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Old 03-11-2013, 10:19 PM   #26
bobblehead230
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Glad I read this thread, I was gonna go stage 2 w/ an intake soon, but now I think I'm just gonna keep the stock intake w/paper filters
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #27
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Old thread but has helped me. I'm having the same problem with my 2010 wrx stage 2 sf intake. i'm using the extreme lwg stage 2 sf map and still having the problem.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:00 AM   #28
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The original poster experienced a classic case of boost creep. There's a lot of myths/misconceptions about this - some things to keep in mind:

1. GR WRX is more susceptible to this problem. It is a combination of a number of factors (and the severity of each) that determines whether you may or may not experience boost creep at stage 2 level: catless downpipe, aftermarket intake, cold temperatures, and high atmospheric pressure. Doesn't mean that you have to have all of these to experience boost creep. For example, you can experience it with a catted downpipe.

2. It can be variable when it happens. Outside temperature is a big one in this variability - some cars may be fine in spring/summer but experience the problem when temps get cold.

3. When it happens in these severe cases/conditions, a custom tune by itself will not fix it. Neither will a 3-port BCS. You can see in this thread that Ian had the OP do some runs with the fuel economy map. That disable boost control completely so that the car would run the lowest level of boost possible ("wastegate" boost). From the logs, you can see that even at 0% WGDC, he is overboosting quite a bit above 5000 RPM, meaning the ECU has no control over boost and a custom tune cannot fix this (short of manipulating the throttle tables so that at WOT at higher RPM the throttle plate closes quite a bit - but this is just a band-aid approach).

4. There are a variety of solutions if you experience notable overboost and have already tried the severe low wastegate (SLWG) map (in the case of our OTS maps). If you feel comfortable doing so, you can use Accesstuner Race to modify your stage 2 map to disable boost control. This is done by setting the entire Wastegate Duty Cycle (High) table % values to 0, saving map, and reflashing to car. You can use the fuel economy map, but on some cars the rev limiter is lower (in the 5xxx RPM range) so it may not work for a full pull. Once you have boost disabled, get a run under the coldest temps you will experience (if possible). This will confirm severe boost creep if you still overboost. If not, then that means there may be some tuneability there, but the severity could vary quite a bit with different temps - so a map created on one day (in these cases where a tune may help) may hit proper boost levels, but overboost significantly when it gets colder out or underboosting significantly when it gets warmer out. That is why this is really a mechanical issue.

5. Solutions you can try include: A. If you only overboost with extreme temps, you can keep engine speed below 5000 RPM or so during those times if you don't want to proceed with a mechanical solution B. You can put the stock intake back on (and appropriate map) C. You can increase exhaust back pressure (catted for catless DP, stock catback replaces aftermarket). D. Go with external wastegate + custom tune E. go with wastegate port + custom tune.

Bill
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
The original poster experienced a classic case of boost creep. There's a lot of myths/misconceptions about this - some things to keep in mind:

1. GR WRX is more susceptible to this problem. It is a combination of a number of factors (and the severity of each) that determines whether you may or may not experience boost creep at stage 2 level: catless downpipe, aftermarket intake, cold temperatures, and high atmospheric pressure. Doesn't mean that you have to have all of these to experience boost creep. For example, you can experience it with a catted downpipe.

2. It can be variable when it happens. Outside temperature is a big one in this variability - some cars may be fine in spring/summer but experience the problem when temps get cold.

3. When it happens in these severe cases/conditions, a custom tune by itself will not fix it. Neither will a 3-port BCS. You can see in this thread that Ian had the OP do some runs with the fuel economy map. That disable boost control completely so that the car would run the lowest level of boost possible ("wastegate" boost). From the logs, you can see that even at 0% WGDC, he is overboosting quite a bit above 5000 RPM, meaning the ECU has no control over boost and a custom tune cannot fix this (short of manipulating the throttle tables so that at WOT at higher RPM the throttle plate closes quite a bit - but this is just a band-aid approach).

