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Old 01-20-2021, 12:57 PM   #476
subyski
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The one thing about the current BRZ that for some reason never looked right to me, is looking at the rear straight on. In stock form, the rear wheels looks too far tucked in and the rear fenders look too wide. It doesn't have that problem once wider/lower offset wheels are on the car. I don't get that sense with the new BRZ but I will wait to see it in person. I do like the current version's simple design.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:03 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post

Not so much


I just figured out what that reminds me of!
I think part of it is this photo's perspective. I don't know if it is the lense. It doesn't have a natural look. Maybe the way the light is hitting it that amplifies the rear fender.
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Old 01-20-2021, 03:10 PM   #478
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Speaking of Toyota 86 front bumper.

https://www.motor1.com/news/467411/t...ign-trademark/
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:27 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Speaking of Toyota 86 front bumper.

https://www.motor1.com/news/467411/t...ign-trademark/
Hard to tell, but it looks better. Mayor the PP car will look good? That different front end, a slightly lowered suspension, big brakes/rims, and some additional body tweaks might fix whatever is weird about the base BRZ.
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Old 01-20-2021, 04:31 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I think part of it is this photo's perspective. I don't know if it is the lense. It doesn't have a natural look. Maybe the way the light is hitting it that amplifies the rear fender.
I think itís also how under the rear spoiler is so dark. It makes it look weirdly undercut like the Eclipse in that view. It looks good otherwise though.

I think all need to see the brz in person in a more sporty trim before we decide how it looks. The old car just looked so good so itís a high bar for the new one.
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:04 AM   #481
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Question Automatic versus CVT?

If Subaru has an automatic transmission they can use with the BRZ, why don't we see that used on more Subaru vehicles?

Is it just down to cost and reported mpg?
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:38 AM   #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanstevenson View Post
If Subaru has an automatic transmission they can use with the BRZ, why don't we see that used on more Subaru vehicles?

Is it just down to cost and reported mpg?
Because the auto in the BRZ is not a Subaru transmission, it's a Toyota transmission; just like the manual is a Toyota transmission not a Subaru transmission.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:08 AM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Oh I think you're right about the plate mount. I think I tossed mine after I got my BRZ.

JP, I pretty much agree about the 2022 BRZ. It's like 80% cooked. The fender flares look incomplete and the front bumper doesn't look as though it's reach its final form. The wheels are super meh concerning design. It's sad seeing the new model and immediately deciding to wait for the mid-cycle refresh.

I'd take either the 2013 or 2017 BRZ. I enjoy both designs. 2013 grew on me rather quick and 2017 took cues from the STI Concept that I fell in love with.
in 2008 I traded in a 2004 wagon for a sti partly because I got it for like 29 and 0% thanks to the economy, but also because I really did (and still do) like the design.

then I ended up in a 2015, again, the looks got me (I guess I was one of the few that approved). well, looks, and twin scroll, direct injection, plus all the tech updates inside.

I look at my 2018 brz and look at this thing and there's no hint of that itch, in fact, I feel even better about my purchase.
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Old 01-21-2021, 11:03 AM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanstevenson View Post
If Subaru has an automatic transmission they can use with the BRZ, why don't we see that used on more Subaru vehicles?

Is it just down to cost and reported mpg?
It's also RWD only. It's not configured for the front half shafts for AWD.
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Old 01-21-2021, 11:37 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
It's also RWD only. It's not configured for the front half shafts for AWD.
Beyond that, all longitudinal Aisin/Toyota AAXXX RWD/AWD capable transmissions are asymmetrical AWD; so although Subaru would get better engine placement & weight distribution (thus improving handling), as well as increased reliability and torque capacity, they would have to sacrifice precious marketing buzzwords.
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Old 01-21-2021, 12:49 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Because the auto in the BRZ is not a Subaru transmission, it's a Toyota transmission; just like the manual is a Toyota transmission not a Subaru transmission.
Ah, I didn't know they were Toyota parts. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
It's also RWD only. It's not configured for the front half shafts for AWD.
Doh! I didn't even think about the AWD ramifications. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Old 01-21-2021, 02:48 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Beyond that, all longitudinal Aisin/Toyota AAXXX RWD/AWD capable transmissions are asymmetrical AWD; so although Subaru would get better engine placement & weight distribution (thus improving handling), as well as increased reliability and torque capacity, they would have to sacrifice precious marketing buzzwords.
How dare you go against one of the most sacred Subaru tenet? Heresy I say !
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Old 01-21-2021, 03:14 PM   #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Beyond that, all longitudinal Aisin/Toyota AAXXX RWD/AWD capable transmissions are asymmetrical AWD; so although Subaru would get better engine placement & weight distribution (thus improving handling), as well as increased reliability and torque capacity, they would have to sacrifice precious marketing buzzwords.
Well of course it won't make Subaru a Subaru.
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Old 01-21-2021, 04:05 PM   #489
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Maybe it's me but I really like the rear fender flares of the new car. Much more curvaceous than the outgoing model. It's not perfect but nothing is these days and all it had to do is look fresher than the current generation without looking worse and they managed to do that.
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:45 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Beyond that, all longitudinal Aisin/Toyota AAXXX RWD/AWD capable transmissions are asymmetrical AWD; so although Subaru would get better engine placement & weight distribution (thus improving handling), as well as increased reliability and torque capacity, they would have to sacrifice precious marketing buzzwords.

