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Old 08-18-2018, 10:19 AM   #701
elirentz
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Drivers provide tons of input. On car and race set up.
Most of the engineering, engine and car design... the engineers carry on in wind tunnels and engine development facilities. In a galaxy far far away from where the drivers are.

Oh so Ferrari went downhill after his first year... downhill from where? from winning it all the couple of seasons before he got there? Lucky for Ferrari Alonso left.... with him all they were able to fight was 2nd place. With Vettel and Kimi all they have been fighting for has been...... ok. Bad argument.

If drivers designed cars they'd have cushioned seats, a/c and fewer buttons on the steering wheel.

BTW I am an engineer. Hydrotechnical engineer. I did my master's thesis at the univ of Delft Netherlands in computational fluid dynamics. The lab where I did my work has a full size wind tunnel and a few of my mates were aerospace engineers. But this didn't about being an engineer or not, I'm being a douche on purpose haha it's just more fun.

Drivers do help set up the cars, provide feedback, etc during the races. Also, engineers look at tons of data and typically, give a lot of feedback to the drivers as well. Remember why pit support got banned a couple of years ago? So of course, the cars are designed with everyone collaborating. Nobody is THAT dense; but Modern Formula 1 cars are designed by aerodynamicists and mechanical engineers (also electrical and chemical (tyres) engineers). Not drivers.
Totally agree with you on all of the above. Except for the being a douche on purpose part

I'm an EE and software guy but I'm a gearhead and working on getting my pilot's license so I appreciate the mechanical and aero development of F1.

I think Alonso is obviously an amazing driver and fast in anything but I also think he lacks one of the thing that separates the greats from the legends, building a team around him and then working well with the engineers to develop a faster car.

I also think his driving style and car setup preference is balanced differently than what many of the other driver's like and his politics make it so he gets his way in development of the car. This leads to a skewed view of him compared to some of his past teammates.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:05 PM   #702
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Totally agree with you on all of the above. Except for the being a douche on purpose part

I'm an EE and software guy but I'm a gearhead and working on getting my pilot's license so I appreciate the mechanical and aero development of F1.

I think Alonso is obviously an amazing driver and fast in anything but I also think he lacks one of the thing that separates the greats from the legends, building a team around him and then working well with the engineers to develop a faster car.

I also think his driving style and car setup preference is balanced differently than what many of the other driver's like and his politics make it so he gets his way in development of the car. This leads to a skewed view of him compared to some of his past teammates.
hahaha
There, you're a pilot.... you have absolutely no say in the planes design. But you can adjust your seat position.

Drivers have input. Suspension adjustments, aero balance, brake bias, fueling and power delivery etc. All of it guided by.... the race engineers. But you put anyone of the current drivers in last year's Mercedes and they'd win the championship. Put anyone in Vettel's Red Bulls and they'd win. It's not ALWAYS the case. Some seasons are closer than others in terms of teams being able to win. But the last 10 or so yrs of F1 has been a dominance story. It's slowly killing F1, specially after the schumcher era. Lots of people were turned off by that.

Working with the engineers to develop a faster car? You mean developing a car that challenges a much faster car to the last race for a championship?

Which of the previous champions has done that? You can count on a single hand, and you'd get left over fingers

Again, the drivers don't design the car or the engine. They hardly develop anything, it's the other way around. The teams attract drivers by proving they can design and develop the cars and the engineers driect the drivers to get the most out of the cars. The drivers have to be good. Some are great...

This is nothing new. It's gone on since forever. They all lie about the equal status and etc but the contracts are extremely confidential. Lewis babbles on the media about he wants equal status. BS. He wants, and he has, a no1 driver contract. He had one against Nico. The same with Vettel, Alonso, Kimi with Massa, and Ricciardo now.

A skewed view of him vs the teammates? So Vettel vs Kimi is a honest view? Lewis vs Bottas?

hahahah sure, keep falling for that one.