4. There are a variety of solutions if you experience notable overboost and have already tried the severe low wastegate (SLWG) map (in the case of our OTS maps). If you feel comfortable doing so, you can use Accesstuner Race to modify your stage 2 map to disable boost control. This is done by setting the entire Wastegate Duty Cycle (High) table % values to 0, saving map, and reflashing to car. You can use the fuel economy map, but on some cars the rev limiter is lower (in the 5xxx RPM range) so it may not work for a full pull. Once you have boost disabled, get a run under the coldest temps you will experience (if possible). This will confirm severe boost creep if you still overboost. If not, then that means there may be some tuneability there, but the severity could vary quite a bit with different temps - so a map created on one day (in these cases where a tune may help) may hit proper boost levels, but overboost significantly when it gets colder out or underboosting significantly when it gets warmer out. That is why this is really a mechanical issue.

5. Solutions you can try include: A. If you only overboost with extreme temps, you can keep engine speed below 5000 RPM or so during those times if you don't want to proceed with a mechanical solution B. You can put the stock intake back on (and appropriate map) C. You can increase exhaust back pressure (catted for catless DP, stock catback replaces aftermarket). D. Go with external wastegate + custom tune E. go with wastegate port + custom tune.

Bill

Thanks guys for making this clear as many of the people I talk with / tune dont realize the truths of this issue. Either you take off your intake, put in a catted DP, or port your IWG / switch to EWG. This is the only way to resolve boost creep.

Easiest way to tell if your creeping is by doing what the OP did with the economy map (or simply zeroing out your wastegate tables) and then doing a pull. Boost keeps climbing even though Wastegate is 0. This is mechanical boost creep. It is dangerous, as it can creep up to boost cut / fuel cut, which on most cars is somewhere in the neighborhood of 21-23 psi depending on your tuner.

Like Bill said, the weather and how far your rev out will determine how much creep you get. If you kept things under 5k in the cold you *should* be fine. But I have also seen guys with minimal creep issues / none at all, boost spike by WOT downshifting in an auto, or downshifting hard from 6 -> 5 or 5-> 4 with just a DP. This is simply showing our engines ability to overrun the turbo and the Wastegate with it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:25 PM   #30
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Hmmm....answered my question that I'm encountering ATM as well. If I end up upgrading to a new turbo, will I encounter the same issues with that turbo as well? It's internally waste gated as well.... Blouch 1.5 Dom.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:28 PM   #31
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I'm not sure if someone answered this question. But like the original poster was asking, if this fuel cut off does not occur in the warmer temperatures, is it safe to keep the current tune and mods??

My car only experiences a fuel cut when its below 40 degrees. Wondering if this is still damaging my car. Thank you.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:02 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugger17 View Post
I'm not sure if someone answered this question. But like the original poster was asking, if this fuel cut off does not occur in the warmer temperatures, is it safe to keep the current tune and mods??

My car only experiences a fuel cut when its below 40 degrees. Wondering if this is still damaging my car. Thank you.
Well I would say if where you live is in those temps for more then 40% of the year and you do pulls in the cold then yeah I am sure it can cause problems if you are always hitting fuel cut everytime you pull in 3rd/4th below 40. There are quite a few "ifs" in that scenario though so most people can just take it easy when its cold out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modfydsubi View Post
Hmmm....answered my question that I'm encountering ATM as well. If I end up upgrading to a new turbo, will I encounter the same issues with that turbo as well? It's internally waste gated as well.... Blouch 1.5 Dom.
As long as the wastegate flows enough to be able to control it then you shouldn't have this issue(which most aftermarket turbos have this in mind when designing that IWG port). That is why porting the Stock turbo IWG allows for boost control to be regained, once the flow is increased the turbo doesnt get overrun when the WG is bypassing the impeller.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:17 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endrswrd View Post
Well I would say if where you live is in those temps for more then 40% of the year and you do pulls in the cold then yeah I am sure it can cause problems if you are always hitting fuel cut everytime you pull in 3rd/4th below 40. There are quite a few "ifs" in that scenario though so most people can just take it easy when its cold out.



