Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday October 6, 2022
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-10-2022, 10:24 AM   #7526
OldBlu
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 527735
Join Date: Dec 2021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I don't get the point in acting as though Subaru's AWD and Top Safety aren't noteworthy factors in people's desire to purchase them. What's gained?
Who is saying Subaru buyers don't value safety?

The only argument I'm reading is other manufacturers value safety similarly to Subaru. So although Subaru may rule out rebadging a vehicle based on a poor safety rating, why would they rule out rebadging ANY and ALL vehicles when other manufacturers make vehicles that are similarly safe?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
OldBlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-10-2022, 10:31 AM   #7527
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Northbridge, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBlu View Post
Who is saying Subaru buyers don't value safety?

The only argument I'm reading is other manufacturers value safety similarly to Subaru. So although Subaru may rule out rebadging a vehicle based on a poor safety rating, why would they rule out rebadging ANY and ALL vehicles when other manufacturers make vehicles that are similarly safe?
IIRC, the other manufacturers have only more recently become "similarly" safe. But Subaru, historically, has been ahead of the game where safety is concerned. Why would Subaru allow other manufacturers to exclusively make vehicles for their own brand and potentially harm their brand image? It's much better for them to accept full responsibility and improve their own product. Saab, GM, I think Isuzu as well, and now Toyota, have all come to Subaru to make vehicles.

My comment was noting that if other manufacturers have Top Safety Pick+ vehicles as good as Subarus, then that's a more recent bias. Which is fine, because everyone has to start somewhere. But it shoves aside Subaru's consistent record of being Top Safety Pick.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 10:32 AM   #7528
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
RWD Camry
Pull me over red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Sorry. I had scanned and only saw swim deck(still about that). Didn't see this.

Soo, I still haven't seen anyone answer my question about the redline. People bitched and moaned about how power dropped off around 5700rpm on the 2.0 liter and when dyno charts of the 2.4 came out, there was a similar dip. It just had better power delivery up to that point. Sooo, if the power if dropping off before redline why does it matter that it is 6100? I drove one on a track and can't say I even noticed it. Still didn't notice it when we finally started getting them and I took it for a spin again. I was asking this question before the drive and am now more curious.

TLDR: More RPM is more fun, even if you aren't making more power.


The long bit...
6.1k redline = Primarily, it's less enjoyable to drive spiritedly, and makes it feel more of an appliance than a performance or enthusiast vehicle.

Mazda3 turbo has a similar issue - power peaks at 5k, redline at ~6.2k IIRC. (the 6AT is not helping the Mazda3 turbo either)

Ever driven a 6mt TDi Jetta/Golf? 5k RPM redline, makes peak torque from 1.8k-3.2k, peak HP at 4k, from 4k-5k power drops off pretty rapidly; very much not a fun car to drive spiritedly.

It's a 2.4L OHC H4, not a 7.0L OHV V8, it should be comparatively easy to design it to spin faster when you aren't dealing with as much rotational mass.

The FA24 was paired with the turbo it was, and tuned the way it was, in order to deliver a broad & flat torque curve, while meeting emissions & fuel economy targets & hopefully surviving through the warranty period without catastrophic failure in significant numbers; great in a CUV with an auto trans that will never be pushed hard in it's life, and only has to merge onto the highway well enough; the opposite of great in a performance or enthusiast application where the engine is one of, if not the main factor when it comes to driving enjoyment.

People complained about the VA coming with equal length headers because it "didn't sound like a Subaru anymore" even though EL headers meant more power potential, better fuel economy, and improved engine longevity, not to mention that people swapped EL headers onto EJ's for years before Subaru finally made the switch to EL headers.

Anecdotal example 1: My 06 wrx had a 6.5k redline from the factory, when I put a tune on it I bumped it to 7k, with the TD04 and stock downpipe power dropped off around ~5.5k or so, but there was more flexibility when it came to engine braking & shift points with a higher redline, and winding out an engine is fun, even if you are accelerating slower than you would be if you had shifted earlier, but that only matters at a race track, something the majority of these cars will never see, and even then, more RPM to play with gives you more options when it comes to reacting to a situation.
After a downpipe and retune the higher RPMs were more usable, admittedly the TD04 was still out of steam that high up, but it was more fun to drive with a higher redline.

