Toyota GR Corolla hot hatch trademarked

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by Pre

Our car market is so much larger and these f’ers get it.

3 door hatch, check. Front and rear diffs, check. Light weight, check. 6SPD MT, check. Drive modes, 60/40, 50/50, and 30/70, check. Turbo, check. F U Toyo USA. F YOU! Never buying another Toyota product.

And not a single F was given by Toyota this day.

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[littledrummerboy]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

Just looked at Toyota's website - the sedan has a longer wheelbase than the hatch. 106.3 vs 103.9, so there is your rear legroom, all exterior dimensions are different, I guess they are keeping them as different as before.

I had ASSumed that when they moved the sedan to the TNGA they would be the same car with different body configurations, which clearly isn't the case.

Yeah I assumed that as well. It’s confusing.

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

- and, they're taking pre-orders for the GR4, prices start at 35.5K Euros including 20% VAT; that's 29.5K Euros before tax. Not bad at all.

That’s not bad, but the thing with pricing is that’s a little uncertain what it would cost in NA. Every country has different tariffs/overhead based on where it’s produced. For example, up here in Canada, we’re technically paying an MSRP much less for the same imported Subaru than in the US if we account for conversion.

I have a feeling with the GR being imported, it would cost more in the US than that pre-tax 29.5k euro (31.8k USD converted).

Originally Posted by Pre

Our car market is so much larger and these f’ers get it.

The car buying market may be huge in North America, but the sub-compact hatch market isn’t. Especially not around 32k USD. Europe loves small hatches. The same can’t be said here... even if it checks a lot of boxes for me too.

[hi5.0]

I'm sure the questions surrounding the TNGA Yaris and Corolla regarding exterior and interior dimensions could be cleared up by considering Toyota is doing what a lot of other manufacturers do with various cars in their lineups - using a scalable platform as the underpinning for different models. Adjust (size) to suit the intended application(s) = save R&D and manufacturing $$$.
So the NA market GR Corolla hot hatch gets the same engine/drivetrain combination as the Yaris GR-4, but with the stated power increase to kinda sorta offset the weight gain... then watch as Toyota offers that upgrade for the Yaris GR-4 to the rest of the world - NA market just can't win.

[Pre]

Nah, they'll throw it into a CUV just to add insult to injury.

[kayen]

Originally Posted by Pre

Nah, they'll throw it into a CUV just to add insult to injury.

I would say whatever Toyota USA has in store for us. If it includes the Yaris GR drivetrain in anything but a Yaris shell, than it is immediately going to fail. I don't care if they turn it up some more. It just means we have a much bigger vehicle and a smaller engine to deal with that extra weight. Unless Toyota can develop and implement their own type of "free valve" technology that Koenigsegg developed for their Gemera 2.0 cylinder turbo and able to make 600hp. It's never going to be good enough in a bigger chassis. (Not saying it needs 600hp, just needs the technology to allow it to make more power and more efficiently.)

Just saying a 1.6L 3 Cylinder Turbo is not a great choice for a corolla sized vehicle.

[VarmintCong]

Originally Posted by kayen

I would say whatever Toyota USA has in store for us. If it includes the Yaris GR drivetrain in anything but a Yaris shell, than it is immediately going to fail. I don't care if they turn it up some more. It just means we have a much bigger vehicle and a smaller engine to deal with that extra weight. Unless Toyota can develop and implement their own type of "free valve" technology that Koenigsegg developed for their Gemera 2.0 cylinder turbo and able to make 600hp. It's never going to be good enough in a bigger chassis. (Not saying it needs 600hp, just needs the technology to allow it to make more power and more efficiently.)

Just saying a 1.6L 3 Cylinder Turbo is not a great choice for a corolla sized vehicle.

I don't know why the Corolla hatch is 200 lbs heavier than the Civic hatch, despite less trunk space and much less rear legroom.

If it's 2023 maybe that's a next gen model, and they can bring it more in line with the competition.

