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Old 02-13-2019, 02:23 PM   #326
Delphi
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:32 PM   #327
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They're literally everywhere.... in multiple shapes, configurations, etc, etc...

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Old 02-13-2019, 02:35 PM   #328
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They're literally everywhere.... in multiple shapes, configurations, etc, etc...

I literally bought my machinist buddy at work a coffee and he made the sleeve OEM+ Fellas
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:04 PM   #329
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I literally bought my machinist buddy at work a coffee and he made the sleeve OEM+ Fellas
That was awesome of him!

Last edited by Foo_Blyat; 02-20-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:13 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
If someone can get temperature readings of their heads before and after this kit, it would be nice to get real world numbers from real world users.
Well, if you sent the kit I requested over a month ago....





Forget temp probes and EGT's.

Whomever is taking the time to conduct the testing is going to want to use thermal imaging. This is what will tell you what's really going on with the heads, for example. If there's a hotspot, where exactly is it? After the kit is installed, is there a new hotspot in a different location? Or do the head temps balance out? Thermal imaging will answer those questions.

I understand what Dom was going for during his testing but EGT's aren't the answer to what this kit might (or will) do.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #331
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Perfect timing. I was getting hungry
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:49 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by bergs View Post
Forget temp probes and EGT's.



Whomever is taking the time to conduct the testing is going to want to use thermal imaging. This is what will tell you what's really going on with the heads, for example. If there's a hotspot, where exactly is it? After the kit is installed, is there a new hotspot in a different location? Or do the head temps balance out? Thermal imaging will answer those questions.



I understand what Dom was going for during his testing but EGT's aren't the answer to what this kit might (or will) do.
I can definitely see how this will help with acquiring accurate data via a different method.

I'm curious to know why you feel EGT data isn't the way?
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #333
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Only a coffee? That’s crazy. He should have charged you $80 for his time
In Canada, we have two currency's: officially minted Monopoly money and double-doubles. At times, one is less desirable to have than the other, considering how cold it can get here at times. I'll let you decide which one that is. I prefer McDonald's variety myself but that discussion is for another subforum....

On a serious note, did you get my PM?
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:53 PM   #334
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EGT is a composite measurement of the combustion efficiency of the entire engine system (both heads combined). A FLIR camera will show real-time temperature changes across the entire engine. If the cooling mod helps, a cooler spot should appear somewhere on that head. However, if the temperature changes, the FLIR image will show if a new hot spot develops somewhere else or if the engine temperatures equalize. If the hot spot moves to a less desirable location the mod doesn't help. If the engine temps stabilize, in theory, the mod helps. The EGT will only show a small changes as a result of this mod and could be a result of too many other variables. A real-time IR image clearly wins against any other measurement.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:07 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
In Canada, we have two currency's: officially minted Monopoly money and double-doubles. At times, one is less desirable to have than the other, considering how cold it can get here at times. I'll let you decide which one that is. I prefer McDonald's variety myself but that discussion is for another subforum....

On a serious note, did you get my PM?
I thought Tim Hortons was the crime de la creme over the border? What’s the current exchange rate of one Canadian coffee to a ‘murican freedom note >insert bald eagle screeching wings spread with rifles crossed behind it and a huge explosion going off while the USA flag waves gallantly in the wind< ?

I may have scanned across your pm but have to clear my inbox frequently when I have a lot of items in the classifieds. Shoot me another one if I never responded
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:17 PM   #336
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The way I see it is the turbo takes coolant from the right head and you take coolant from the left head via coolant mod that the cooling would be more evened out. It only makes sense.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:25 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
Most people are making a very simple cooling system way too complicated and using youtube comment section as their sources.



These are accessory ports. Like a usb charger in a car. When Subaru wanted to cool a second turbo, they plugged it into the cooling system using a banjo in the LH port. When they wanted a transmission cooler, they plugged it into the cooling system with the bypass fitting. when they were done with LH accessories, they plugged it.



Same goes for the RH side. on some models they want an oil cooler, on others they dont. but all have the accessory port for them. Some RH heads are NA and have a plug, others are FI and have a coolant banjo. Yet the cooling system on each make and model still functions while generally having the same radiators, same water pumps, and same engines.



The cooling system is completely NOT dependent on those plugs to operate properly. When they dont need to be used to cool something, just plug them up.



It is our choice to do this mod, it is most def not a requirement by any means.


I agree with this.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:25 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospoolforyou View Post
EGT is a composite measurement of the combustion efficiency of the entire engine system (both heads combined). A FLIR camera will show real-time temperature changes across the entire engine. If the cooling mod helps, a cooler spot should appear somewhere on that head. However, if the temperature changes, the FLIR image will show if a new hot spot develops somewhere else or if the engine temperatures equalize. If the hot spot moves to a less desirable location the mod doesn't help. If the engine temps stabilize, in theory, the mod helps. The EGT will only show a small changes as a result of this mod and could be a result of too many other variables. A real-time IR image clearly wins against any other measurement.
Makes absolute sense, actually. Does it make a difference/more accurate if the EGT data is per cylinder?

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I thought Tim Hortons was the crime de la creme over the border? What’s the current exchange rate of one Canadian coffee to a ‘murican freedom note >insert bald eagle screeching wings spread with rifles crossed behind it and a huge explosion going off while the USA flag waves gallantly in the wind< ?

I may have scanned across your pm but have to clear my inbox frequently when I have a lot of items in the classifieds. Shoot me another one if I never responded
Yeah, Tim's is kinda like Mastercard. Accepted everywhere. I'll put my order in if work is making a Tim's run, for example, but creme de la creme? Well, my personal preference is McDonald's coffee.

