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Old 03-24-2021, 08:16 PM   #351
PTomBomb
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Default 18x9.5 40mm or 30mm offset?

2019 base STI...looking at Fast Wheels Aristo 18x9.5" wheels with either 30mm or 40mm offset...which would be a safer bet?

Tires will be a set of 255/40/18s.

I have scoured the internet all day trying to figure this out...TIA!
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Old 03-25-2021, 08:50 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by PTomBomb View Post
2019 base STI...looking at Fast Wheels Aristo 18x9.5" wheels with either 30mm or 40mm offset...which would be a safer bet?

Tires will be a set of 255/40/18s.

I have scoured the internet all day trying to figure this out...TIA!
I'm thinking 40.

9.5" is 25mm wider than your OE 8.5" wheels. Half of that would be just under 13 mm, so in order to keep wheel and tire to strut clearances the same you'd want 55 mm (OE) minus 13 mm, or +42. The outer face of the wheel would move outward by about 28 mm. But the tire sidewall only moves about 23 mm further out.




A +30 offset wheel would move the outer face of the wheel 10 mm further out (read, more likely to require fender mods).





Norm
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Old 03-25-2021, 11:53 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by PTomBomb View Post
2019 base STI...looking at Fast Wheels Aristo 18x9.5" wheels...
Looking at the specs on those wheels, you can do a lot better in terms of weight/strength in that fitment and price point. That wheel weighs almost 25 pounds, and it's not that cheap. Almost any Rota wheel we offer weighs less, and our Mach V Crucial (19.5 lbs) and Mach V Wicked Awesome (19.0 lbs) are much lighter and stronger, and not much more expensive.

Plus, we specialize in Subarus, so we can tell you for sure which wheels fit over your brakes.

Dan
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Old 03-26-2021, 01:23 AM   #354
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I'm thinking 40.

9.5" is 25mm wider than your OE 8.5" wheels. Half of that would be just under 13 mm, so in order to keep wheel and tire to strut clearances the same you'd want 55 mm (OE) minus 13 mm, or +42. The outer face of the wheel would move outward by about 28 mm. But the tire sidewall only moves about 23 mm further out.




A +30 offset wheel would move the outer face of the wheel 10 mm further out (read, more likely to require fender mods).





Norm
Thnx, Norm, that was incredibly helpful. I'll go with the 40mm offset, give my suspension the more normal geometry, and lower the risk of any rubbing.

I think the same wheel in 8.5" wide fits the brembos, so I assume the 9.5" wide must be just as able to fit as well. Spoke design doesnt appear to flare inward at all.
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Old 03-26-2021, 09:02 AM   #355
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Thnx, Norm, that was incredibly helpful. I'll go with the 40mm offset, give my suspension the more normal geometry, and lower the risk of any rubbing.

I think the same wheel in 8.5" wide fits the brembos, so I assume the 9.5" wide must be just as able to fit as well. Spoke design doesnt appear to flare inward at all.
Since backspacing is essentially the same as OE, there shouldn't be any interference at the barrel - provided that any taper/conical shape to the barrel isn't much different from OE.


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Old 04-09-2021, 08:36 PM   #356
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Since backspacing is essentially the same as OE, there shouldn't be any interference at the barrel - provided that any taper/conical shape to the barrel isn't much different from OE.
Norm

Welp, test fitted a front wheel today, and they just graze the calipers...can turn the wheel, but it definitely grazes.

I suppose the next move is to get 5mm spacers all round. Just to confirm...brakes are the same thickness front and back, and it's best to space all 4 wheels equally (as opposed to just the fronts) anyways right?

Does anyone have some thoughts on how safe this is for the suspension geometry, and/or diffs on the car? Or is it impossible to say due to it varying from one case to another?

TIA!
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:47 PM   #357
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Welp, test fitted a front wheel today, and they just graze the calipers...can turn the wheel, but it definitely grazes.

I suppose the next move is to get 5mm spacers all round. Just to confirm...brakes are the same thickness front and back, and it's best to space all 4 wheels equally (as opposed to just the fronts) anyways right?

Does anyone have some thoughts on how safe this is for the suspension geometry, and/or diffs on the car? Or is it impossible to say due to it varying from one case to another?

TIA!
Also, I have never used wheel spacers before...do I really need to get the type that require removing brakes to take out old studs to be replaced...or with 5mm, is it okay to just get the spacers that slide over existing studs, and just put my wheels right over top and snug up? Sorry for the super newb questions!
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Old 04-10-2021, 08:39 AM   #358
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Also, I have never used wheel spacers before...do I really need to get the type that require removing brakes to take out old studs to be replaced...or with 5mm, is it okay to just get the spacers that slide over existing studs, and just put my wheels right over top and snug up? Sorry for the super newb questions!
First thing you want to do is check clearances for a wheel with the tire you're going to use mounted on it. Clearance to the wheel flange does not guarantee clearance at the tire sidewall.