Anecdotal example 2: My IS350 redlines at 6.6k with fuel cut at 6.8k, if I keep it long term I will get it tuned and bump that to 7.2k (7.4k is possible, but apparently valve float can happen) because that would allow me more range to play with, but also my 2-3 shift will happen after 60mph instead of before. That's a 3.5L Toyota V6 that has a variant in nearly every Toyota/Lexus under the sun (although it's being phased out in favor of the I-4 hybrid setup in some of those applications now).

I chose RWD over AWD, even though I live in New England, the 8AT is better & quicker than the 6AT, and RWD is more fun than AWD. If they offered a 6mt I probably would have taken that over the 8AT and taken the hit in fuel economy & acceleration because it's more fun.

I chose an F-sport because there is a S+ mode with more aggressive & quicker shifts (compared to the S mode in non-F-sports). Harder and quicker shifts are more fun, and I use S & S+ exclusively in manual mode.

I'd also prefer an NA V8 over an I6T or V6T, although it's going to be slower, it's going to sound better and be more fun.

Anecdotal example 3: When we ordered my wifes Highlander we test drove the hybrid AWD and the V6 AWD. I preferred the V6, it sounded better, power delivery was more linear, but the Hybrid was as quick getting up to highway speeds, and honestly quicker to respond at lower RPMs where it's going to spend most of its time anyways. The V6 AWD models average ~21mpg, the I4 hybrids average ~35mpg, I4 hybrid was a no brainer for it's intended use, mainly family trip vehicle, shopping, etc., an appliance.

Anecdotal example 4: My friend has a 2016 Impreza premium sedan w/CVT, When I drive it, I don't even look at the tach, and honestly I'd have to google what the redline is; but it doesn't matter, it's just a car for A-B duty, it's focus isn't fun or performance, nor is it marketed as such, it's just an appliance.
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 10:56 AM   #7529
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Sid03DVT

You have latched onto the key point here that Subie Fanboys of today just cannot get past. Subaru use to build FUN cars. Every generation since the bugeye (some would say the GC) has become less FUN, and more mainstream. They start out with good intentions, then like any profitable tavern, they start diluting things. More weight, more features, less sporty, less power, less performance.

Subaru has abandoned fun for middle of the road, milquetoast cars now that appeal to a more broad range of people. This is ideal for run of the mill mainstream car manufacturer, but it is NOT what brought any of us here to Subaru in the last 90's and early 2000's. Quirky and FUN was what got us here. That is only found on bill boards now and Subaru is left building forgettable cars. The best performance car they make is the BRZ. WRX is just a small legacy soccer mom sedan now.

WRXtrek is what we have. The more mainsteam and boring they make them, the more they sell. Worked for Toyota and Honda for decades. Subaru is just late to the party.

Now T and H have revamped both the Accord and Camry and they are most likely quicker than the WRX as well. Definitely look better.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 10:56 AM   #7530
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

This double post **** needs to stop
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:05 AM   #7531
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Northbridge, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Definitely agreed they don't make them like they used to.

Unfortunately Subaru isn't the only who isn't making "exciting" cars, although other manufacturers resurrected "fun" cars in the last several years. These things always go back and forth, like a race. One is more ahead of the other, then the other is more ahead than the one. To and fro as such. Example: ND Miata was "better" than the BRZ. S2000 was better than both. Now the new BRZ is equaling the S2000 and better than the ND Miata (from what I've seen and read as these things are always subjective).
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:06 AM   #7532
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

Not going to quote it cause it's a lot and I greatly appreciate that effort in response.



Soo, essentially, it's about "feels" and not an actual mechanical thing. I mean, I understand high RPMs being cool. Especially when I watch Indy/F1 races. Never had the privilege of hearing one in person. Just the hate that it doesn't have something that would ultimately be useless on that engine anyway. Seems like someone just trying to find as many things to hate cause they didn't get what they wanted.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:14 AM   #7533
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Sid03DVT

You have latched onto the key point here that Subie Fanboys of today just cannot get past. Subaru use to build FUN cars. Every generation since the bugeye (some would say the GC) has become less FUN, and more mainstream. They start out with good intentions, then like any profitable tavern, they start diluting things. More weight, more features, less sporty, less power, less performance.

