EV Demand Is So Bad Ford Is Building Trucks Instead

[AVANTI R5]

EV Demand Is So Bad Ford Is Building Trucks Instead


Ford announces plans for "multi-energy technology" next generation Super Duty, suggesting electrified heavy-duty trucks are on the way.

The automaker is expanding Super Duty production to Canada.

Ford has invested billions to expand production to the Oakville Assembly Plant, which was previously earmarked for electric vehicle manufacturing.

Ford is making significant changes to its future product lineup. The company announced that it will expand Super Duty production into Canada and added that the next generation of Super Duty trucks will adopt "multi-energy technology," suggesting electrification of some kind. This is good news for Oakville Assembly Plant staff, as Ford was considering shuttering the plant once it realized that the EV-only facility would not have enough demand to operate without a loss.

The automaker says that adding production to another plant will bring "multi-energy technology to the next generation of Super Duty trucks, giving customers more freedom of choice and supporting Ford's electrification plans." While the automaker hasn't shared much, this confirms that the new Super Duty will use hybrid or plug-in hybrid drivetrains.

An Electrified F-450? Yes, It's On The Way

While Stellantis has yet to make an announcement, Ram is expected to introduce a hydrogen-powered 5500 heavy-duty truck using fuel-cell technology instead of a hydrogen combustion engine. A Stellantis official said production is scheduled to kick off this year. It's worth noting neither Stellantis nor GM have made official announcements. Ford already offers a hybrid F-150, pairing a 3.5-liter V6 with a 47-horsepower electric motor. Total outputs are 430 hp and 570 lb-ft of torque, which is respectable.


The EcoBoost may be small for the Super Duty, so the existing V8s may be adapted for electrification or plug-in technology. While we can't say for sure, a fully-electric Super Duty would be impractical. The battery pack required to lug an F-450 around would be vast, likely adding unnecessary weight to the truck. Of course, there's always a chance Ford is also considering hydrogen technology.
"Super Duty is a vital tool for businesses and people around the world and even with our Kentucky Truck Plant and Ohio Assembly Plant running flat out, we can't meet the demand. This move benefits our customers and supercharges our Ford Pro commercial business. At the same time, we look forward to introducing three-row electric utility vehicles, leveraging our experience in three-row utility vehicles and our learnings as America's No. 2 electric vehicle brand to deliver fantastic, profitable vehicles."


- Jim Farley, Ford CEO
Billions Invested To Make This Happen

Blue Oval initially planned to produce passenger electric vehicles, such as battery-powered SUVs, at the Oakville Assembly plant. The automaker will now expand F-Series Super Duty production to the Canadian assembly plant, which means three facilities will build profitable trucks starting next year. At first, Ford estimates the factory will be able to build 100,000 trucks per year.


Heavy-Duty Ford Ranger Could Wear Iconic Super Duty Name

A Ford Ranger Super Duty could be in the works. But what could it be? A larger and more capable Ranger pickup or simply a new trim level?

All in all, the Dearborn-based brand is spending around $3 billion to expand Super Duty production, with $2.3 billion earmarked to "install assembly and integrated stamping operations" at the Oakville facility. According to Ford, this move will secure around 1,800 jobs, which is 400 more than the unspecified three-row electric vehicle would have created. An additional 150 positions will be created at the Windsor Engine Complex to meet demand for additional Super Duty V8 engines.

What About Ford's Electrification Plans?

While Ford was betting big on electrification, this sudden move shows how things have changed. Investing more money in large V8 trucks - and pushing back the production of electric cars - is a sign that Ford is adjusting its plans to align with current demands. The automaker may be second in the EV race, bested only by Tesla, but the reality is that things have been somewhat challenging for Ford.


Ford Figures Out How To Make Hydrogen Power Safer And Longer Lasting

Hydrogen tanks take up a lot of space and can be explosive, but Ford has found a single solution to both problems.

In April, the automaker admitted that it was losing a staggering $130,000 for every electric vehicle it sold. Thankfully, the marque's trucks and hybrids are strong sellers and counter the relatively poor performance of the Model e division. In Q2 2024, Ford sold 199,463 F-Series trucks, compared to 23,957 EVs during the same period. That said, Ford hasn't given up on electric cars and plans to introduce a sub-$30,000 EV to battle Tesla and affordable Chinese alternatives.