Amd it wasn't anything too pressing, just questions about your kit is all.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:05 PM   #339
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EGT per cylinder would be a much better measurement for comparison. If you could mount the FLIR camera safely, I'm not even sure how to get the measurements or if you would see the temperature change accurately enough. Like all technologies, FLIR cameras vary in quality, resolution, and capabilities...you get what you pay for.

If EGT per cylinder is easier to measure or can be done by an engine management system, it would be the best place to start.
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:17 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
I can definitely see how this will help with acquiring accurate data via a different method.

I'm curious to know why you feel EGT data isn't the way?
nospoolforyou pretty much covered it.

The idea of using thermal imaging is to see the temp of head(s) in total rather than using the combustion cycle as a singular point of reference.

During testing, I would be less interested in the temperature value itself (since the thermostat is controlling that) and more interested in what the entire head does before and after kit install.

To me, this is less about numbers and more about seeing an effect.
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:44 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
It appears he used per cyl temps, so at least it's a bit more accurate.

But now that you mention the IR temps, I'm very curious to see the results, as well.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:02 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospoolforyou View Post
EGT per cylinder would be a much better measurement for comparison. If you could mount the FLIR camera safely, I'm not even sure how to get the measurements or if you would see the temperature change accurately enough. Like all technologies, FLIR cameras vary in quality, resolution, and capabilities...you get what you pay for.

If EGT per cylinder is easier to measure or can be done by an engine management system, it would be the best place to start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
It appears he used per cyl temps, so at least it's a bit more accurate.

But now that you mention the IR temps, I'm very curious to see the results, as well.
Man if only someone would have spent the time recording individual egt, you know...to interpret effectiveness of this modification. Hey, wait a second!

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Originally Posted by PDXREALTOR View Post
Perfect timing. I was getting hungry
Hey, stop being greedy and give me one of those!
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:14 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Man if only someone would have spent the time recording individual egt, you know...to interpret effectiveness of this modification. Hey, wait a second!



Hey, stop being greedy and give me one of those!
LOL. I mean,.... It's really so absurd all I can do is
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:21 PM   #344
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Is that how scientific testing works? someone with something to gain whos selling a product does one test, posts some out of focus pictures, provides no further data, and then everyone is supposed to accept this as fact and never confirm it on their own with further unbiased individual testing?
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:04 AM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
It appears he used per cyl temps, so at least it's a bit more accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Man if only someone would have spent the time recording individual egt
I'm failing to see the difference between what I said and you said....so, you either lack an incredible amount of comprehension skills or are fairly drunk to not understand your own thoughts.

opc orn:

It's ok, Foo. I read about a study once that analyzed people in a wide variety of professions that both required an education or degree of some kind and others did not. The findings were quite interesting, I thought. According to the study, only 30% of people actually possess the knowledge, comprehension, and wherewithal (basically the brain power to actually be smart) to actually qualify for their respective position, and this was regardless of experience or tenure. The 30% analyzed the results and sought more information....kinda like what most of us are trying to do here. Of course, it would stand to reason the 30% would only become better with time.

The other 70% were obviously smart but only smart enough to pick up on the fact they were being called idiots.

Yup, and they're every day people....

Last edited by viper_crazy; 02-17-2019 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:25 AM   #346
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I will preface everything I'm about to say with: I am not knocking Dom's work. I merely hold an unfavorable opinion regarding certain pricing of a product.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Man if only someone would have spent the time recording individual egt, you know...to interpret effectiveness of this modification. Hey, wait a second!

The fact of the matter with EGT's is there are a lot of unanswered questions with that single data point. As stated in nospoolforyou's post, it's a starting point.

Combustion temps are not consistent and so an average of those values can be only assumed however, no matter how many times EGT's are measured, it still does not tell the story about what's going on with the heads.

With the EGT data that was posted, what's my confidence the test points were taken in each of the same locations? Did the testing of EGT's before and after install take place in the same conditions? (It does not matter if it were on the same day, there can still be a 20 degree swing over the course of a day and that will affect the EGT data, especially if the test point is not consistent.)

EGT's are ok to use as a reference but they certainly are not the tell-all of what this type of mod does, benefits or otherwise, DIY or Dom's kit. EGT's are only a small part of the entire picture since none of what the EGT data suggests tells us anything about the head.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:33 PM   #347
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The people criticizing my observation aren't getting the point. You are blathering on about wanting more information than what Dom already provided, yet aren't going to pay for it. You are piecing together a part to avoid paying the guy who went through way more hassle than any of you are willing to attempt.

How about all of the people wanting more detailed information get together and pay someone to get it for you, oh wait...

I'm laughing over here at how this thread has progressed and you're the one acting as if I don't understand the entire situation. Sorry if the constant consumption of popcorn is making some people insecure, but there is still plenty to laugh at here.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:35 PM   #348
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You forgot the popcorn. I can't take you seriously if you don't include popcorn.

And you've made your point, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Your bumbling on and insecurities come from not having someone pat you on the head and assure your voice is heard. It's being heard, champ. We just don't care!

Last edited by viper_crazy; 02-17-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:22 PM   #349
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You forgot the popcorn. I can't take you seriously if you don't include popcorn.

And you've made your point, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Your bumbling on and insecurities come from not having someone pat you on the head and assure your voice is heard. It's being heard, champ. We just don't care!
You're an idiot.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:25 PM   #350
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I guess you were smart enough to read between that line too...

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