I have my doubts that the OE studs are long enough to permit use of 5mm spacers - you need to have at least one stud's diameter of full-form thread engagement, which for a M12x1.25 corresponds to about ten full turns of the nut.

Installing longer wheel studs is not a particularly difficult job, but there's a much better way to do it than with an impact gun like you're probably going to find all over youtube.


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Old 04-10-2021, 11:28 AM   #359
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First thing you want to do is check clearances for a wheel with the tire you're going to use mounted on it. Clearance to the wheel flange does not guarantee clearance at the tire sidewall.

I have my doubts that the OE studs are long enough to permit use of 5mm spacers - you need to have at least one stud's diameter of full-form thread engagement, which for a M12x1.25 corresponds to about ten full turns of the nut.

Installing longer wheel studs is not a particularly difficult job, but there's a much better way to do it than with an impact gun like you're probably going to find all over youtube.


Norm
You're right...without a spacer I get 9 turns, which I could live with, however with a spacer that'll reduce it down to 6 turns...a bit too dicey for my liking.

You were also right about the stud install too, all I can find are videos of guys using an impact gun to tighten them down into place with washers and a nut. Do you mind sharing this better way that you know of?

Also, I see there are two lengths of ARP extended studs available...long (76mm underhead with 53mm thread length) and short (63mm underhead with 45 thread length).

I have seen the install of ARPs, and it looks like if I want to be able to wiggle them into the rears, there is almost no tolerance for extra length. They don't say in the videos which ARP extended studs they are using. Which should I get? Im assuming the short extended studs, which should give me approx 23mm extra length (compared to stock) would be more than sufficient and easiest to stuff into the rear hubs.

Any recommendations for lugs to pair with these? Would my regular mcgard m12's fit with the extended studs? I assume not...with 23mm additional stud length, they'd bottom out in the lug 11mm prior to snugging down onto the wheels...I think my math/perspective is right. I am looking at muteki sr48 open lugs...but im worried about my winter rims that need narrow lugs (hence the mcgard spline drives). I cant tell if the mutekis are narrow enough, and id like one set of lugs to be able to work for both summer and winter wheels. Maybe the gorilla spline open ended lugs?

Thanks for all the help, Norm!

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Old 04-10-2021, 02:37 PM   #360
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You're right...without a spacer I get 9 turns, which I could live with, however with a spacer that'll reduce it down to 6 turns...a bit too dicey for my liking.

You were also right about the stud install too, all I can find are videos of guys using an impact gun to tighten them down into place with washers and a nut. Do you mind sharing this better way that you know of?
No problem - NASIOC's image hosting is acting up, so I'm hoping that I can grab the picture from somewhere else.



Two flat washers, preferably stainless steel (smoother than the zinc-plated kind) and a regular hex nut of the appropriate thread. Snug the rotor down, put a little grease between the washers and also on the wheel studs. You will be able to draw the stud all the way down by hand using only a standard-length 1/2" ratchet (plus some way of keeping the rotor/hub assembly from rotating as well).

The advantages are that you're not beating up the threads on your new wheel studs, or risking breaking them with an overly powerful impact gun. Most likely better for the tapered surface of the nut seats in the wheels themselves (wheels were never designed to serve as part of an installation kit for the studs).

Clean all of the grease off of the wheel stud using a solvent of some sort (acetone works for sure, Brakleen probably would) before installing the wheel.


Quote:
Also, I see there are two lengths of ARP extended studs available...long (76mm underhead with 53mm thread length) and short (63mm underhead with 45 thread length).
I'm pretty sure that the OE threaded length is 1" / 25 mm. The short ones should be fine.


Quote:
I cant tell if the mutekis are narrow enough, and id like one set of lugs to be able to work for both summer and winter wheels. Maybe the gorilla spline open ended lugs?
The gorillas sound like they're going to be your best bet.


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Old 04-10-2021, 03:02 PM   #361
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No problem - NASIOC's image hosting is acting up, so I'm hoping that I can grab the picture from somewhere else.



Two flat washers, preferably stainless steel (smoother than the zinc-plated kind) and a regular hex nut of the appropriate thread. Snug the rotor down, put a little grease between the washers and also on the wheel studs. You will be able to draw the stud all the way down by hand using only a standard-length 1/2" ratchet (plus some way of keeping the rotor/hub assembly from rotating as well).