If not, then a 3400 lb 3 cylinder hot hatch will fail miserably. I think they know that.

[delongedoug]

People want the GR4 because it's a real performance car from the ground up. It exists solely for FIA homologation and the extensive changes made to the Yaris in order to race it in the WRC.

And anyone thinking the Corolla will sell is kidding themselves. "Americans don't like small hatchbacks." Ok, agreed. By that same token, we can also agree that they don't buy 1.6l 3cyl engines in performance cars, either. It's enticing in a small 2 door homologation special. Plopping it into a Corolla to save money is going to be a sales failure.

Maybe neither car would be a good seller. The only chance this has is there is very little competition in the AWD manual hatch segment. Still, it feels like buying a Ralliart instead of an Evo.

[kayen]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

People want the GR4 because it's a real performance car from the ground up. It exists solely for FIA homologation and the extensive changes made to the Yaris in order to race it in the WRC.

And anyone thinking the Corolla will sell is kidding themselves. "Americans don't like small hatchbacks." Ok, agreed. By that same token, we can also agree that they don't buy 1.6l 3cyl engines in performance cars, either. It's enticing in a small 2 door homologation special. Plopping it into a Corolla to save money is going to be a sales failure.

Maybe neither car would be a good seller. The only chance this has is there is very little competition in the AWD manual hatch segment. Still, it feels like buying a Ralliart instead of an Evo.

One could really say this is how Akio Toyoda justified the Yaris GR project to be built. We can use the same drivetrain in all of our cars and we make up that money and we look sporty doing it...

[Pre]

Originally Posted by kayen

I would say whatever Toyota USA has in store for us. If it includes the Yaris GR drivetrain in anything but a Yaris shell, than it is immediately going to fail. I don't care if they turn it up some more. It just means we have a much bigger vehicle and a smaller engine to deal with that extra weight. Unless Toyota can develop and implement their own type of "free valve" technology that Koenigsegg developed for their Gemera 2.0 cylinder turbo and able to make 600hp. It's never going to be good enough in a bigger chassis. (Not saying it needs 600hp, just needs the technology to allow it to make more power and more efficiently.)

Just saying a 1.6L 3 Cylinder Turbo is not a great choice for a corolla sized vehicle.

Yup. What they should have done is market the GR-4 as a STI competitor. Perhaps their Subaru partnership stopped it from coming here and nobody wants to say. It would be nice to have some competition in the class and a 2800 lb car competing in the class would sell, I don't give a f what the peanut gallery here says, because they are never going to make this car in some high volume scenario anyway.

You then have to ask yourself, is the drivetrain in the GR-4 built for a car that weighs 600 lbs more. Then, if sticking the same powertrain in the Corolla, it will not be competitive. And then if you stick a different power plant (4 cylinder turbo) in it to compensate, how much more weight then? And did the 4 cylinder get designed by Gazoo?

It's just stupid all the way around. You made the product, already spent the money, just give it to your market and your largest market. Reinventing the wheel for nothing. Toyo should be looking at it like there is no light weight 3 door rally inspired car available, so they'd have the market 100%. Instead of wanting to family everything. Nobody else makes a homologation rally car either. F, go sign Ken Block up so you can market the thing. The dumbasses in the US seem to have something mass marketed to them so they know it exists.

Pretty soon all we are gonna have is expensive performance cars, status mobiles. And no manuals. Man i'm half ready to go hunt down a RS4 and have a V8, manual, and AWD. 13 year old car but f it. Even Subaru has had 10 years to put a new engine into the STi and they no longer have EVO competition. Or can't beat them join em deal and just go buy a high powered RWD car from Chevy and Ford and be done with it.

Mind blowing to me we can't have a couple of performance cars on the market, specifically AWD variants, that aren't doubling as family mobiles.

[dwf137]

Americans don't like hatches... It's all bull****.

Maybe the % of Americans that like hatches is smaller than other countries, but the sheer numbers likely exceed entire markets in europe.