Subaru has abandoned fun for middle of the road, milquetoast cars now that appeal to a more broad range of people. This is ideal for run of the mill mainstream car manufacturer, but it is NOT what brought any of us here to Subaru in the last 90's and early 2000's. Quirky and FUN was what got us here. That is only found on bill boards now and Subaru is left building forgettable cars. The best performance car they make is the BRZ. WRX is just a small legacy soccer mom sedan now.

WRXtrek is what we have. The more mainsteam and boring they make them, the more they sell. Worked for Toyota and Honda for decades. Subaru is just late to the party.

Now T and H have revamped both the Accord and Camry and they are most likely quicker than the WRX as well. Definitely look better.

Totally subjective. They are fun enough they still sell well. I'm not even saying the part where they sold in record numbers. Granted I'd say that if each new gen had gotten more power, THAT would be more fun; but, fun is very subjective. For some a tarmac track is fun. Others it's climbing that mountain(and they put some crappy looking cladding on the WRX. They didn't make it a CUV). Some of what you mention they added is also required by the government. I'd bet Subaru would LOVE() to make you that perfect 2004 STI with 400hp; but, things are not that easy. And like another, bringing up a car that will be really limited by one of the largest manufacturers on the planet isn't a fair thing to complain that one not nearly as large doesn't do it. They tried. Our wonderful government threw a monkey wrench into that.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:17 AM   #7534
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Justy,

The way you casually dismiss the 'feeling' of Fun as unimportant is exactly why you fit in there. Fun to drive is made up of ENTIRELY feelings. My old 240Z is slower and probably cannot corner half as good as most modern cars, but it is 200% as fun as anything under 100000 dollars.

I am sorry, but 'feels' is the single most important thing to an automotive enthusiast who loves driving. With one statement, you have categorically defined yourself.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:19 AM   #7535
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Totally subjective. They are fun enough they still sell well. I'm not even saying the part where they sold in record numbers. Granted I'd say that if each new gen had gotten more power, THAT would be more fun; but, fun is very subjective. For some a tarmac track is fun. Others it's climbing that mountain(and they put some crappy looking cladding on the WRX. They didn't make it a CUV). Some of what you mention they added is also required by the government. I'd bet Subaru would LOVE() to make you that perfect 2004 STI with 400hp; but, things are not that easy. And like another, bringing up a car that will be really limited by one of the largest manufacturers on the planet isn't a fair thing to complain that one not nearly as large doesn't do it. They tried. Our wonderful government threw a monkey wrench into that.
These are good enough to make money..

My God, why are you even on a car enthusiast board. Is there not an accountant's forum or a bankers blog you can go to.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:28 AM   #7536
Russ_G93
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 528403
Join Date: Jan 2022
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
22' Clad-RX
17' F250 Diesel, 18' Q5

Default

100% Would just like to point out, its plainly, the result of Federal Govt trying to control too much. The US has a **** ton of crude oil. I don't doubt the validity of any move forward in tech, but sometimes they really stifle motor companies to the point that even after major chip / part shortages (due to literally a forced Govt Pandemic), smaller companies like Subaru, there's only so much they can do to meet agreed quotas set between them and the Feds. I know there's a lot more to it, I just think the Regulation is out of control.
Russ_G93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:36 AM   #7537
Snow Drift
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:
AR Giulia,Tesla MY
05 08 11 WRX 18 STI 18TM3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Not going to quote it cause it's a lot and I greatly appreciate that effort in response.



Soo, essentially, it's about "feels" and not an actual mechanical thing. I mean, I understand high RPMs being cool. Especially when I watch Indy/F1 races. Never had the privilege of hearing one in person. Just the hate that it doesn't have something that would ultimately be useless on that engine anyway. Seems like someone just trying to find as many things to hate cause they didn't get what they wanted.
A low redline can hurt driving enjoyment. These cars typically need to be rev'd above 3k just for everyday driving. So if you want to floor it, and then the car hits fuel cut 3k RPM later, that's not a lot of room to play with.

My Giulia redlines at 5.5k, and the ZF8 has a slight delay, so I have to shift before redline and with it being so low and the gearing so short, it means a lot of paddle shifting for not much outcome. I have hit fuel cut a few times bc in my mind, I have more time.

