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Old 11-26-2014, 08:53 PM   #26
RJSMITH
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normally at a body shop when we weld on new qtrs in the jamb we cut a piece of the old qtr and make a sleeve piece slide it behind the exhisting piece then you put the new qtr over an basically plug weld the sleeve to the two parts then weld up the gap grind it down and give it a skim coat of filler like this
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:14 PM   #27
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That sounds doable, thanks! Are there any tricks to make sure it doesn't rust? I'm worried about the parts that can't be accessed after getting welded into place. The backside of them that is.

edit:

something like : ??

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 11-26-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:09 PM   #28
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weld thru primer on the bare metal. that rubberized stuff isnt really for that. epoxy primer would be what you would spray if anything. on the outside before primer use etch prime on bare metal to prevent rust
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJSMITH View Post
weld thru primer on the bare metal. that rubberized stuff isnt really for that. epoxy primer would be what you would spray if anything. on the outside before primer use etch prime on bare metal to prevent rust

Cool. Thank you for the help. Can I ask one more? : Is the rattle can rustolium etching primer any good or do I need to get some other "pro grade" stuff ?
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:01 PM   #30
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ive used all kinds i would assume theyre all pretty much the same
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:36 PM   #31
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Here's where I'm at now:



Primed and ready get the fender attached. Here's the game plan:

Tack like this:



Then seal the rest with panel bond like:



What do you guys think?


As a note: i wanted to tack all the way around but I don't think there's a good way to do that with the inner fender. It's really thin now and guaranteed to burn through. So that's why I'm planning on bonding that. According to 3m's sight, it can hold up to 3000 psi, so doing this should be good. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:12 AM   #32
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First off, that's pretty awesome what you are doing, that you are not afraid to cut up your car like that.

Why are you saying that the inner fender is thinner now? Is it not the same thickness as the outer skin? If I recall on my old school RS the inner sheet metal was actually a little thicker that the fender itself.

Also, are you going to but joint weld the fender?

Alex
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:44 AM   #33
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If you're burning through, you need lower voltage or faster wire feed speed. I would practice on spare metal first to get your settings right.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:10 AM   #34
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Also, I just saw earlier in the thread that you are using .028 wire. I know you can get 0.23 wire. See if that would make a difference. And yes, it took me a lot of practice on my old scrap fender to get it right, but you can do it even without the copper spoon. If fact, I ended up having more consistent success without it.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osgood30 View Post
First off, that's pretty awesome what you are doing, that you are not afraid to cut up your car like that.

Why are you saying that the inner fender is thinner now? Is it not the same thickness as the outer skin? If I recall on my old school RS the inner sheet metal was actually a little thicker that the fender itself.

Also, are you going to but joint weld the fender?

Alex
Thanks, and the metal is now thinner as a byproduct of cleaning off the factory paint and getting down to the bare metal. I used a sanding disk on the grinder as that was the only way to get the job done. I tried a wire brush wheel and that wasn't taking off anything. It would almost "smear" the paint to another location and the metal was left looking dirty.

The inner fender started off feeling tough but I can bend it with my fingers now, which is why I'm saying it's thinner. I'm planning on doing butt welds on the door jam and lap on the fender skins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CRX7 View Post
If you're burning through, you need lower voltage or faster wire feed speed. I would practice on spare metal first to get your settings right.
Agree with this statement. Unfortunate I'm a little limited to what I can do with my welder as it has only 4 settings for power. I'm using the thinnest wire available, lowest power setting (low-1), and the fastest wire speed. Based on everything I tried so far, I don't think it'll work to tack the inner fender to the outer skin or to tack the cut marks in the inner fender. Basically any butt weld. Will work fine for the lap welds though.

So a little more detail on the fitup:
The inner fender was cut along the grove just barely past the tack welds that hold the inner fender to the original outer fender. This was done so I could cut the inner fender every inch and then roll it up a bit and attach it at a higher point on the new outer fender. However because the new fenders are wider, it's a tough reach. Have about a 1-2 dimes distance but only on a couple of parts.