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[Genericuser1]

Well they can discount F250's probably $15k and still make money. Not so much on BEV's.

I just got an email from my local BMW Motorrad dealer. They have already had their CE04 Electric scooter's discounted by $4-$5k (these are ones that use one of the i3's battery cell). Now they are saying no reasonable offer refused. Maybe I shoudl stop by tomorrow and offer them $4k.

Gee who would have thought that a large electric scooter with only 80 miles max range (typically 60 something) for $14,000 was a bad idea. Sad part is they are doing it again with the CE02

[samagon]

it's not the 80 mile range, my old bike had a 100ish mile range, but it also only took a gallon of gas to fill, so less than a minute at the pump.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Genericuser1

Well they can discount F250's probably $15k and still make money. Not so much on BEV's.

I just got an email from my local BMW Motorrad dealer. They have already had their CE04 Electric scooter's discounted by $4-$5k (these are ones that use one of the i3's battery cell). Now they are saying no reasonable offer refused. Maybe I shoudl stop by tomorrow and offer them $4k.

Gee who would have thought that a large electric scooter with only 80 miles max range (typically 60 something) for $14,000 was a bad idea. Sad part is they are doing it again with the CE02

wft do you need more than 80 mile range on a scooter like that for? Scooters are city/urban runabouts, not long distance commuters.

It's just too pricey for what it is, imo. Nothing to do with the range, just who in their right mind spends 14k on a bmw scooter?

[quentinberg007]

Originally Posted by dwf137

wft do you need more than 80 mile range on a scooter like that for? Scooters are city/urban runabouts, not long distance commuters.

It's just too pricey for what it is, imo. Nothing to do with the range, just who in their right mind spends 14k on a bmw scooter?

Exactly. I can't make a case for a scooter as an overall cost saver when it costs that much. $5k and the math starts to change. Even then, the yearly cost of insurance and registration typically kills the value proposition. That's a big reason that everyone daily drives the biggest thing they will need. Insurance being per vehicle instead of per driver essentially penalizes me for choosing the right tool for the job versus 1 car that inefficiently does it all.

[Genericuser1]

Originally Posted by dwf137

wft do you need more than 80 mile range on a scooter like that for? Scooters are city/urban runabouts, not long distance commuters.

It's just too pricey for what it is, imo. Nothing to do with the range, just who in their right mind spends 14k on a bmw scooter?

Originally Posted by quentinberg007

Exactly. I can't make a case for a scooter as an overall cost saver when it costs that much. $5k and the math starts to change. Even then, the yearly cost of insurance and registration typically kills the value proposition. That's a big reason that everyone daily drives the biggest thing they will need. Insurance being per vehicle instead of per driver essentially penalizes me for choosing the right tool for the job versus 1 car that inefficiently does it all.

While I agree it's more of a city runabout as most scooters or electrics are. However, at $13k+ is has to be more.

For me specifically I commute on back roads burbs to burbs so add a bigger windscreen to this and it would be a decent commuter for me except that my round trip with no way to charge at work is 63 miles. The 80mile range is max, add in cold weather (it has heated seat and grips) and I'm not sure it will make it.

I use a modded Honda Monkey $4.2k that can hit 65mph and gets 100-140mpg among my other bikes. Justa bit crazy that you can probably get 45% off a brand new "motor"cycle.

To get back to the OP we are seeing significant, across the board EV discounts on any type of EV. Just look at EV9 vs. Telluride.

[Stanley]

Ford can complain all they want about poor demand. They helped create this situation. I was set to buy a Mach E, but they wanted a $15k mark up over sticker so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.
Money talks and y'all know what walks.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Ford can complain all they want about poor demand. They helped create this situation. I was set to buy a Mach E, but they wanted a $15k mark up over sticker so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.
Money talks and y'all know what walks.

just in case you weren't aware, you can go get one for probably $15k off sticker now, they still aren't moving units.

price isn't the issue.

the public that want an EV with current technology, and the limitations that this technology brings to the table already have an EV with current technology.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by samagon

just in case you weren't aware, you can go get one for probably $15k off sticker now, they still aren't moving units.

price isn't the issue.