I was at a Subaru auto show booth sometime and they had small models to compare different AWD systems. The style that BMW uses (transfer case, front prop shaft, diff outside the transmission case) was shown. They put the entire I6 engine in front of the front diff so the axles were in the same place as a Subaru transmission. It looked ridiculous, was completely misleading, and I had a good laugh.
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Old 01-22-2021, 02:55 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I was at a Subaru auto show booth sometime and they had small models to compare different AWD systems. The style that BMW uses (transfer case, front prop shaft, diff outside the transmission case) was shown. They put the entire I6 engine in front of the front diff so the axles were in the same place as a Subaru transmission. It looked ridiculous, was completely misleading, and I had a good laugh.

Those were just a generalized look of systems out there. A simple way of showing the differences. Not just about the AWD; but, also CoG. They had them in every dealership for years. If you were "mislead" by them, that's on you.
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Old 01-22-2021, 05:54 PM   #492
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If you were "mislead" by them, that's on you.
"If you were misled by an infographic inaccurately representing something because you're a laymen and chose to take it at face value, that's on you"

K.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:03 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post

Those were just a generalized look of systems out there. A simple way of showing the differences. Not just about the AWD; but, also CoG. They had them in every dealership for years. If you were "mislead" by them, that's on you.

I clearly recognized that they were BS. COG (in the x-y plane) is where they were particularly misleading. It was basically a model version of this.



No one actually builds their RWD based vehicles like that. Long engine doesnít matter because the axle position is independent of the engine position in the BMW style setup.

Part of the reason the BRZ/86 handle so well is because the engine is mounted further back relative to the front axles than AWD Subarus. It gets rid of that Ďdog food bag in the front of a shopping cartí effect.

Last edited by quentinberg007; 01-23-2021 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:12 AM   #494
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The best balance is putting 2 tons behind the bell housing. 3 tons if you're really doing it right.
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Old 01-23-2021, 12:51 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I clearly recognized that they were BS. COG (in the x-y plane) is where they were particularly misleading. It was basically a model version of this.



No one actually builds their RWD based vehicles like that. Long engine doesnít matter because the axle position is independent of the engine position in the BMW style setup.

Part of the reason the BRZ/86 handle so well is because the engine is mounted further back relative to the front axles than AWD Subarus. It gets rid of that Ďdog food bag in the front of a shopping cartí effect.

And Subaru doesn't build theirs just like the model. It's just a generalized representation. Not every manufacturer does things the same. They didn't make a model for mid or rear engine either. I've been trying to look at BMW. Yeah, if they tried to make a model of the BMW, then they wouldn't easily see the shorter driver side shaft.
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Old 01-23-2021, 01:18 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
And Subaru doesn't build theirs just like the model. It's just a generalized representation. Not every manufacturer does things the same. They didn't make a model for mid or rear engine either. I've been trying to look at BMW. Yeah, if they tried to make a model of the BMW, then they wouldn't easily see the shorter driver side shaft.
Itís total bull**** and Iím not sure why youíre defending it besides that your overly emotionally invested in Subaru. There has never been a car produced anything similarly to that awd I6 picture and that figure is clearly designed to mislead Subaruís typically low information buyers.
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Old 01-23-2021, 01:46 PM   #497
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I'm not very well versed in engine and transmission layouts, but for the BMW example with the long engine, wouldn't it still be better if the engine were farther back? I'm assuming the notation of it being a long engine despite being centered on the axle is to signify that the CoG isn't as good as it could be if the engine were either shorter or farther back.
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Old 01-23-2021, 02:06 PM   #498
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In the grand scheme of things, why aren't Subarus the best handling vehicles on the road? You have to look at the car as a whole (total weight, weight distribution, suspension tuning and setup, etc.). Even bigger these days are the electronic systems on how they mitigate/control the vehicle. In basic principle of layout, simplicity, and theoretical torque distribution, the Subaru layout should be better, but its not necessarily true once you apply the whole vehicle.
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Old 01-23-2021, 09:44 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Itís total bull**** and Iím not sure why youíre defending it besides that your overly emotionally invested in Subaru. There has never been a car produced anything similarly to that awd I6 picture and that figure is clearly designed to mislead Subaruís typically low information buyers.

You seem to like to make absolutes just to attack. "Never" an I-6 AWD? What about the 2002-2009 Trailblazer?



"Subaru's typically low information buyer"? That's funny.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
In the grand scheme of things, why aren't Subarus the best handling vehicles on the road? You have to look at the car as a whole (total weight, weight distribution, suspension tuning and setup, etc.). Even bigger these days are the electronic systems on how they mitigate/control the vehicle. In basic principle of layout, simplicity, and theoretical torque distribution, the Subaru layout should be better, but its not necessarily true once you apply the whole vehicle.



Go look at Subaru's roll over tests. Before and after VDC.
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Old 01-24-2021, 11:49 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
You seem to like to make absolutes just to attack. "Never" an I-6 AWD? What about the 2002-2009 Trailblazer?

I don't think the Trailblazer has nearly that much engine in front of the axle centerline. Some Audi's may have been close, though.
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