kids getting Hib.
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:59 AM   #29
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One case reported[2] involves a woman, Desiree Jennings, who apparently developed dystonia 10 days after a regular flu shot, although there has been no demonstrated causal link between the vaccine and the diagnosis of dystonia. Dr. Leigh Vinocur from the University of Maryland Medical System stated on the October 16, 2009, airing of "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox News that this case was psychogenic and neurologists were using it as an example of psychogenic dystonia.[3]

This diagnosis does not exclude thiomersal (sometimes spelled "thimerosal") induced neurological damage as a possible causative agent in the young woman's disorder. However, there is no empirical support for a position that such theoretical damage could have resulted from the vaccine in the flu-shot case; it would be the first reported such case. Nevertheless, a hypothetical link between flu vaccines and dystonia is championed by the activist group Generation Rescue, which in the past has been known for making similar medical claims regarding effects of thiomersal (see thiomersal controversy)-- claims which have been found by at least one court to be implausible and to lack convincing scientific evidence.
From Wikipedia, so you know it's true.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:01 AM   #30
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I'm pretty sure that cheerleader's story has nothing to do with the flu vaccine. That story makes me angry. I feel horrible for her, but she has a genetic disease that just happened to manifest weeks after the vaccine. I really believe it was a coincidence, and not a result of the flu vaccine.
This.


Somewhat crappy analogy: I've had customer's bitch to me because their motherboard or power supply or some other random component failed a week after I removed a virus from their computer, implying that it was somehow my fault
No, just NO.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:01 AM   #31
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This.


Somewhat crappy analogy: I've had customer's bitch to me because their motherboard or power supply or some other random component failed a week after I removed a virus from their computer, implying that it was somehow my fault
You let the magic smoke out!
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:01 AM   #32
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Q: noone is claiming that vaccines do not have side-effects. They do, and in rare cases like the one you've pointed out, they can be very serious.

But when you have an activist claim that vaccinating against a virus that kills 500,000 children worldwide every year is pointless and only serves greed, you'd better expect people who work in the healthcare industry to call him out, deservedly so.
500,000 child? I think the regular flu, dare I say, only kills about 100 kids a year here in the U.S.. I think there has been nearly that already with the swine flu. Granted that's a lot already well above the average I'm sure, but 500,000 is a misrepresentation of what goes on here in the U.S..
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:02 AM   #33
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Probably the most important paragraph of the article:


Quote:
To be clear, there is no credible evidence to indicate that any of this is true. None. Twelve epidemiological studies have found no data that links the MMR (measles/mumps/rubella) vaccine to autism; six studies have found no trace of an association between thimerosal (a preservative containing ethylmercury that has largely been removed from vaccines since 2001) and autism, and three other studies have found no indication that thimerosal causes even subtle neurological problems. The so-called epidemic, researchers assert, is the result of improved diagnosis, which has identified as autistic many kids who once might have been labeled mentally retarded or just plain slow. In fact, the growing body of science indicates that the autistic spectrum — which may well turn out to encompass several discrete conditions — may largely be genetic in origin. In April, the journal Nature published two studies that analyzed the genes of almost 10,000 people and identified a common genetic variant present in approximately 65 percent of autistic children.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #34
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Math. You're doing it wrong.
Listening comprehension. You're doing it wrong.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by nepawrx View Post
I'm pretty sure that cheerleader's story has nothing to do with the flu vaccine. That story makes me angry. I feel horrible for her, but she has a genetic disease that just happened to manifest weeks after the vaccine. I really believe it was a coincidence, and not a result of the flu vaccine.

a genetic disease believed to be triggered by the vaccine.

perhaps it should be policy to screen people for these sort of things before they get vaccinations

I am not against vaccines, but the possibility of it doing that, even being so rare, warrants that extra precautions be taken to prevent it from happening ever again.



also, they make no mention of her parents having a similar condition.


and Thug, it's still 1 in 1,000,000

Last edited by Qcanfixit; 10-22-2009 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:06 AM   #36
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True. But one of the interesting points in the article is that vaccination opt-out rates increase in proportion to income. Meaning the kids of the more affluent families are the ones that aren't getting these important shots.
Strange they didn't mention this as one of the issues in idiocracy.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:08 AM   #37
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We talked about this last night. Kids have to get their 5 & 3 yr booster shots next week. Wife wanted to hit them up with both flu vaccines at the same time.

I said no. I've only been vaccinated at whatever the state-mandated level is, as was my sister. Never had a flu shot, nor will I. Arguably, until I hit ~30 (or had kids), I could count the number of times I got truly ill on one hand.