It was the deciding factor in my purchase decision. Ford wanted $15k over, GM wanted $10k over.
My brother in law just got a lightning for more about $15k off. Price was his determining factor as well. My point is they shot themselves in the foot upon launch, when they would have been better off gaining market share. Penny wise and pound foolish and they have their dealer network to blame, at least in part.
I probably won't buy another car for 6-7 years at least.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by Stanley

It was the deciding factor in my purchase decision. Ford wanted $15k over, GM wanted $10k over.
My brother in law just got a lightning for more about $15k off. Price was his determining factor as well. My point is they shot themselves in the foot upon launch, when they would have been better off gaining market share. Penny wise and pound foolish and they have their dealer network to blame, at least in part.
I probably won't buy another car for 6-7 years at least.

it's been the cases for more than a decade, if you want a highly desired car at launch, you pay extra for that.

if you HAD to buy a new vehicle at that exact moment, then sure, but many people were able to wait it out.

the fact still remains, EV sales are slumping across the board. it's not specific to Ford, and it's not because dealers charged a premium for people to be the first to buy a Mach E.

dealers also marked up the new land cruiser, you won't see that cause sales to slump in a year.

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by Stanley

so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.

Where would one find one of these rolling MAGA hats?

Asking for a friend.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by samagon

if you want a highly desired car at launch, you pay extra for that.

if you HAD to buy a new vehicle at that exact moment, then sure, but many people were able to wait it out.

I never started going back to the office, so took almost two years before buying, and clearly neither the Mach E nor Bolt EUV were such highly desirable cars. I actually laughed in the dealers face when they told me there was a mark up. The car was a decent appliance but was even uglier than my old Subaru. They called me three weeks later saying they would drop the up charge and I laughed at them again.

I'm actually glad I went with a Tesla for the charging network, even though I would have preferred to not support the company.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by samagon

it's been the cases for more than a decade, if you want a highly desired car at launch, you pay extra for that.

if you HAD to buy a new vehicle at that exact moment, then sure, but many people were able to wait it out.

the fact still remains, EV sales are slumping across the board. it's not specific to Ford, and it's not because dealers charged a premium for people to be the first to buy a Mach E.

dealers also marked up the new land cruiser, you won't see that cause sales to slump in a year.

I am praying this is the case.... I will never pay a visible ADM. I think dealers have marked up cars 30% from the manufacturer already in the past 4 years, so they are already sticking it to us.

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Where would one find one of these rolling MAGA hats?

Asking for a friend.

I will take one too..

Also,

While Stellantis has yet to make an announcement, Ram is expected to introduce a hydrogen-powered 5500 heavy-duty truck using fuel-cell technology instead of a hydrogen combustion engine. A Stellantis official said production is scheduled to kick off this year. It's worth noting neither Stellantis nor GM have made official announcements. Ford already offers a hybrid F-150, pairing a 3.5-liter V6 with a 47-horsepower electric motor. Total outputs are 430 hp and 570 lb-ft of torque, which is respectable.


What kind of messed up crazy world do we live in where this is just respectable. My gosh we are spoiled for choice and for performance. IN an F150 how is 570 ft lbs of torque just respectable.

My ram has over 100 less, and its pulls like a train.

[AVANTI R5]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Ford can complain all they want about poor demand. They helped create this situation. I was set to buy a Mach E, but they wanted a $15k mark up over sticker so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.
Money talks and y'all know what walks.

EV owners....lol I couldn't resist

[samagon]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

I am praying this is the case.... I will never pay a visible ADM. I think dealers have marked up cars 30% from the manufacturer already in the past 4 years, so they are already sticking it to us.

The dealer I just went to for my 15k lof had 3 I could see on the lot. Toyota is going to make/sell tons of the land cruiser and gx550.

Just looking at the inventory tool on Toyota, even the first edition, that's the limited edition, has the majority listed at MSRP, well, MSRP plus whatever gulf states Toyota puts on at the port.

So you could probably negotiate a few off the MSRP even today.

[SCRAPPYDO]

My local dealers are putting 5-8k of dealer add on's. The usual suspects

Nitrogen
paint protection
Fabric protection
Lojack
Tint

some how that equals 8000 dollars

[samagon]

if we end up wanting the land cruiser, we'll probably end up going to a state that isn't part of Gulf States Toyota and having it shipped, or I'll fly out and drive it home. they are ridiculous with their port installed options that you can't get out of.

on the GR Corolla I was stuck with about $500 in PIO, but on most of these LC they are doing about $4000 in PIO. that's outrageous and I'll have nothing to do with it. and maybe that will calm down in a year or so?

