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Old 10-13-2005, 08:42 PM   #26
burnside
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Excellent idea! Bump for the wagon thread

Also, what do you guys think about 245/40 vs. 235/40 (Falken FK451) for my application:

-02 wagon
-Prodrive springs
-rolled fenders
-17x7.5 ET48 wheels
-98% street driven
-0 toe F/R, ~ -1.3 F/R camber with driver in car

I am most concerned with the amount of sidewall "slop"/overhang and if this would adversely affect handling or steering response. I'd like to go 245/40 because it would be closer to stock rolling diameter and because salaki did it .


Also, here's the general specs for the tires in question:

Specification Sidewall Radius Diameter Circumference Revs/Mile Difference
205/55-16 4.4in 12.4in 24.9in 78.2in 811 0.0%
225/45-17 4.0in 12.5in 25.0in 78.5in 808 0.4%
215/45-17 3.8in 12.3in 24.6in 77.3in 819 -1.0%
225/45-17 4.0in 12.5in 25.0in 78.5in 808 0.4%
235/40-17 3.7in 12.2in 24.4in 76.7in 827 -1.9%
235/45-17 4.2in 12.7in 25.3in 79.6in 796 1.8%
245/40-17 3.9in 12.4in 24.7in 77.6in 816 -0.6%

(courtesy of http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html)
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Last edited by burnside; 10-13-2005 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:50 AM   #27
ka mano
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Default Your patch is as wide as mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX
I'll list mine even though they read "225"... they are pretty wide for a 225.
Welcome to the thread, BIGSKYWRX, and thanks for the info. It's good to know you're not rubbin! Keep us posted on how you set up your Rs and how they work out!
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:30 AM   #28
ka mano
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Default got a question? tell us your goals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnside
...what do you guys think about 245/40 vs. 235/40 (Falken FK451) for my application... 17x7.5 ET48 wheels... 98% street driven... .
BlkWRXWag, are you trackin this thread? Your buddy tried the 245 on a 7.5 with no reported problems as of last April. Is he still rollin them OK?

For what it's worth, 2ndGearFling has 'seen it done.' It'd be great, though, if someone actually runnin this setup could report in.

Welcome, burnside! I can see from your wheel diameter lookup how the 235/40 and 235/45 have almost the same variance from stock... and both numbers are really small. I'd forgotten their absolute values were so close to each other but remembered from my own decision-makin in June that they were both under two. Their respective variances from stock are 1.2 and 1.3% greater than the 245/40. That's nothin. Lookin at the .9 inch difference in the diameter of the 235/40 and 235/45 wheels (rims + tires), I prob'ly hallucinated the gearing advantage I reported in my 2nd posting. Still, if you do go 235, you're better off with the 40 IMO to minimize fitment concerns.

So what else are you lookin for? Looks? Handling? Speed? Maybe just maxin out those possibilities and seein how far you can go? It's all cool with me.

If you want handling, you won't really need the 10 mm you're considerin unless you're takin a hard turn at speed. I've experimented with just that on my 17x7.5 235s and I've been able to break traction in a decreasing-radius turn at ~80. It was fun, but then I wasn't havin to worry about my rubber spillin out of its rims.

Somebody with 17x8 245s might have held the line, don't know. Don't know if 17x7.5 245s would pop their beads in a hard turn at 80, either. Some 245s are wider than others... maybe they'd all spill, maybe none. Only one way to find out, but then again I wouldn't have wanted that on my mind while handlin those turns at 80... or 60 for that matter.

If you want speed you gotta think about rotational mass and traction at launch. A 245 is bound to be heavier than a 235 with the same profile. That's askin your horses to pull more ounces each revolution, ounces located at the worst possible place, farthest from the hub. You'll drop some acceleration and top speed.

Don't know what's under your hood, but don't worry about breakin launch traction with 235s, unless you're somewhere north of 297 ft lbs at the wheels.

If you're goin for looks / takin it to the max, and you don't turn like a crazy ka mano, than I'd get the 245s and go for it. While you're shoppin, think about buyin some 8s or 8.5s and some peace of mind.

Last edited by ka mano; 10-14-2005 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 10-14-2005, 03:50 AM   #29
MBREX02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aakrusen
wagon MY: Sorry, Sedan 02 (but this might help)
rim size: 17x8
rim offset: 48
rim brand & model: 5Zigen FN01R-C
tire brand & model: Falken Ziex ZE-512
tire size: 235/45/17
section width: Um....235
camber adjustments: 0 Camber front and rear (+/- .25)
suspension: Yes, but I think every car has suspension
lowered?: Yes, Prodrive springs
fender rolling?: No
rubbing w/o load?: No
rubbing w/ load?: Only at 60+ mph around oval track
(handling /gearing): Crappy, these tires suck because they are all-season. If you autocross then don't buy these tires, they are not sticky enough. Gearing is a little taller due to my choice in tire size.