It's about safety and emissions testing. If we had a worldwide universal safety and emissions target, we would likely have all of these things available. Unfortunately, we have stupid anti-global policies.

[hi5.0]

Americans do like hatches - just not on small cars. Needs to be on bigger and truckish-looking vehicles and then hatch = OK. Also, in America - "safety" means ****ing up the other vehicle more in a crash vs having the minimum skill set and regard for other motorists to drive without crashing in the first place. Hence the rise of the larger SUV/CUV and the safety arms race resulting in heavier more complex cars all around. So Toyota USA sporty car nazi says, "No light(er) weight, manual, turbo, AWD WRC homologated hatchback for you!"

[SubaDuba420]

Originally Posted by Pre

It's just stupid all the way around. You made the product, already spent the money, just give it to your market and your largest market.

This is the part that boggles my mind I understand there are "costs" involved with bringing it here, but you have the product, you need to sell a specific amount, does the cost really outweigh the "potential" benefit of bringing it to your largest market? Not only the direct sales but possible interest brought to the Toyota brand? Even if the numbers are small overall they would be car "enthusiasts" who currently have ZERO interest in the Toyota brand.

Worst case scenario the Yaris GR is a sales failure in the US for 1 year, they can always decide to eliminate it quickly, how much worse than the 3,400 GT86s they sold could it be

It wouldn't preclude them from bringing the Corolla GR here.....or a RAV4 GR, CHR GR, Prius GR, Tacoma GR.....

[Pre]

Originally Posted by SubaDuba420

This is the part that boggles my mind I understand there are "costs" involved with bringing it here, but you have the product, you need to sell a specific amount, does the cost really outweigh the "potential" benefit of bringing it to your largest market? Not only the direct sales but possible interest brought to the Toyota brand? Even if the numbers are small overall they would be car "enthusiasts" who currently have ZERO interest in the Toyota brand.

Worst case scenario the Yaris GR is a sales failure in the US for 1 year, they can always decide to eliminate it quickly, how much worse than the 3,400 GT86s they sold could it be

It wouldn't preclude them from bringing the Corolla GR here.....or a RAV4 GR, CHR GR, Prius GR, Tacoma GR.....

I can't count how many models (SS, RS4 w/manual come to mind) are already gone and people complain about them not being sold any longer, add 5 door WRX/STI here. Chevy never marketed the SS and the RS4 was just way too expensive at the time. Subaru just straight f'd us on the 5 door WRX/STI and they like Toyo actually make a 5 door replacement, USA hell no! Philippines, and everywhere else, YES!

And you are correct, market the f out of it in your ads with the vanilla mobiles and family trucksters (CUV's). The marketing alone and brand recognition is enough alone to bring it here. They botched it with the Poopra. All the enthusiasts know it's a damn BMW. The GR-4 is a Gazoo, 100% Toyota.

As far as numbers my goodness it wasn't built to be a high volume model. American heads of these companies baffle me. If it's not high volume they don't want it, cracker nation. But then I look at 86 sales numbers, hell Porsche numbers, and Porsche is the most profitable car company out there. Man the rona will probably bring up demand for cheap cars. The Fit is still being imported.

The American car market is mostly like the Americans themselves, FAT! Lose some weight lardasses!

[VarmintCong]

Originally Posted by hi5.0

Americans do like hatches - just not on small cars. Needs to be on bigger and truckish-looking vehicles and then hatch = OK. Also, in America - "safety" means ****ing up the other vehicle more in a crash vs having the minimum skill set and regard for other motorists to drive without crashing in the first place. Hence the rise of the larger SUV/CUV and the safety arms race resulting in heavier more complex cars all around. So Toyota USA sporty car nazi says, "No light(er) weight, manual, turbo, AWD WRC homologated hatchback for you!"

I don't think it matters at all for a WRC homologation car - I bet most buyers wouldn't even care if it was a sedan, hatch or coupe, if it's got 280 hp, front and rear diffs and is 2800 lbs. That's a unicorn these days.