[dwf137]

Everything I've seen is that the EV sales rate is still strong, what's slowing down is the rate of growth... They're still selling, and sales are increasing year over year, but the rate at which they're increasing is falling...

Manufacturers are seeing a loss in sales because there's a lot more players in the market now. When I bought my leaf, there wasn't much on the market. It was basically like Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf. Now there's so many more options so manufacturers are seeing consumers spread out.

[VarmintCong]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Ford can complain all they want about poor demand. They helped create this situation. I was set to buy a Mach E, but they wanted a $15k mark up over sticker so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.
Money talks and y'all know what walks.

Ford's problems are always caused by Ford.

i'm in the market next year for a CUV, the Escape is an excellent vehicle, and Ford is killing it off to sell more trucks. Ford can suck it.

And I say this as a Ford owner (2023 Focus ST-Line).

[SCRAPPYDO]

I have to agree with this ^^^^^
Ford makes some knee jerk decisions. Some work and some, like the Lightning, don't.

I think the Ram REV will be interesting to watch. ICE as an on board generator only. I wont risk a prediction on its success, as I have been wrong too many times. So many forces outside of customer demand influences car sales. I wont pretend to know I understand them all.

[SubaDuba420]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

....
Ford makes some knee jerk decisions. Some work and some, like the Lightning, don't.....

Ford thinks bigger is not always better
-When it comes to EVs, bigger is not always better, according to Ford's CEO.
-Jim Farley told investors Ford needs to pivot from giant trucks to smaller, more affordable EVs.
-The Detroit automaker is betting on cheaper models as it tries to catch up with Tesla.
https://autos.yahoo.com/ford-thinks-...RpZAMEc2VjA3Nj

Ford is backing away from giant electric trucks and betting on smaller EVs to become a more dominant player in this market and catch up with the likes of Tesla and China's EV players.

CEO Jim Farley told investors in an earnings call on Wednesday that when it comes to EVs, bigger is not always better - and said that the company's future would depend on its ability to build smaller, cheaper electric vehicles.

"We believe smaller, more affordable vehicles are the way to go for EV in volume," said Farley.

The auto executive, who has previously said Americans need to shake their addiction to "monster vehicles," explained that electric vehicles operated under a completely different set of rules from Ford's traditional business selling gas guzzlers.

"In ICE [Internal Combustion Engine], a business we've been in for 120 years, the bigger the vehicle, the higher the margin," Farley said.

"But it's exactly the opposite for EVs. The larger the vehicle, the bigger the battery, the more pressure on margin because customers will not pay a premium for those larger batteries," he added.

Farley spoke after the Detroit automaker posted disappointing Q2 earnings, with shares falling by as much as 12% after market close.

The company continues to lose money on its electric vehicle business amid an industry-wide slowdown in demand for EVs. This area of the business lost $1.14 billion from April through June.

Farley is betting that a new EV platform built on smaller, more affordable vehicles will help change that, and propel the company ahead of Tesla and its Chinese rivals.

Ford has quietly created a secretive "skunkworks" team, reportedly based in California, to build this new platform. The first vehicles are expected to enter production in the next two and a half years.

Currently, Ford's flagship EV is the F-150 Lightning pickup, a Tesla Cybertruck rival that weighs between 6,000 and 6,900 pounds.

Farley told investors that larger EVs would remain "part of the picture" for the company, but that Ford would have to be "really careful" about when and how it releases them.

Farley has been outspoken that the EV industry needs to move away from hulking pickups if it is going to be successful, however.

Speaking at the Aspen Ideas Festival in June, Farley said that electric versions of these vehicles are too heavy to ever be truly affordable.

"We have to start to get back in love with smaller vehicles. It's super important for our society and for EV adoption," Farley said.

"We are just in love with these monster vehicles, and I love them, too, but it's a major issue with weight," he added.

Ford declined to comment further when contacted by Business Insider.

[SCRAPPYDO]

car prices are absolutely stupid now. They are just unrealistic. Affordable vehicle (like the maverick) struck a chord. People are hurting this inflationary economy. INtroduce a new cheap affordable car and people will need.

[VarmintCong]

FU Ford. You stopped making all the smaller affordable vehicles cause you make less on them. Don’t blame us.

[Brahmzy]

Some say leases are a good bit of why the car prices are stupid high, and getting worse. People lease because they can't afford to buy. Then this enables the car manus to price the cars higher..so on and so forth.