My old '02 RSX fuel cut around 7.2k, that was a fun little 2.0 NA. Not actually quick, but it was fun to play around.

Last edited by Snow Drift; 08-10-2022 at 11:45 AM.
Snow Drift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 11:52 AM   #7538
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
2019 Macan 4cyl
1993 Impreza FWD WRX swap

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Well, a viscous coupling differential is mechanical compared to a clutch-pack. The articles does not say mechanical, just Limited Slip Differential. I believe the Civic uses a helical front diff, like the STI.
Did they put a viscous rear back in the WRX? The VA didn't have one.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 12:04 PM   #7539
Snow Drift
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:
AR Giulia,Tesla MY
05 08 11 WRX 18 STI 18TM3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Did they put a viscous rear back in the WRX? The VA didn't have one.
No, VB is open front/rear, with a VC center differential.
Snow Drift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 12:13 PM   #7540
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Justy,

The way you casually dismiss the 'feeling' of Fun as unimportant is exactly why you fit in there. Fun to drive is made up of ENTIRELY feelings. My old 240Z is slower and probably cannot corner half as good as most modern cars, but it is 200% as fun as anything under 100000 dollars.

I am sorry, but 'feels' is the single most important thing to an automotive enthusiast who loves driving. With one statement, you have categorically defined yourself.



When did I say fun is unimportant? You're telling me you wouldn't have ANY fun driving a WRX?


I'm not saying you're gonna have the most fun ever; but, your example is exactly my point. Do you think you could have fun in a 58hp Justy? I had LOADS of fun in mine that I couldn't possibly have in a 500HP, 10K rpm redline STI. Or whatever. Fun is what you make of it. Just hard to see how 400rpms will matter. Again, I have driven it around a track and I just don't see how it matters.



I'm saying it's just as much fun. Just everyone is expecting more and I'm not faulting that after 20 years of it being here. But, it's direct competitors are not soo much more in those same 20 years! The GRC will be probably the only thing that will be. Kuddos to Toyota.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 01:03 PM   #7541
b4wantab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21293
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Oak Park, IL
Vehicle:
05 OB Black Bean
1969 W-30

Default

It is hard to defend what is now an appliance on an enthusiast website.

Maybe the discussion should be how main-stream the appliance has become.

Peace,

Greg
b4wantab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 01:27 PM   #7542
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
RWD Camry
Pull me over red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Not going to quote it cause it's a lot and I greatly appreciate that effort in response.

Soo, essentially, it's about "feels" and not an actual mechanical thing. I mean, I understand high RPMs being cool. Especially when I watch Indy/F1 races. Never had the privilege of hearing one in person. Just the hate that it doesn't have something that would ultimately be useless on that engine anyway. Seems like someone just trying to find as many things to hate cause they didn't get what they wanted.
In a performance or enthusiast application, yes, it's more about feel/driving enjoyment than numbers on a page/screen. If only numbers matter, get an EV and blow the doors off of just about anything on the road.

Lots more below... dear lord don't quote it, you might break NASIOC.

Most manufacturers take a CAFE hit with their fun cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) because if someone enjoys their fun car, they will probably buy their vanilla cars & trucks as well, and recommend the brand to others. Also, when a truck/SUV engine is used in a performance application, it's typically tuned up, rather than detuned like Subaru did with the FA24DIT, yeah they got a little more horsepower, but at the expense of torque.

New WRX is ugly, but that's not the main reason I won't buy one.

I bought an 06 WRX wagon as a family car that was also fun; 3,100lbs, 230HP/235TQ 5mt AWD, rear LSD, 4pot/2pot calipers felt like a good place to start for a daily that I might mod, and mod I did. But since it was my family car I also needed practical; and it had tons of cargo room, a tow rating, roof racks. Once the 5/60 was up, I compared that car to everything on the market at the time to see if I wanted to go to something newer, or start modding, and nothing matched the practicality I needed & fun I wanted, so I started modding, in 2008, 2012, 2014 I looked at the STi hatch, but didn't want to pay the money for an STi to be stuck with another EJ powered car that was heavier & would need all of the mods I had already done and still not be as practical; in 2015 I looked at the VA and realized I couldn't do a sedan at that point, and the FA20DIT, although not an EJ, was...well less than stellar out of the box, and the car had gained ~400lbs or so since 2006, so I kept maintaining & modding right up until I sold in at the end of 2019? I can't remember now... right before covid times really started. I gave the WRX sedan a try again, gave the STi sedan a try too, since I was going to be stuck in a sedan anyways, I decided to try other things; 340i, Charger Scat pack, IS350 AWD & RWD, and wound up in the IS350 RWD F-sport, it was the best overall package, and I trust it more than I'd trust anything Subaru has every put out; I flog it, put gas in it, change the oil once a year, and don't worry about it otherwise.

