Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2006, 03:57 PM   #51
wrxwhat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 87653
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
97 Supra / 17 GTR
16 Z06 / 07 STI / 05 Evo

Default

Built 2.8L with a GT42r. 35k under budget
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
wrxwhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-03-2006, 03:58 PM   #52
babyblue22681
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 51981
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: west covina ca.
Vehicle:
03 fast wrx-e55
blue/desert silver

Default

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

i think this guy can do it.
mike moran can get 2200 whp from a small block chevy. if you take 4 cylinders away thats 1100 yay~!
babyblue22681 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2006, 03:59 PM   #53
JoshP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94350
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: S. Maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwhat
Built 2.8L with a GT42r. 35k under budget
JoshP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2006, 04:40 PM   #54
TypeC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9794
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Texas
Vehicle:
02 2.5LWRX-Retired
335i w/twins

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drac9
Over 3 builds I have about 90k into my RS
I would never admit that.
TypeC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2006, 05:02 PM   #55
E-Wrex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94533
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland
Vehicle:
2006 FXT Limited
Aspen white /w MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadTrip
As far as cooling goes....run it on alcohol....just the drag guys do. No cooling needed.
Couldn't you just run hardcore alky injection with high compression, advanced timing, 35lbs of boost and 12k revs? Duh, just build a cast iron closed deck 3.0 liter 4 banger that breaths fire and runs on the blood of virgins. But literally, that is going to cost him a lot more than 50 grand. It's possible on a unlimited budget, anythings possible. And street legal goes out the window when words like subaru and 1000whp get mixed together.
E-Wrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2006, 05:30 PM   #56
spoolinred
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 117017
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: somewhere in the 10's....
Vehicle:
03 2.0fpred wrx!!
blue

Default

if this idea does work out i wanna see video and dyno chart...watch out ams..
spoolinred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2006, 06:21 PM   #57
vf22-wrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 100878
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow
I want a BJ and a million dollars and thow in world peace too. I want it in 2 weeks and I'll give you $50000. What an idiot. That kind of power take lots of R&D on a new motor platform and alot more money than $50000. The rest of the driveline will need countless thousands of dollars to support that kind of power when you do get there. If that's what he wants then he would be better off starting with a platform that has shown to support that kind of power. It isn't cheap being a pioneer. I do think 600+ would be relatively doable for that kind of cash with a H6 conversion fully built.
bahaha I like how you used BJ and world peace both as examples!...how hard is it for you to get one LOL...j/k...yeah I agree on the pioneer thing...well said
vf22-wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 12:49 AM   #58
bboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56468
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
04 Improved STI
Dirty White

Default

Not for $50K.
bboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:11 AM   #59
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

EZ30R sleeved and bored out (forged internals & long rod too), built heads, GT47R, intke manifold (exhaust duh) and then all the supporting mods (fuel pumpS, injectors, rails, etc)....NOS to help make it easier
drivetrain should be interesting...
50k with hook ups and doing the work himself = possible
50k paying someone to do it = not very likely (R&D isn't cheap)
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:56 AM   #60
John2.5RS
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1140
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2000 S201 #78, '95 L
'13 F150 Ecoboost

Default

I don't believe that that is a realistic goal for any subaru with that kind of budget, and I can't imagine why you would want something like that. If you want that kind of power for less $50k you'd might as well switch vehicles. It would be a lot easier to use a viper or a Z06. a Large displacement, high reving turbo motor would do the trick, although I wouldn't think it could be had for so cheap. Why does it have to be 1000whp? Is the 900whp car they have too slow?
John2.5RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:03 PM   #61
700hp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 104164
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: columbus ohio
Vehicle:
'95 Impreza 800+hp
9.1 152mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
EZ30R sleeved and bored out
Doe's it really even need to be sleeved and bored out?
I got almost 700whp without sleeving the 2.5 4cyl. So wouldnt 1000 be possible in the 3.0 with just pistons and rods on the bottom end? Maybe not. Just thinking how to keep the budget down.
700hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:17 PM   #62
Shabib67
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 61749
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax, VA
Default

yea i would think a ez30r with built internals, heads and a gt42r or gt47r will be more than enough for 1000awhp.
Shabib67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:30 PM   #63
John2.5RS
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1140
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2000 S201 #78, '95 L
'13 F150 Ecoboost