The advantages are that you're not beating up the threads on your new wheel studs, or risking breaking them with an overly powerful impact gun. Most likely better for the tapered surface of the nut seats in the wheels themselves (wheels were never designed to serve as part of an installation kit for the studs).

Clean all of the grease off of the wheel stud using a solvent of some sort (acetone works for sure, Brakleen probably would) before installing the wheel.



I'm pretty sure that the OE threaded length is 1" / 25 mm. The short ones should be fine.



The gorillas sound like they're going to be your best bet.


Norm
Thnx, I'll go ahead and get it done. As far as lug fitment, to avoid having excess stud sticking out of open ended lugs, I think I'm gonna have a machinest chop the arp studs down so that they'll fit inside my closed end mcgard spline lugs.

Looks like with 23mm increased length, my only needing 3mm of increased length to get to around 11.25mm engagement...I'll be chopping off 20mm of the new studs.

Seems like such a ridiculous ordeal just to gain 3mm of thread engagement, but I suppose that's how it goes!
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Old 04-10-2021, 08:12 PM   #362
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ARP has four stud application for our cars. Their website has everything in inches but I see a 1.75" (stock replacement), 1.95", 2.5" and 3"
Seems like the 1.95" would solve your problem and avoid cutting down a longer stud.

EDIT: now I see the 1.95" and 3" have an untreated nose piece, so much for that idea...

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Old 04-10-2021, 08:24 PM   #363
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ARP has four students application for our cars. Their website has everything in inches but I see a 1.75" (stock replacement), 1.95", 2.5" and 3"
Seems like the 1.95" would solve your problem and avoid cutting down a longer stud.

EDIT: now I see the 1.95" and 3" have an untreated nose piece, so much for that idea...
Boy did I ever get excited for a moment there, .2" is pretty much exactly 5mm...would have been perfect! Thnx anyways.

I do have an inquiry in to ARP requesting a custom set of studs be made for me that are basically exactly what you suggested, 1.95" UHL with no nose...fingers crossed.

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Old 04-11-2021, 07:59 AM   #364
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Thnx, I'll go ahead and get it done. As far as lug fitment, to avoid having excess stud sticking out of open ended lugs, I think I'm gonna have a machinest chop the arp studs down so that they'll fit inside my closed end mcgard spline lugs.

Looks like with 23mm increased length, my only needing 3mm of increased length to get to around 11.25mm engagement...I'll be chopping off 20mm of the new studs.

Seems like such a ridiculous ordeal just to gain 3mm of thread engagement, but I suppose that's how it goes!
I've heard it more than once that having the studs poke through open-ended lug nuts makes it much easier - or possible at all - to check for full thread engagement at tech inspection for various high performance activities (drag racing, autocross, drifting, HPDE, time trialing, wheel-to-wheel, etc.).

But thread engagement can still be a pass-fail situation on the street, with unexpected failure modes. Never mind for now the details or how I know this, except for the fact that a dealership shop was involved and one lug nut out of five was missing . . .




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Old 04-11-2021, 11:37 AM   #365
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Yikes! The idea of one of my wheels or even a lug coming off while driving, and potentially hurting someone else is more than enough to make me feel sure that I need to do this right.
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Old 04-11-2021, 05:15 PM   #366
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So I'm gonna go with the short extended studs: https://www.fastwrx.com/products/arp-wheel-studs

Just want to make sure my math checks out...so these are supposed to be approx 23mm longer.

I am only getting about 6.5 turns with the 5mm spacers in...so I want about 2.5 more turns to make 9 (11.25mm of thread engagement). For 2.5 more turns at 1.25mm turn, I want just over 3mm more thread than I presently have. So chop off 20mm off of the extended studs?

So basically, I'm going to slice off 16 threads from the tip.

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Old 04-11-2021, 06:16 PM   #367
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Why not drive out one of your existing studs, match it up beside one of the new ones, and place a spacer on the end of the existing stud. Mark where the new stud length would cover the length of the old stud plus the spacer thickness. No guessing, measuring, or counting of threads involved. Cut long - err on the side of leaving the new stud too long - you can always trim more off of a too-long stud if you have to, but you can't put back any of what cutting off too much the first time left you with.

You will want to thread a throw-away hex nut on the new studs before you cut them, and you may still want to touch up the end thread with a little triangular file to get rid of any burrs left by the cutting.


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Old 04-11-2021, 06:48 PM   #368
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Why not drive out one of your existing studs, match it up beside one of the new ones, and place a spacer on the end of the existing stud. Mark where the new stud length would cover the length of the old stud plus the spacer thickness. No guessing, measuring, or counting of threads involved. Cut long - err on the side of leaving the new stud too long - you can always trim more off of a too-long stud if you have to, but you can't put back any of what cutting off too much the first time left you with.