Worth noting, when I bought it, I paid less for the IS350, including shipping, than I would have for an STi. Note: I had to buy an IS out of state to get RWD, otherwise I had to order one at the dealer, and I'm a notoriously cheap SOB, and they wouldn't knock any money off if I ordered one, finding one out of state was just cheaper.

With regards to "The Ugly": I previously owned a (heavily modified) Fox mustang, not the most attractive car at the time and still not attractive to the non-nostalgic today, certainly not the stiffest chassis or best handling or braking vehicle at the time (if you've driven one, you know how much of an understatement that is), and by todays standards anything that can get to 60 in around 6 seconds will burn a stock one around a track, I bet an Si would demolish it around a track too. I didn't buy it because it was a mustang or because it was cool, I bought it because it was fun to drive and I liked it more than what was on the market at the time (Camaro/Firebird basically). A 225hp/300tq V8 strapped to a 5MT in a ~3,100lb ~100" wheelbase tin can was just fun, and it was cheap to boot; redline was 5,800, rev limiter was 6,250 BTW. Pick a gear, mash the pedal, smoke tires, crab walk through intersections, etc. I put a ton of time into that car waking up the 5.0 & addressing all of it's shortcomings, when I sold it I picked up an 03 Cobra, the blown 4.6 was underrated so the 390/390 was at the wheels not the engine; but that car wasn't as fun; it was way faster, and had higher handling & braking limits than even my fox in it's modified state, but it was 700-800lbs heavier, and felt it. The engine, although putting out way more power, wasn't as happy winding up, or as fun to wind out as my OHV 5.0 was (AFR 165s w/1.6:1 SVO roller rockers, 24lb injectors, ported Holley intake, custom ground cam, 75mm MAF, 65mm TB, Long tubes 1-5/8" primary to 2.5") In that state it would wind happily to 7,250, and consistently put out over 300WHP on the dyno, engine was strapped to a W.C. T5 w/cobra clutch, aluminum driveshaft, Eaton posi with 3:55's. I could keep listing off the other hard parts I put into it, but I had taken the chassis as far as it reasonably could go at the time without dumping stupid cash into it, so I thought I'd try something new, and new just wasn't as good of an experience, so I got rid of new. Mind you I was still also driving my 66 mustang at the time on the weekends, so the fox was my fast toy where the 66 was my nostalgia machine, I also had motorcycles, no kids & a winter beater, so the demand on my mustang was "be fun when I don't want to ride".

So fast forward to todays market and what's available; if I'm stuck in a sedan (which I am, unless I want ground clearance), there are significantly better offerings on the market than the WRX. I know I'd end up in a limited as I don't do cloth, and I want a MT if it's available. Pumpkin Spice Orange and Pull me over Red are the only colors I like, WR blue changed somewhere along the way and I don't like the newer iteration, maybe it was MY08?
At ~38k for a WRX Limited (no options selected) that doesn't have diffs, has a cable actuated shifter, an engine that won't wind past 6,100RPM, small (in comparison) 2pot/1pot brakes with a chassis that is woefully front heavy due to the engine layout, coupled with a 50:50 fixed AWD system, which leads to massive understeer out of the box, or do I get something else? No clue what the GR Corolla will cost, but it has a better & more desirable AWD system, so if AWD were a must I'd start there, but AWD isn't a must for me, I prefer RWD, which opens up a lot of options. If I had a ~40k budget limit: IS300, CT4, Charger R/T, A4, 330i etc. are all similarly priced, but deliver a better experience, most of those also have an AWD offering with more performance/fun in mind than Subarus system (see rear biased). I don't have a 40k budget limit, so I can go higher up the trim list for the other makes, since there is no STi currently, I'm capped at what the limited offers, and it's frankly, not enough for me mechanically, and I consider the HTCVT "SPT" a downgrade and hinderance compared to the not all that good 6-speed. Dampers & seats from the WRX GT would be nice, but Subaru is going to Subaru and insist you get a "performance" CVT to get them, and the GT starts at 43k, which is within spitting distance of significantly better performing and appointed cars.
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 05:04 PM   #7543
Straight6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 419593
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallly 4 View Post
First time ever a Wrx lost a comparison test to a civic si.

