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Old 10-22-2009, 11:19 AM   #51
doubledribble
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not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.

we have our kids on an alternative vaccination schedule.

polio? come on. not necessary.

I don't get flu vaccinations and have yet to have the flu in my adult life.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #52
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This problem only compounds itself as more illegals come here and are allowed to send their kids to public schools w/o the vaccinations as well.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bungle View Post
Listening comprehension. You're doing it wrong.
Not rry.

Clarity: it was 1 in 1,000,000,000 that a shot would cause that condition.

Last edited by Thug; 10-22-2009 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.

we have our kids on an alternative vaccination schedule.

polio? come on. not necessary.

I don't get flu vaccinations and have yet to have the flu in my adult life.
Fascinating.

Your unassailable logic is "it can't be that important, I didn't get it!"
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:26 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.

we have our kids on an alternative vaccination schedule.

polio? come on. not necessary.

I don't get flu vaccinations and have yet to have the flu in my adult life.
If enough people decline the polio vaccination, polio could potentially become a problem again. Same with any other vaccinated disease. That's kind of the point of encouraging everyone to get vaccinated, to make sure this doesn't happen.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:29 AM   #56
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Fascinating.

Your unassailable logic is "it can't be that important, I didn't get it!"

Just rub some dirt on it. It worked for his great great grandparents.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:32 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.

we have our kids on an alternative vaccination schedule.

polio? come on. not necessary.

I don't get flu vaccinations and have yet to have the flu in my adult life.
As of right now the last case of polio in this country was in 1979. But that is the point, without the polio vaccine and without everyone being required to take it this would not be the case. The goal of most of these vaccines is to help eradicate the diseases they protect you against from the planet. Polio is virtually non-existent because of the polio vaccine.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:37 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qcanfixit View Post
a genetic disease believed to be triggered by the vaccine.

perhaps it should be policy to screen people for these sort of things before they get vaccinations.
The trick is knowing what the triggers are. There are not computer models or magic tests that tell you vaccine X will cause a bad reaction in person Y.

That's why the FDA mandates, and pharma companies conduct, multi-billion $$ clinical trials. But clinical trials are designed to predict broad-spectrum safety and efficacy in the general population. They do not, and cannot reasonably be expected to account for the thousands of rare disorders and/or virtually unique conditions that each particular individual may have.

Biological systems are not predictable in the same way that mechanical or digital systems are; the level of complexity is orders of magnitude higher.

So, our society decides on acceptable standards of safety for drugs, food, chemicals products, etc. Nothing you touch, breathe, eat, ingest, inject, adsorb, or otherwise interact with is universally "harmless".
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:40 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
The trick is knowing what the triggers are. There are not computer models or magic tests that tell you vaccine X will cause a bad reaction in person Y.

That's why the FDA mandates, and pharma companies conduct, multi-billion $$ clinical trials. But clinical trials are designed to predict broad-spectrum safety and efficacy in the general population. They do not, and cannot reasonably be expected to account for the thousands of rare disorders and/or virtually unique conditions that each particular individual may have.

Biological systems are not predictable in the same way that mechanical or digital systems are; the level of complexity is orders of magnitude higher.

So, our society decides on acceptable standards of safety for drugs, food, chemicals products, etc. Nothing you touch, breathe, eat, ingest, inject, adsorb, or otherwise interact with is universally "harmless".

You can not get sick from the vaccine!! The OT experts have spoken.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:46 AM   #60
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From the cheerleader thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheasant Plucker View Post

Quote:
What about the vaccines? People's nervousness about swine flu vaccines is understandable. In 1976, after the death of a US army recruit triggered fears of a repeat of the deadly 1918 pandemic, around 48 million Americans were given a swine flu vaccine. Of these, 532 developed Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralytic condition caused by rogue antibodies attacking nerve cells. Most people recover from Guillain-Barré, but not all; 25 died after 1976 and others suffered lasting damage.

Fears from the 1970s

The 1976 vaccine caused around 10 cases per million vaccinated. Even ordinary flu vaccines, however, are thought to cause one extra case of Guillain-Barré per million, in addition to the 10 to 20 per million who get Guillain-Barré some other way every year.

Does this mean it is safer not getting vaccinated? Absolutely not. First, there is the risk of swine flu killing you. Second, what few people know is that flu itself is far more likely to cause Guillain-Barré than any flu vaccine.

A 2009 study found that out of every million people who get flu, between 40 and 70 develop Guillain-Barré. So your best chance of avoiding Guillain-Barré is to get vaccinated, a conclusion backed by a 2007 study.

The vaccine risk is also diminishing. Cases of Guillain-Barré in the US have fallen 20 per cent since 1996, and cases reported after flu vaccination have fallen by 60 per cent. Intriguingly, this coincides with a fall in infections by the food poisoning bacterium Campylobacter, thanks to improved meat hygiene. Guillain-Barré usually follows infections, and Campylobacter is the main cause. It is also endemic among chickens, and flu vaccines are grown in chicken eggs. So the occasional contamination of flu vaccines with Campylobacter proteins might explain the link with Guillain-Barré, according to a 2004 study.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:46 AM   #61
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**commerical

only thing i got from the article is that carl sagan is god

i still enjoy watching his old shows

**back to your regularly schedule program
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:52 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.
reminds me of the movie Pail Rider.
I loved that movie . . .
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:53 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by beethoven View Post
Selfish people....they rely on others to get vaccinated so they don't have to worry about their kids getting Hib.
This is EXACTLY what I was going to post. F-ers are assuming that all the responsible parents are going to cover them because the majority of the "herd" will be vaccinated.