Technically, I could use a welding spoon and add more metal to fill the cut gaps and to the ends of the pieces that are short but is it worth it given that 3m panel bond is available. After watching the their instructional video I'm thinking it would be best to smear it over the inside and outside of the inner fender, clamp everything into place, let it all dry, then tack everything that isn't panel bonded every inch. Grind the welds and run a think layer of panel bond to fill between the tacks.

Yes, I'm kinda using this panel bond as a crutch to the perfect job, but it "should" be fine. As 2006Sti said, it's a pain to sand, which leads me to believe it's tough enough for this job.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:27 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osgood30 View Post
Also, I just saw earlier in the thread that you are using .028 wire. I know you can get 0.23 wire. See if that would make a difference. And yes, it took me a lot of practice on my old scrap fender to get it right, but you can do it even without the copper spoon. If fact, I ended up having more consistent success without it.

Interesting, might have to look further into this. However, I did just get a tig from eastwood, but I doubt I can get good enough with it fast enough to finish this project.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:11 PM   #37
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Ok, so you guys were right about this thing being weldable. I wasn't having any success previously because I was being a dumb-dumb.

Mechanical Problems
- I mixed up the 0.9mm and 0.6mm welding tips and I was using the wrong one.
- The pressure arm wasn't pushing the wire into the grove on the roller correctly and that resulted in inconsistent feed speeds.

Me Problems
- I suck at welding
- I was starting a puddle on the corner, no good. I had much more success when I started a puddle a ways in and dragged it quickly over the gap. Then built on that
- Took a while to get the wire speed figured out for this.
- And cleaning the paint off the back of the work area also helps quite a bit



Not bad? Should be ok for getting everything tacked into place. Still dont' think I'm gonna weld the inner fender to the outer, seems like a lot of hassle. Thoughts?
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:44 PM   #38
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Some more progress




Last edited by Bad Noodle; 12-06-2014 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 12-06-2014, 07:50 PM   #39
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Great thread, keep it up!
That's a lot of sheet metal to weld and it's nice to see a non-professional tackle it.

Did you cut the fenders off of the donor vehicle yourself or did you buy them like that?
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Old 12-06-2014, 10:03 PM   #40
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^ thanks dude. I found a guy locally that parts out wrx's so I asked him to cut me the fenders.

In the mean time, I was an dumb dumb again because I rushing to get those welds on and forgot to check the fitment on the bottom. So had to grind everything off and try again... doh

But got it all aligned and test fitted the bumper:



doh!!! Looks like the wagon bumper won't work, it's 1/4" too long. So I'm gonna have to figure out something with that. 1 step forward, couple back... just like every other DIY project.
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:39 PM   #41
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Finished welding up everything











Then I put the panel bond over the welds... I don't think it's working correctly. It's pretty runny and does not fill in the holes as hoped.



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Old 12-08-2014, 08:30 PM   #42
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Be very careful how you do this, heat will cause distortion. Like if it sits in the sun it will pop in or out if there is any residual tension.

A lot of your welds were way hot and not clean. cleaning extremely well and wiping with MEK will create a much stronger and cleaner/easier/stronger weld.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
Be very careful how you do this, heat will cause distortion. Like if it sits in the sun it will pop in or out if there is any residual tension.

A lot of your welds were way hot and not clean. cleaning extremely well and wiping with MEK will create a much stronger and cleaner/easier/stronger weld.
Cool, thanks for the feedback. Good Points. Let me ask: What is the proper way to clean metal before welding? I sanded it down to the bare metal using a sanding wheel on a grinder then ran a brass wire wheel over it before welding.

There is definitely tension in the metal as it had to be pushed into place near the tail light given that the two fenders are shaped differently. So I guess we'll see what happens with that.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
So question for you guys:

I'm having some trouble filling holes in the sheet metal using the lincoln electric handy mig welder with gas and 0.28 wire.

The issue:
- takes a "while" to get a good arc
- Heats up the metal and burns through in the mean time

Here's how things are going now:

im no body man, but you really need to spread the beads around. you cant go in a straight line spot on top of spot, the metal gets too hot and will blow out like you are having happen and also can warp the panel.

for instance do a bead every inch or so down the panel. when you have reached the end come back and do a bead between ever previous bead. and so on and so on until the seam is filled.