From the 1970's:
https://youtu.be/msqJUz3_xTk

You think anything's changed?
Dream on.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:35 PM   #703
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I didn't realize engineering programs had classes on how to be a pretentious douche.
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:22 PM   #704
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I didn't realize engineering programs had classes on how to be a pretentious douche.
They don't.

I learned that all on my own. Putting in the extra hours pays off eh..
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #705
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Gasly seems to be on his way to Redbull.
STR doesn't have any young drivers in the pipline to fill their seats. They contacted former
STR driver Jean-Eric Vern about returning to F1.

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...rmula-one-seat
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:11 PM   #706
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Gasly seems to be on his way to Redbull.
STR doesn't have any young drivers in the pipline to fill their seats. They contacted former
STR driver Jean-Eric Vern about returning to F1.

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...rmula-one-seat

Vergne seems to have had some success since he left F1, but success in other series does not translate well to F1 as a lot of people are finding out.
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Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM   #707
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I would be totally fine with JEV coming back. So many young RBR drivers were chewed up and spit out along the way and it's now coming back to bite them. Their junior talent pool has dried up and they can't just discard drivers at will anymore. In fact, now they're turning back to the ones they've already rejected and are begging them to come back. He's older and a Formula E champion now. I expect he would beat Hartley if that's the pairing, which is such a telling lineup that they have 2 ex-RBR juniors they've had to ask to return.

Red Bull's F1 program is like that really hot girlfriend who treats you like **** but you know you have a knockout on your hands so you stay with her. Unfortunately, she cheats on you and discards you when she's done with you but you'll always take her back.
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Old Yesterday, 12:09 PM   #708
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Gasly seems to be on his way to Redbull.
STR doesn't have any young drivers in the pipline to fill their seats. They contacted former
STR driver Jean-Eric Vern about returning to F1.

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/24...rmula-one-seat
I hope Gasly gets it.

It's still a bit of the same issue with Ferrari and Leclerc... it's still a bit too early for both. But RB has brought this issue upon themselves.

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I would be totally fine with JEV coming back. So many young RBR drivers were chewed up and spit out along the way and it's now coming back to bite them. Their junior talent pool has dried up and they can't just discard drivers at will anymore. In fact, now they're turning back to the ones they've already rejected and are begging them to come back. He's older and a Formula E champion now. I expect he would beat Hartley if that's the pairing, which is such a telling lineup that they have 2 ex-RBR juniors they've had to ask to return.

Red Bull's F1 program is like that really hot girlfriend who treats you like **** but you know you have a knockout on your hands so you stay with her. Unfortunately, she cheats on you and discards you when she's done with you but you'll always take her back.
Yup. Right now, their lead driver driving in their senior team is Max Verstappen. I just said this 2 times aloud and... wow.
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Old Yesterday, 05:14 PM   #709
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Gasly to Red Bull confirmed.
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Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM   #710
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Interested to see how that works out. Max may get a dose of his own medicine.
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Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM   #711
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With Verstappen still just 20, and Gasly only turning 23 in February
Whoa, I didn't realize that Gasly was 3 years older than Max.
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM   #712
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Whoa, I didn't realize that Gasly was 3 years older than Max.
Yep they're just kids. For some reason Max appears older. Gasly has a younger demeanor; I guess it's his cheeriness.

I don't like Max, but I gotta say I'm a fan of the young fellas. If only Max wasn't such a brat. So in this case, I'll definitely be rooting for Pierre.

1) he deserves it (I guess all of them do, but i mean in the sense that he's not a pay driver). 2) he's a super fun driver to watch, but still keeps things under control. 3) He's cool. His "Now we can fight" joke was awesome.
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Old Today, 08:08 AM   #713
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Looks like Perez is staying at Force India, Force Stroll, or what ever the name is next year.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/p...161509/?nrt=54

So where is Ocon going?
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Old Today, 08:49 AM   #714
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I didn't realize engineering programs had classes on how to be a pretentious douche.
The University of Michigan and The University of California at Berkeley definitely do.
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Old Today, 09:20 AM   #715
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Pretty meh on Gasly going to Red Bull.
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