Edit: regarding polio, My aunt had it as a child. Not only does she have one limb that basically stopped growing at a certain age, but she has many bizzarro long-term complications.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:54 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thug View Post
From the cheerleader thread:
Thanks Thug. I posted the link in the wrong place.

("Thanks Thug" has a funny ring to it!)
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:02 PM   #65
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my $.02 as a newer dad... We saw something on TV (IBTViscrap) that said the dude who started this whole MMR craze back in the UK a while back ALSO said it was ONLY for the shot where it's all in one. He basically suggested the shots should go back to the normal 3 shot schedule, or even 2 here the 1 mixed in with something else. He never intended kids to stop getting shots, that's just how the media spun it and how we got to where were are now.

Do I think MMR causes autism? Nope.
Do I wish my Kid could get them as 3 separate shots just in case? You bet.
Did I fight it out with my wife and MIL (pediatric nurse)? Not a chance.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:03 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
not all vaccinations are necessary...remember when you were a kid? i think the number of vaccinations we received pail in comparison to what is scheduled now.

we have our kids on an alternative vaccination schedule.

polio? come on. not necessary.

I don't get flu vaccinations and have yet to have the flu in my adult life.
You realize that polio is not eradicated right? It's not like smallpox where we know of no cases out there in the world.

Granted it is considered eliminated in the USA, but if enough people opt out of the vaccine then it becomes a possibility that it returns. The only way to eradicate a virus is for everyone to vaccinate and remain vaccinated until there are no more reported cases.

The whole point of this article and others is that people like you who on your own decide that vaccination is not necessary are the ones who end up causing a resurgence of various viral infections. Enough people get this idea in their head that a vaccine is not necessary, when in reality the virus is still out there, and suddenly we have a huge problem.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:04 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
Q: noone is claiming that vaccines do not have side-effects. They do, and in rare cases like the one you've pointed out, they can be very serious.

But when you have an activist claim that vaccinating against a virus that kills 500,000 children worldwide every year is pointless and only serves greed, you'd better expect people who work in the healthcare industry to call him out, deservedly so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
500,000 child? I think the regular flu, dare I say, only kills about 100 kids a year here in the U.S.. I think there has been nearly that already with the swine flu. Granted that's a lot already well above the average I'm sure, but 500,000 is a misrepresentation of what goes on here in the U.S..
Um, who said anything about the flu? Read the article. Paul Offit invented the rotavirus vaccine. Rotavirus kills 500,000 children annually worldwide.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:07 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by beethoven View Post
It's funny how Jenny McCarthy still rallies against vaccines when the thing that supposedly "fixed" her son's autism was a change in diet.

But but but, she's famous and has a son with autism, therefore she's an expert in immunology, microbiology AND autism!

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:08 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
my $.02 as a newer dad... We saw something on TV (IBTViscrap) that said the dude who started this whole MMR craze back in the UK a while back ALSO said it was ONLY for the shot where it's all in one. He basically suggested the shots should go back to the normal 3 shot schedule, or even 2 here the 1 mixed in with something else. He never intended kids to stop getting shots, that's just how the media spun it and how we got to where were are now.

Do I think MMR causes autism? Nope.
Do I wish my Kid could get them as 3 separate shots just in case? You bet.
Did I fight it out with my wife and MIL (pediatric nurse)? Not a chance.
The guy who started the MMR autism hysteria also was found to have manipulated the data in his study and has admitted to having no proof of causation between vaccination and autism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683671.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5728998.ece

Don't let unreasoning fear manipulate you. The all in one shot is safe.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:11 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harv View Post
The guy who started the MMR autism hysteria also was found to have manipulated the data in his study and has admitted to having no proof of causation between vaccination and autism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683671.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5728998.ece

Don't let unreasoning fear manipulate you. The all in one shot is safe.
just because he made it up doesn't mean it couldn't be true . . . .
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekw View Post
reminds me of the movie Pail Rider.
I loved that movie . . .
whoa a movie you have seen.
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:15 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by ekw View Post
just because he made it up doesn't mean it couldn't be true . . . .
But the rate of Autism is rising so it must be vaccines
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:17 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledribble View Post
whoa a movie you have seen.
sure, 24 years ago, I went to the movies . . . .
to see Clint in a Western.
not the damn Goonies!!

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:18 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Thug View Post
Just rub some dirt on it. It worked for his great great grandparents.
Then you'd die of Lockjaw instead. However, you wouldn't have polio!
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Old 10-22-2009, 12:22 PM   #75
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A common theme in public discourse about science is to claim that "the debate is still open"(creationism vs evolution, vaccine safety) when the debate has in fact long been closed. The anti-vaccine types will spew their bull**** for years to come just like the geocentrists and the flat earthers.
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