I personally don't care, I'd buy it in any of those forms. It's not a CUV.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by Pre

Our car market is so much larger and these f'ers get it.

3 door hatch, check. Front and rear diffs, check. Light weight, check. 6SPD MT, check. Drive modes, 60/40, 50/50, and 30/70, check. Turbo, check. F U Toyo USA. F YOU! Never buying another Toyota product.

Meh, don't be jealous of France, they're getting shafted with a very steep "Eco Tax" for 2020; it's an "insane" gas guzzling tax.
So, the 35.5K Euro price includes 20% VAT but, most likely, doesn't include the 9K Euro gas guzzling tax.
Yes, this is not a typo, there is going to be a 9K Euro gas-guzzling tax, in France specifically, on the GR4.

[chanomatik]

Y'all can keep your goshdarned, high pollutin', mini-hatch-havin' 'Yota for that price.

Low $30k or bust, my nuts.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

Meh, don't be jealous of France, they're getting shafted with a very steep "Eco Tax" for 2020; it's an "insane" gas guzzling tax.
So, the 35.5K Euro price includes 20% VAT but, most likely, doesn't include the 9K Euro gas guzzling tax.
Yes, this is not a typo, there is going to be a 9K Euro gas-guzzling tax, in France specifically, on the GR4.

That’s political and taxation. Australia is getting it, I believe New Zealand as well, UK I think also........

[oichan]

Yeah, and they probably waste the funds on dumb things.

[Blitzkrieg]

Originally Posted by Pre

That’s political and taxation. Australia is getting it, I believe New Zealand as well, UK I think also........

I imagine Kalifornoa will get it too...

[AVANTI R5]

Toyota Confirms The U.S. Will Get A GR Hot Hatch

Toyota has indicated that the United States will get a GR-branded hot hatch.

With confirmation that the country will not receive the potent Toyota GR Yaris, the company took to Twitter on Thursday and wrote this: “While GR Yaris isn’t hitting the States… perhaps it’s time the US got a hot hatch to call its own. Join the Toyota GR family and never miss an update.”

Sadly, no additional information about this U.S.-bound hot hatch was given. Intrigued customers can head on over to a page on the Toyota website and sign up to receive updates.

While GR Yaris isn't hitting the states…perhaps it's time the U.S. got a hot hatch to call its own. Join the Toyota GR family and never miss an update: https://t.co/qsPgFbY2TI pic.twitter.com/CmD1ozxwVQ

— Toyota USA (@Toyota) May 7, 2020

On this website, Toyota follows on from its tweet, writing “[A hot hatch] that continues to push the boundaries of performance. And one that can only come from Toyota Gazoo Racing. Are you with us?”

Not long after the Toyota GR Yaris was presented to the world, reports surfaced indicating the Japanese marque would slot its 1.6-liter turbocharged three-cylinder into the Corolla as well. If the U.S. does indeed get a GR hot hatch, this will most likely be it.

Should Toyota use the same engine of the GR Yaris in the Corolla, it will probably retain the same figures of 257 hp and 266 lb-ft (360 Nm) of torque. However, whereas the potent Yaris has a trick all-wheel drive system, it’s believed that the GR Corolla will be front-wheel drive and likely offer a six-speed manual transmission to appeal to enthusiasts.

Twitter Toyota

[JP Chestnut]

Half assed is the perfect description.

[Sid03SVT]

salt meet wound

[chanomatik]

Apparently they're gonna GR the 86 too. So it's all part of a larger plan. Slow down the slow things!

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

Apparently they're gonna GR the 86 too. So it's all part of a larger plan. Slow down the slow things!

actually the GR I3T would be a good move in 86 and make it a more compelling vehicle.

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

actually the GR I3T would be a good move in 86 and make it a more compelling vehicle.

Can't argue with that, I'd be down.

Putting it in a 5 door FWD Corolla and calling it "hot"?