Default

How would you fuel this beast? How about cooling it? I'd like to see it when it's done in two months.
John2.5RS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:31 PM   #64
motorswapsleeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38946
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: yay...IRAQ...yay...
Vehicle:
199? 6 diff ones
bag o' skittles

Default

the biggest prob in all honesty wouldn't be the motor issues (we allready have broken the 800whp mark) as so much the fact the transmission which quite simply suck would NEVER hold that, built, frozen,whatever.....maybe if you went built auto rwd via adapter plate....
motorswapsleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:44 PM   #65
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700hp
Doe's it really even need to be sleeved and bored out?
I got almost 700whp without sleeving the 2.5 4cyl. So wouldnt 1000 be possible in the 3.0 with just pistons and rods on the bottom end? Maybe not. Just thinking how to keep the budget down.
yeah, sleeve's wouldn't be needed but would be as insurance...but since cost is an issue...
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 02:46 PM   #66
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by babyblue22681
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

i think this guy can do it.
mike moran can get 2200 whp from a small block chevy. if you take 4 cylinders away thats 1100 yay~!
yeah, but for how much?...how long has he been trying/R&D?
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 08:56 PM   #67
motorswapsleeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38946
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: yay...IRAQ...yay...
Vehicle:
199? 6 diff ones
bag o' skittles

Default

lol i didn't even read the budget part
motorswapsleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2006, 09:38 PM   #68
veightkiller
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78967
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: vancouver B.C
Vehicle:
2011 335i
Black

Default

$50,000.00 why not just buy a supra
veightkiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 03:19 AM   #69
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

I think the H6 can do it, given time. But I want to see the clutch that can handle it......Then the tranny.....then the axles.......

I watched a Camero shear off all the lug nuts today at PIR...........
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 03:25 AM   #70
silver arrow
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Foriderp
Vehicle:
1965 MGB yellow
2008 Black Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vf22-wrx
bahaha I like how you used BJ and world peace both as examples!...how hard is it for you to get one LOL...j/k...yeah I agree on the pioneer thing...well said
Been married for 15 years, they stopped after she said "I do". Apparently that is womens code word for "I don't"
silver arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 04:38 AM   #71
motorswapsleeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38946
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: yay...IRAQ...yay...
Vehicle:
199? 6 diff ones
bag o' skittles

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil
I think the H6 can do it, given time. But I want to see the clutch that can handle it......Then the tranny.....then the axles.......

I watched a Camero shear off all the lug nuts today at PIR...........
agreed...and even if you had all that going for you better find a way to keep the trans case from flexing. I would have to agree with the supra comment...I have both the 2jz and the ej20 let suby's do what suby's do best and the big inline six crowd do their mechanical doom on wheels routine.
motorswapsleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2006, 11:14 PM   #72
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadTrip
Some very interesting info in this thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1038296

Here's a couple key points:

"This is a stock H6 motor except for the addition of Supertec Forged H6 8:1 CR pistons. The stock valve train components are a very limiting factor in pushing the motor, so this initial tune is just to help develop maps."

"Given the valve train limitations (the exhaust valve springs are only 15 lbs), I didn’t want to push the boost up above 14psi. I started at about 8psi, which quickly netted about 330whp. Upping to 10psi netteted 370whp, and 12psi over 400whp. At about 13psi, I was able to get ~420whp and about ~400 ft-lbf torque. I was very happy to get 400whp at only 12psi on pump 92 octane without the motor even breaking a sweat. At this low boost level, I could run AFRs anywhere from 11.1 to 12.5:1 without knock. "

"Here you can see the injector duty cycle, boost, and knock levels. With a peak injector duty of about 55%, 100% duty would be in the theoretical 730-750whp range. " <<Now throw in alk injection and you could be getting in the ball park, no?
Hey, that's me!

The topic of 1000whp has been something we have been discussing for some time. Adding something like Alky injection only allows the engine to make the most of the available air, not create horsepower where additional air is not available.

With the H6 at 3.0L, there are two limiting factors that make 1000whp challenging. First, the longer stroke puts some limits on RPM (as does the VERY heavy variable lift buckets). The second is of course the amount of boost you would need.