Wait a minute! I have the same wheels with 225/45/17s and my tire rubbed. I had to roll my fenders and my car is only lowered by an inch! How do you not experience rubbing?
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Old 10-14-2005, 09:19 AM   #30
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He says his did rub around a track. I think w/o a load (weight) or high speed turning- you can fit very wide tires- but who wants to go in a straight line all the time
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Old 10-14-2005, 10:25 AM   #31
salaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBREX02
Wait a minute! I have the same wheels with 225/45/17s and my tire rubbed. I had to roll my fenders and my car is only lowered by an inch! How do you not experience rubbing?
I'm assuming you have a Wagon.
aakrusen has a Sedan and Sedan's rear fender can accomodate wider tires probably up to 235 depending on tires and wheel width and offset too w/o fender rolling

If you have a Sedan and it rubs w/ that setup w/ 225 then it's weird

Back to Wagon topic..

Anyone fits 255/35/18 X 18.5

Last edited by salaki; 10-14-2005 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 10-14-2005, 05:49 PM   #32
burnside
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Thank you all (especially salaki for the helpful PM)!

I think I am going to stick between 225/45 or 235/40 (Falken FK451) because I know I will not have rubbing issues under big loads/cornering and because the tire will better fit the 17x7.5 with less sidewall bulge and peripheral rotational mass.

Anyone know of any issues of rims bending because of the shorter sidewall on the 235/40? (I will be doing 98% street).

soh-fast EDIT: I will go with 235/40 just so I can post back in this thread
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:58 PM   #33
burnside
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Another thing I've been thinking about:

When we use any tire that is not exactly stock diameter, what happens when we need to use the spare tire? Will the differentials be okay with running 3 tires of one diameter and one of a different diameter?
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Old 10-24-2005, 12:54 AM   #34
MK19_
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wagon MY: 02
rim size: 17*7.5
rim offset: 52
rim brand & model: Prodrive P7
tire brand & model: Hankook K104's
tire size: 225/45-17
tread (actual patch) width: dunno
camber adjustments: -1 degree
suspension: STi wagon struts- Prodrive P1 springs
lowered?: yep- bout 1.3-1.5"
fender rolling?: nope
rubbing w/o load?: nope
rubbing w/ load?: nope
(handling /gearing): Handles great, gearing is gpood too, but I am also running a 4.444 tranny; so it is really hard to say for sure. I just got STi V7 golds and I am thinking highly about squeezing in some 245's... that is risky tho, so we'll see.
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Old 11-07-2005, 02:33 PM   #35
rdy4flt
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Wagon MY: 2005 Saabaru 92x Aero
Rim size: 17x7.5
Rim offset: 53
Rim brand & model: BBS (What 04' Sti came with)
Tire brand & model: BFGoodrich Geforce KDW-2
Tire size: 225/45/17
Tread (actual patch) width: don't know...but section width is 8.9"
Camber adjustments: stock
Suspension: Stock, except for Perrin rear Swaybar.
Fender rolling?: nope
Rubbing w/o load?: nope
Rubbing w/ load?: nope
(handling /gearing): Handling is great. Awesome traction some. No rubbing what so ever, we will see what happens after spring upgrade.



Rudi

Last edited by rdy4flt; 11-07-2005 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:06 PM   #36
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It's getting close to crunch time for me to order tires (they will be victoracers that much I know).

Play it safe 225/50/16 section width 9.2", tread width 8.6"- this is mesure on a 7" rim- I will be on a 8" rim. This I know will work as the specs are nearly identical to the S02's I'm running now (apparantly Victos run a little wide as well).

Or 245/45/16 section width 9.7", tread width 9.1"- this is measure on a 8" rim which I will be running.

The 245's have one other advantage besides more tread- they are also .3" shorter than the 225's- this would be beneficial from a "gearing" prospective.

To summarize my setup I'm on STI wagon springs (mild lowering ~ 10-15mm), spring rates are 223/192, camber is -2.0ish front, -1.5ish rear, rear fenders are rolled.

Decisions, decisions
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:34 PM   #37
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Tough decision, I'm just sad nobody makes a 245/40-16. I believe someone use to, but no more. 1.2 smaller dia, -4.7 gearing advantage, mercy.