CTR will be competing with Porsches and other track specials
"Beyond the test track, there's never a shortage of grip in the WRX. In fact, the car still feels like the homologation Impreza model first issued decades ago so Subaru could compete with it in the World Rally Championship. There was a rawness to the old WRX that made the Subaru a fitting sparring partner for its former nemesis, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, itself an AWD rally car for the streets. Some of that spirit-papered over by years of development-is still alive in the WRX today."

Straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 08:35 PM   #7544
Snow Drift
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:
AR Giulia,Tesla MY
05 08 11 WRX 18 STI 18TM3

Default

This I could live with. SOA Blog, are you listening!? (I know you arenít )

Snow Drift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 08:36 PM   #7545
carsebuco
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 482289
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: DE
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
This I could live with. SOA Blog, are you listening!? (I know you arenít )

Now it's definitely a civic with an STI wing
carsebuco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 09:01 PM   #7546
OldBlu
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 527735
Join Date: Dec 2021
Default

The front and sides can probably be fixed with paint...I don't know about the rear. Nothing about it works for me, painted or black plastic. But I hated the rear of the previous gen too.
OldBlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 10:04 PM   #7547
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default

They look much better in the flesh than in pictures.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 10:38 PM   #7548
dcsti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 77809
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne, FL
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
"Beyond the test track, there's never a shortage of grip in the WRX. In fact, the car still feels like the homologation Impreza model first issued decades ago so Subaru could compete with it in the World Rally Championship. There was a rawness to the old WRX that made the Subaru a fitting sparring partner for its former nemesis, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, itself an AWD rally car for the streets. Some of that spirit-papered over by years of development-is still alive in the WRX today."

I think the Motortrend editors must be smoking something.

Back in 02, when SOA deemed us worthy of the WRX, they at least stuffed a new (to the US) engine (EJ205) under the hood, and the car actually did seem "special". Over the next few years, the US continued to get "special" engines (EJ257/5/3/eieo). With the passage of time, the engine continued to feel "special", albeit with a different connotation.

Twenty years later, SOA stuffed a detuned crossover engine (that we already get) under the hood. I'm not feeling the "homologation special" vibes here. More like "parts bin special" or maybe "short bus special"...

And "rawness" like the 02 era cars? Come on. Motortrend is seeing ghosts.

Still, I'm glad that SOA bothered to continue with importing the WRX at all. I just wish they would have not pulled a Mitsubishi-esque WRXcross rabbit out of their hat...
dcsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2022, 12:30 AM   #7549
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
cool dad II da
MAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carsebuco View Post
Now it's definitely a civic with an STI wing


4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2022, 12:42 AM   #7550
rallly 4
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 268362
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Vehicle:
2006
blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
"Beyond the test track, there's never a shortage of grip in the WRX. In fact, the car still feels like the homologation Impreza model first issued decades ago so Subaru could compete with it in the World Rally Championship. There was a rawness to the old WRX that made the Subaru a fitting sparring partner for its former nemesis, the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, itself an AWD rally car for the streets. Some of that spirit-papered over by years of development-is still alive in the WRX today."

Lol paid marketing. Car lost to a civic si. You coincidentally didnít quote frm that article where they stated it was the slowest WRX ever tested only with a lemon 2018 model being slower.

The guy who wrote that articles never even tested a homologation spec early Wrx or sti. Thereís nothing connected to rallying in the new Wrx. Absolutely zero correlation. The engine isnít even within the requirements. Itís so sad when someone whose owned multiple stis , and other actual homologation cars has to sit here and argue with someone who is at the same level as a 5th grader.
rallly 4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2022 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.