*****

Well they can discount F250's probably $15k and still make money. Not so much on BEV's.

I just got an email from my local BMW Motorrad dealer. They have already had their CE04 Electric scooter's discounted by $4-$5k (these are ones that use one of the i3's battery cell). Now they are saying no reasonable offer refused. Maybe I shoudl stop by tomorrow and offer them $4k.

Gee who would have thought that a large electric scooter with only 80 miles max range (typically 60 something) for $14,000 was a bad idea. Sad part is they are doing it again with the CE02

it's not the 80 mile range, my old bike had a 100ish mile range, but it also only took a gallon of gas to fill, so less than a minute at the pump.

wft do you need more than 80 mile range on a scooter like that for? Scooters are city/urban runabouts, not long distance commuters.

It's just too pricey for what it is, imo. Nothing to do with the range, just who in their right mind spends 14k on a bmw scooter?

Exactly. I can't make a case for a scooter as an overall cost saver when it costs that much. $5k and the math starts to change. Even then, the yearly cost of insurance and registration typically kills the value proposition. That's a big reason that everyone daily drives the biggest thing they will need. Insurance being per vehicle instead of per driver essentially penalizes me for choosing the right tool for the job versus 1 car that inefficiently does it all.

While I agree it's more of a city runabout as most scooters or electrics are. However, at $13k+ is has to be more.

For me specifically I commute on back roads burbs to burbs so add a bigger windscreen to this and it would be a decent commuter for me except that my round trip with no way to charge at work is 63 miles. The 80mile range is max, add in cold weather (it has heated seat and grips) and I'm not sure it will make it.

I use a modded Honda Monkey $4.2k that can hit 65mph and gets 100-140mpg among my other bikes. Justa bit crazy that you can probably get 45% off a brand new "motor"cycle.

To get back to the OP we are seeing significant, across the board EV discounts on any type of EV. Just look at EV9 vs. Telluride.

Ford can complain all they want about poor demand. They helped create this situation. I was set to buy a Mach E, but they wanted a $15k mark up over sticker so I bought a rolling MAGA hat instead.
Money talks and y'all know what walks.

just in case you weren't aware, you can go get one for probably $15k off sticker now, they still aren't moving units.

price isn't the issue.

the public that want an EV with current technology, and the limitations that this technology brings to the table already have an EV with current technology.

It was the deciding factor in my purchase decision. Ford wanted $15k over, GM wanted $10k over.
My brother in law just got a lightning for more about $15k off. Price was his determining factor as well. My point is they shot themselves in the foot upon launch, when they would have been better off gaining market share. Penny wise and pound foolish and they have their dealer network to blame, at least in part.
I probably won't buy another car for 6-7 years at least.

it's been the cases for more than a decade, if you want a highly desired car at launch, you pay extra for that.

if you HAD to buy a new vehicle at that exact moment, then sure, but many people were able to wait it out.

the fact still remains, EV sales are slumping across the board. it's not specific to Ford, and it's not because dealers charged a premium for people to be the first to buy a Mach E.

dealers also marked up the new land cruiser, you won't see that cause sales to slump in a year.

Where would one find one of these rolling MAGA hats?

Asking for a friend.

I never started going back to the office, so took almost two years before buying, and clearly neither the Mach E nor Bolt EUV were such highly desirable cars. I actually laughed in the dealers face when they told me there was a mark up. The car was a decent appliance but was even uglier than my old Subaru. They called me three weeks later saying they would drop the up charge and I laughed at them again.

I'm actually glad I went with a Tesla for the charging network, even though I would have preferred to not support the company.

I am praying this is the case.... I will never pay a visible ADM. I think dealers have marked up cars 30% from the manufacturer already in the past 4 years, so they are already sticking it to us.

I will take one too..

Also,

While Stellantis has yet to make an announcement, Ram is expected to introduce a hydrogen-powered 5500 heavy-duty truck using fuel-cell technology instead of a hydrogen combustion engine. A Stellantis official said production is scheduled to kick off this year. It's worth noting neither Stellantis nor GM have made official announcements. Ford already offers a hybrid F-150, pairing a 3.5-liter V6 with a 47-horsepower electric motor. Total outputs are 430 hp and 570 lb-ft of torque, which is respectable.


What kind of messed up crazy world do we live in where this is just respectable. My gosh we are spoiled for choice and for performance. IN an F150 how is 570 ft lbs of torque just respectable.

My ram has over 100 less, and its pulls like a train.

EV owners....lol I couldn't resist

The dealer I just went to for my 15k lof had 3 I could see on the lot. Toyota is going to make/sell tons of the land cruiser and gx550.

Just looking at the inventory tool on Toyota, even the first edition, that's the limited edition, has the majority listed at MSRP, well, MSRP plus whatever gulf states Toyota puts on at the port.

So you could probably negotiate a few off the MSRP even today.

My local dealers are putting 5-8k of dealer add on's. The usual suspects

Nitrogen
paint protection
Fabric protection
Lojack
Tint

some how that equals 8000 dollars

if we end up wanting the land cruiser, we'll probably end up going to a state that isn't part of Gulf States Toyota and having it shipped, or I'll fly out and drive it home. they are ridiculous with their port installed options that you can't get out of.

on the GR Corolla I was stuck with about $500 in PIO, but on most of these LC they are doing about $4000 in PIO. that's outrageous and I'll have nothing to do with it. and maybe that will calm down in a year or so?

Everything I've seen is that the EV sales rate is still strong, what's slowing down is the rate of growth... They're still selling, and sales are increasing year over year, but the rate at which they're increasing is falling...

Manufacturers are seeing a loss in sales because there's a lot more players in the market now. When I bought my leaf, there wasn't much on the market. It was basically like Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf. Now there's so many more options so manufacturers are seeing consumers spread out.

Ford's problems are always caused by Ford.

i'm in the market next year for a CUV, the Escape is an excellent vehicle, and Ford is killing it off to sell more trucks. Ford can suck it.

And I say this as a Ford owner (2023 Focus ST-Line).

I have to agree with this ^^^^^
Ford makes some knee jerk decisions. Some work and some, like the Lightning, don't.

I think the Ram REV will be interesting to watch. ICE as an on board generator only. I wont risk a prediction on its success, as I have been wrong too many times. So many forces outside of customer demand influences car sales. I wont pretend to know I understand them all.

Ford thinks bigger is not always better
-When it comes to EVs, bigger is not always better, according to Ford's CEO.
-Jim Farley told investors Ford needs to pivot from giant trucks to smaller, more affordable EVs.
-The Detroit automaker is betting on cheaper models as it tries to catch up with Tesla.
https://autos.yahoo.com/ford-thinks-...RpZAMEc2VjA3Nj

car prices are absolutely stupid now. They are just unrealistic. Affordable vehicle (like the maverick) struck a chord. People are hurting this inflationary economy. INtroduce a new cheap affordable car and people will need.

FU Ford. You stopped making all the smaller affordable vehicles cause you make less on them. Don’t blame us.

Some say leases are a good bit of why the car prices are stupid high, and getting worse. People lease because they can***8217;t afford to buy. Then this enables the car manus to price the cars higher..so on and so forth.