Anyway,I'd go with the 245's. I've had em' on my 2002 wrx wagon before with no rubbing. Of course I've had my fenders rolled for over a year now.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:38 PM   #38
salaki
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You know how I would answer it

245/45/16...

Watch out for the front inside fender rubing w/ thicker tires.

My 245/40/18 on the MY04 STi rubs in the inner front fender.
Seems like I can cure it w/ 255/35/18 - lower profile tire.
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Old 12-19-2005, 08:10 PM   #39
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That's two 's on my left shoulder

none of these
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Old 12-19-2005, 11:50 PM   #40
ka mano
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Default if there's no 235s available to split the difference...I

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Old 12-20-2005, 09:38 AM   #41
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I guess I knew what the consensus was going to be
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Old 12-20-2005, 10:11 AM   #42
ka mano
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Cool Blind but happy

It's easier to shave rubber off than to glue it on, no?

What harm could there be in a little rubbin?
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Old 12-20-2005, 10:43 AM   #43
Migo
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wagon MY: 2003
rim size: 18x7.5
rim offset: +53
rim brand & model: Prodrive P1
tire brand & model: BFG Scorchers
tire size: 225/40ZR18
tread (actual patch) width: dunno
camber adjustments: -1
suspension: stock
lowered?: no
fender rolling?: no
rubbing w/o load?: no
rubbing w/ load?: yes
(handling /gearing): stock

It rubs the front INNER FENDER under moderate speed full-lock u-turns. Think I can alleviate this problem by getting 2-3mm wheel spacers and rolled outer fenders? I'm getting performance springs/struts soon and that will lower me an additional 1.2" in the front, so I'm going to have to think of something.

Help...? I think it all has to do with the rims' +53 offset. Maybe a 48-50 offset would have been better.
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Old 12-20-2005, 11:49 AM   #44
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Yeah ^ one of the exceptioons of a higher offset being the best- inboard rubbing.

I'm currently running 46 et (Volk TE's) and inboard rubbng hasn't been an issue.

omahasubaru pm'd me w/ a good idea that I need to think over- that's run a 245/45 up front w/ a 225/50 in the rear- increased grip up front. There are a lot of time attack folks running a staggered setup like this w/ pretty good luck.

A couple of things I need to consider is there is a small height difference between the 225/50 and 245/45 ~ .3" - it might actually be a smidge less as that is measurements on a 7" rim for the 225 and 8" rim on the 245- both of these would be on a 8" rim.

The other thing I've considered is the same tire front & rear- w/ 8" rims up front and 7.5" in the rear.

It's never easy
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Old 12-20-2005, 01:35 PM   #45
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Just noticed in my Les Schwab (West Coast) Monthly Tire flyer Newpaper that Les now carries 225/40ZR-16's and 245/35ZR-16's in the Toyo Proxes T1-R. Scary

Contact the store nearest you

www.LesSchwab.com

www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html


Supremo

Last edited by El Supremo; 12-20-2005 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 12-20-2005, 05:10 PM   #46
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Bigsky, im currently thinking of doing the same thing on my wagon for track wheels......8's up front, 7.5 out back. this has been done for years in japan. let us know what you decide.
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Old 12-23-2005, 05:28 PM   #47
ka mano
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Default Shopping tip...

Consider bigger tires for Christmas!
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Old 01-04-2006, 11:58 PM   #48
mcdrama
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wagon MY: 2004
rim size: 17
rim offset: 48
rim brand & model: Rota Sub Zero

------------------------------------
PIRELLIS
------------------------------------


tire brand & model: Pirelli PZero Nero M+S
tire size: 215/45/17
tread (actual patch) width: ???
camber adjustments: -1.6 rear -0.9 front
suspension: Stock
lowered?: half the life span of the tire
fender rolling?: no
rubbing w/o load?: no
rubbing w/ load?: yes on rear, removed rubber/steal cable liner and no more rubbing.

------------------------------------
FALKENS
------------------------------------


tire brand & model: Falken ST-115
tire size: 225/45/17
tread (actual patch) width: ???
camber adjustments: -1 rear -1 front
suspension: Stock
lowered?: half the life span of the tires
fender rolling?: no
rubbing w/o load?: no
rubbing w/ load?: yes on rear, but only when the tire pressure is low and I am pushing it hard.
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Old 01-15-2006, 09:02 PM   #49
elsanto
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Picking up a set of stock evo tires (235 45 17 yoko A046's) for my summer tires.. fingers crossed they won't rub on my 7.5" te37's with prodrive springs and kyb struts..........

might just roll the fender for good measure though once it gets warmer that is.
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Old 01-15-2006, 09:22 PM   #50
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good choice of tires- they get pretty rave reviews
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