EDIT : Whoops didn't realize their was a second page. props to undertaking this job, cant wait to see it finished and painted.

Last edited by johnt2k7; 12-08-2014 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:01 AM   #45
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Some notes on stuff:

Prep:
- I cleaned all contact edges with a 40 grit sanding wheel on a grinder
- Went over everything with a brass brush wheel --> Shiny metal
- Sprayed on 2 thin layers of 3m weld-thru primer

Assembly:
- Lined up the panel so the door gap is even between the wheel arch and the door frame. Used this as my guide
- Put a couple tacks in critical places and checked alignment
- Realized it will not align 100%. There is about a dime's gap between the sedan fender and the wagon panel along the bottom edge where the fender meets the bumper. The first test fit I had about 1/8" but managed to squeeze it down. If I moved it up to meet, that would misalign the door gap.
- Same goes for the door jam. That's gonna take some art work to look nice but can be done.
- lesson is that the parts you see will align quite well but the parts you don't need a little work.
- Tack welding the inner fender to the outer along the inside worked out well. It's solid.

Products used:
- 3m weld thru-primer is crap. It scratches off easily and when welding through it it almost feels like you're welding a dirty surface. The sound is noticeably different, arc is harder to start, puddle is hard to control. I ended up cleaning off as much as I could from exposed surfaces. Might be ok for back of panels. Before applying, everything was shiny metal and was wiped down with acetone, then sprayed 2 thin layers as the instructions told me to do.
- Panel Bond - Is probably best used for bonding panels not filling gaps like I tried to used it. It feels like a little thinner version of jb-weld as is about the same to work with. I wanted use it as it should be really strong according to it's material sheet but will probably end up sanding most of it off and adding some more welds along the door jam.
- The 0.025" welding wire was a huge help, so thank you for whoever suggested it. Filling gaps with it became pretty easy compared to what was happening before.

So next steps:
- sand off the panel bond
- add some more tacks if possible (the panel bond won't contaminate the weld)
- will probably line the two fenders from the inside with the stuff as that's probably a good use for it.
- Start the body filler work

EDIT:

I should have probably used:



instead of a panel bond. Looks like I'll be sanding all the PB off and doing it again with this stuff. oh well

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 12-09-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:52 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazdan View Post
Great thread, keep it up!
That's a lot of sheet metal to weld and it's nice to see a non-professional tackle it.

Did you cut the fenders off of the donor vehicle yourself or did you buy them like that?
I cut the fenders off my wrecked 06 and gave them to the guy that bought my 02. He sold them to another person who decided he wasn't going to use them after all. If you want them I can get you his contact info.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:58 AM   #47
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Nice work. I love threads like these.
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Old 12-12-2014, 05:29 PM   #48
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I have mechie3's quarters and they are for sale as he said

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Old 12-13-2014, 04:02 PM   #49
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Default Project Widebody Wagon - slowly moving towards success

Another entry into the mistake journal:

1.) panel bond is not for filling gaps. Its like a more runny but stronger jb weld.

2.) when welding the panel on, don't weld above the line. Instead, drill a little hole below the line and fill it. Why? Because when you grind the bead down and sand it so the top panel edge transitions into the under panel, you grind away all your welds.

Here is what I'm talking about:



I made those vertical so I can tack the fenders together below the line.

Welded again



Now came the rage reinforced body filler. It's good stuff but dries in 5 min. I had a working time of like 3-4 min. Also, followed instructions on the hardner and found that making 2-3in puddles with a little less hardner works better than 1 4" puddle.







Yup, looks like crap for now. Will look much better sanded. But the stuff is really good for filling gaps.

Plan is to:
Sand down a bit
Do first round of lightweight filler
Prime everything.
Panel bond fender flare
Do a quick sand
Start the other side.

That should be ok. I can get the other side done, work on the bumper, then do the finishing work outside when it gets a little warmer.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:57 PM   #50
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The inside-wheel well part came out pretty nice:



Then sanded the fender:



Starting to realize that sanding this part even will be tougher than I thought. Any tips? I was using a finishing sander and a 6" sanding block. Should I get a 12" block?
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