As a rough calculation, 3.0Ls at 85% eff at 6500rpm at 40psi yeilds about 70 lbs/min of air. Using something around 10-11hp/lb/min of air gets you about 700hp.

If you jump the boost to 50psi, you are talking about 80lb/min, or a bit over 800hp.

You would then need a turbo that can flow that kind of air at those pressure ratios. A 40 couldn't do it, but a 42R could. You would be at the top of the PR map at 50psi, but still workable. If you then added a 200 shot of NOS, you would be in the right ballpark.

If you really wanted 1000hp with no NOS, you would need something on the order of 60psi at 7000 rpm, which would be very very hard to do on any normal turbo. Even looking at a GT60, there is not enough PR height.

If you could rev to 8000rpm at 45psi, you would be at 90+ lb/min, which might be tweakable to 1000hp.

If you could increase VE at high RPM to 92%, 8000 rpm at only 40psi would be close to 1000hp, and right on the GT42 map.

Just some food for thought. Even with a turbo, displacement makes a big difference.

Jeff
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 12:23 AM   #73
keaniegenie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 94494
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2005 Element 92x
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
Hey, that's me!

The topic of 1000whp has been something we have been discussing for some time. Adding something like Alky injection only allows the engine to make the most of the available air, not create horsepower where additional air is not available.

With the H6 at 3.0L, there are two limiting factors that make 1000whp challenging. First, the longer stroke puts some limits on RPM (as does the VERY heavy variable lift buckets). The second is of course the amount of boost you would need.

As a rough calculation, 3.0Ls at 85% eff at 6500rpm at 40psi yeilds about 70 lbs/min of air. Using something around 10-11hp/lb/min of air gets you about 700hp.

If you jump the boost to 50psi, you are talking about 80lb/min, or a bit over 800hp.

You would then need a turbo that can flow that kind of air at those pressure ratios. A 40 couldn't do it, but a 42R could. You would be at the top of the PR map at 50psi, but still workable. If you then added a 200 shot of NOS, you would be in the right ballpark.

If you really wanted 1000hp with no NOS, you would need something on the order of 60psi at 7000 rpm, which would be very very hard to do on any normal turbo. Even looking at a GT60, there is not enough PR height.

If you could rev to 8000rpm at 45psi, you would be at 90+ lb/min, which might be tweakable to 1000hp.

If you could increase VE at high RPM to 92%, 8000 rpm at only 40psi would be close to 1000hp, and right on the GT42 map.

Just some food for thought. Even with a turbo, displacement makes a big difference.

Jeff
So, do you think you could do this for $50k

Maybe a large twin-turbo design. Twin GT35R's maybe?
keaniegenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 12:43 AM   #74
MarylandEcstasy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103518
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Washington, D.C
Vehicle:
2011 Subaru WRX
Silver

Default

I know which vendor this is coming from, I spoke with them about a week ago and this was brought up so I'll chime in, but since Unabomber does not disclose who, I won't either, in regards.

BUT, as keanie says, a twin-turbo design could be called for possibly.. I know I've seen a couple custom built EJs with a twin turbo design, not to say that they'd make a whopping load of power like what this guy wants.. but its a start towards something. If Supra's can do it on an Inline-6, then can it be done on an H-6, sleeved and closed? These guys are highly reputable and based on that and my experience, can imagine they're well up to the ask as they seem. As usual.
MarylandEcstasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 01:00 AM   #75
MarylandEcstasy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103518
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Washington, D.C
Vehicle:
2011 Subaru WRX
Silver

Default

mm..k for jokes I had an idea..

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turbo_thumper.htm

By the time this baby spooled up................ yeah, it wouldn't spool up. Ever.
MarylandEcstasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is Variable Turbine Geometry and how does it work? ka mano Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 26 10-22-2011 04:16 AM
Is 280 WHP possible on stock turbo 2.0 Rudywrx04 Newbies & FAQs 17 07-09-2008 09:29 PM
Help me out: is this dealer desperate and how firm do I stand? sonicblue Off-Topic 40 08-23-2007 12:37 PM
Who is using Motul 8100 and how do you like it? hauvis Service & Maintenance 9 09-05-2005 06:34 PM
What is this "tornado warning" and how am I supposed to feel about it? semabe Off-Topic 37 01-01-2005 06:24 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.