You will want to thread a throw-away hex nut on the new studs before you cut them, and you may still want to touch up the end thread with a little triangular file to get rid of any burrs left by the cutting.


Norm
Good call!

Maybe I'll go with these nice long spline drive lugs:
https://www.buildfastcar.com/products/j2-aluminum-black-open-end-spline-acorn-lug-nuts-conical-seat-m12x1-25-t7-011?variant=31800859787312&currency=USD&utm_medium =product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_or ganic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2018-10-06&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gcl id=CjwKCAjwvMqDBhB8EiwA2iSmPBtU-SGQisMri6Gzs-tHWY94XsuCnGSaT2OMpVocx8u2dxuCcutceBoCUL4QAvD_BwE

I was worried that they arent steel, but maybe that's not as big of a deal as I'd thought. With these open ended spline drive lugs, I'll still be able to get my winter rims on, and I'll have way more tolerance on extra lug length. I can just leave a few extra mm's on them on top of the extra 3mm, and it really wont bother me.
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:39 PM   #369
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Weird question / discovery...looking at cross section images in this link:
https://mcgard.com/automotive/lug-nutslug-bolts/splinedrive-lug-nuts/

it looks like my mcgard spline drives have a lot of excess room for the studs to enter post engagement. When I look inside my lugs, they do look hollow past the threads. This could probably uptake an extra few mms of stud length eh? No need to be so precise...
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Old 04-12-2021, 07:33 AM   #370
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Aluminum is not the right material for lug nuts. There's not enough difference in weight to matter which would be the only legitimate justification.

Stay with steel.


Norm
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Old 04-15-2021, 05:35 PM   #371
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Why not drive out one of your existing studs, match it up beside one of the new ones, and place a spacer on the end of the existing stud. Mark where the new stud length would cover the length of the old stud plus the spacer thickness. No guessing, measuring, or counting of threads involved. Cut long - err on the side of leaving the new stud too long - you can always trim more off of a too-long stud if you have to, but you can't put back any of what cutting off too much the first time left you with.

You will want to thread a throw-away hex nut on the new studs before you cut them, and you may still want to touch up the end thread with a little triangular file to get rid of any burrs left by the cutting.


Norm
So I ended up having to get the 3" ARP studs, as the shorter ones are sold out.

I got a stock wheel stud from the dealership (I was there for an alignment anyways), and I'll line that up with the ARP stud to make sure I'm shaving off the right amount.

I test fitted everything, and I only get 5.5 turns on my lugs, so about 7mm engagement. Definitely not enough for my liking.

I also measured my mcgard spline drive lugs, and there is room inside for approx 25mm of stud. Lots to spare.

So I'm gonna take your advice and err on the side of caution. I'll cut the studs down so that I have an extra 10mm of stud, and close 1.5x thread engagement as the diameter of the stud.

This should also allow me to take off the spacers and still fit my winter tires/wheels on with same lugs on studs.

I am a little nervous about the stud install process, but I figure it's a battle I can win with patience. I've got 14 and 17 spanners for the calipers...I think I'll need to pick up a deep 19 inch socket to suck in the studs, but otherwise should be good to go.

For now, it's wait a few days for the studs to come in, and then hit them with an angle grinder...I'm going to try a diamond metal cutting cut-off wheel (maybe a zip disc if I can get one), bevel it with a grinding wheel and flap disc, and then work anything left with a small triangle file. Fun!
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:20 PM   #372
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For posterity sake...

Cutting ARP studs was a non issue with a good quality angle grinder and zip disc (2 to be exact, Walter xxtreme), grinding wheel, and a flap disc to clean up. Took maybe 5 mins per stud, working slow and carefully. Only a minute to cut through with zip disc.

Stud install went as smooth as can be expected...didnt grease the washers (forgot to), but otherwise all of the advice Norm gave was really spot on, plus a couple youtube vids. Didnt have to do anything extra on the rears other than take a few springs and the retaining clip off of ebrake (shortened studs to just 10mm over factory length, made squeezing them in a cinch).

Brake clearance is excellent, especially in the rear, the 4 pots do not have as much width.

I am very close to wheel rub on my front tires at full turn...may shave some of my mud guards down, but will see how it is first.

And Im getting almost 15 turns, almost 18mm of thread engagement in my mcgard spline drive lugs.

Thank you all for the assistance...it's been a journey, and that stud install beat my body up, lol. Time for a beer and some bbq.
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