If there is a 1 in 1,000,000 shot that an optional vaccine is the root of permanent physiological or mental disabilities and there is a 1 in 5 shot they will catch the a flu for a week...I'll take the week.

Your odds of winning the lottery are 1 in 178,000,000. Somebody still wins every week or two. Might not be you, but someone does.

ibthehate&flamesflowfree.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Qcanfixit View Post
a genetic disease believed to be triggered by the vaccine.



also, they make no mention of her parents having a similar condition.


and Thug, it's still 1 in 1,000,000
I, personally, have 2 genetic diseases that neither my parents nor my grandparents have. That story is spreading fear with absolutely no scientific or medical backing. It's media sensationalism.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:10 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
500,000 child? I think the regular flu, dare I say, only kills about 100 kids a year here in the U.S.. I think there has been nearly that already with the swine flu. Granted that's a lot already well above the average I'm sure, but 500,000 is a misrepresentation of what goes on here in the U.S..
I think the true number is somewhere in the middle.

Quote:
CDC estimated that about 36,000 people died of seasonal flu-related causes each year, on average, during the 1990s in the United States.
That's for all ages. So some children, more old people, I think. But that's just the US, which is like 5% of the population of the world, so multiply that number by 20 to get a guess at worldwide flu deaths per year at around 600,000, all ages.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:10 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Qcanfixit View Post
a genetic disease believed to be triggered by the vaccine.

also, they make no mention of her parents having a similar condition.

and Thug, it's still 1 in 1,000,000
Genetic, meaning it was there already and could've been triggered by who-knows-what at any given point in her life.

If my clothes are drenched in gasoline and I accidentally lit myself up while cooking, I can't blame the stove. Even if I didn't realize I was drenched in gasoline. Isht happens.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:10 AM   #41
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Strange they didn't mention this as one of the issues in idiocracy.
We don't you lower class morons catching on.


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Old 10-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #42
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We don't you lower class morons catching on.


Accidentally the whole class.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by nepawrx View Post
I, personally, have 2 genetic diseases that neither my parents nor my grandparents have. That story is spreading fear with absolutely no scientific or medical backing. It's media sensationalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markman View Post
Genetic, meaning it was there already and could've been triggered by who-knows-what at any given point in her life.

If my clothes are drenched in gasoline and I accidentally lit myself up while cooking, I can't blame the stove. Even if I didn't realize I was drenched in gasoline. Isht happens.


both of you re read my post

I just edited it to clarify my position.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:12 AM   #44
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We don't you lower class morons catching on.


We don't you catching on either.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:13 AM   #45
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i cannot hear you. can you talk louder?

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Old 10-22-2009, 11:13 AM   #46
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I think the true number is somewhere in the middle.


That's for all ages. So some children, more old people, I think. But that's just the US, which is like 5% of the population of the world, so multiply that number by 20 to get a guess at worldwide flu deaths per year at around 600,000, all ages.
Wiki wiki woo!

Quote:
As influenza is caused by a variety of species and strains of viruses, in any given year some strains can die out while others create epidemics, while yet another strain can cause a pandemic. Typically, in a year's normal two flu seasons (one per hemisphere), there are between three and five million cases of severe illness and up to 500,000 deaths worldwide, which by some definitions is a yearly influenza epidemic.[127] Although the incidence of influenza can vary widely between years, approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations are directly associated with influenza every year in the United States.[128][129] Roughly three times per century, a pandemic occurs, which infects a large proportion of the world's population and can kill tens of millions of people (see history section). Indeed, one study estimated that if a strain with similar virulence to the 1918 influenza emerged today, it could kill between 50 and 80 million people.[130]
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:16 AM   #47
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It's funny how Jenny McCarthy still rallies against vaccines when the thing that supposedly "fixed" her son's autism was a change in diet.


It certainly sounds like one though.
She got naked for a living, and you expect her to be smart?
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:16 AM   #48
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She got naked for a living, and you expect her to be smart?
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:18 AM   #49
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She got naked for a living, and you expect her to be smart?

funny.. but it is smart...


what could be smarter than charging people money to see your body?
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:19 AM   #50
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both of you re read my post

I just edited it to clarify my position.
Okay, yeah- I agree that screening for 'incompatibilities' before issuing vaccines would be a good idea, assuming the technology is there to do so. But I doubt doctors would know about an incompatibility until someone gets affected by it, and it's hard to pinpoint something like that when it happens only once every few million times. It would be almost impossible for them to definitively say: "this ingredient in this shot causes this affect in people with this certain attribute in their DNA". There's too many variables. Isht is gonna happen... it's sad but it happens. You gotta pick the lesser of evils, which is usually taking the vaccine so you don't die of some weird ass obsolete disease or something.
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