As long as the wastegate flows enough to be able to control it then you shouldn't have this issue(which most aftermarket turbos have this in mind when designing that IWG port). That is why porting the Stock turbo IWG allows for boost control to be regained, once the flow is increased the turbo doesnt get overrun when the WG is bypassing the impeller.
By wastegate flow, I'm guessing we are talking about the wastegate outlet on the hot side of the turbo housing and upgrade of the wastegate flapper?
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:40 PM   #34
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Okay let me start off my saying I have a 2012 wrx with a Invidia catted downpipe, Invidia n1 street catback exhaust, Cobb SF intake, and stage 2 tune. I've been driving with this setup for about a week now. After i finished installing the mods, I went to go test them out like any normal person would do. I did a couple of WOT pulls. 1st - 3rd gear seemed to pull strong and good. After i shifted to 4th, i resumed stepping on the throttle when suddenly i felt some sort of quick brake while i was on the gas. It was as if somebody just stepped on the brakes somewhat aggressively for half a second and let go. Afterwards, my car drove fine but my dashboard was lit up with lights. My check engine light was on along with traction control plus my cruise control light was blinking. I reset my ecu and all the lights went off. I thought it was nothing but the next day i did a couple more pulls and it happened again. It only seems to happen at high speeds at WOT. I did some WOT test to see how often it happened and i'd say it happens around 40% of the time. After i noticed that this was an issue, i did some data logs hoping they would shine some light on the problem. I noticed i was overboosting a little. I called cobb and they told me that the invidia downpipes combined with the wrx's are known to boost creep. My peak boost is suppose to be at 16.5 +/-1psi and i was hitting 17.5 constantly and 18 psi at higher speeds. I reflashed my ecu with the LWG version of the map hoping it would fix my problem. Unfortunately, it didn't. My car still was overboosting a tiny bit and the strange brake at 4th gear still happened at WOT. I used the troubleshooting option on my AP and it read: P0244 Turbocharger wastegate solenoid "A" Range/performance. The overboosting doesn't seem to be to severe. What bothers me is the strange brake. After it happens my check engine/traction control/cruise control lights always light up and it gives me that code P0244 that i mentioned earlier. I actually have a data log of 4th gear when it happened and i will link it. If you noticed on Line 43 of my 4th gear pull, my boost suddenly goes down to 12.8 when the throttle position is at 100%. Can someone please interpret my logs or help me with my problems? Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

4th gear pull: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...iUUVYZ3c#gid=0

Heres 3rd & 2nd gear if your interested. These gears feel like they are working fine but i am unsure whether they are running they way they're suppose to.
3rd gear pull - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...4eE1mUkE#gid=0
2nd gear pull - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...oSHRobUE#gid=0



i have a same problem with my 11 wrx, mine using custom uppipe n downpipe, mid pipe, kakimoto exhaust back, HKS bov, turbosmart mbc, drop in k&n filter, i set to 1.1 bar. and in 4 gear with the same problem that u are having. the problem gone after i remove the hks bov and install the stock bov, u can try
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #35
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Happended to me with invidia cbe + cobb intake stage 1 so im using lwg now. Havent pulled hard yet so dont know if its going to happen again.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:54 AM   #36
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There's a lot of great info here and I'm glad people are still sharing their experiences.

I experienced for the first time today what the OP posted. My question is, would the ECU throw Code: P0244 for any other other reason other than what has been discussed in this thread? Say... Malfunctioning/Stuck Wastegate?

My 2008 WRX was Protuned by Cobb last year February.
Mods include:
Perrin TMIC
Perrin Turbo inlet
Cobb Intake with Airbox
Cobb Catted Downpipe
SPT Catback

I received a custom Stage 2 map as well as a custom Stage 2 Econo Map which I've used off and on during my 3 hour/200 mile monthly roadtrips. I've never had a problem with any of my maps until today. Traveling back home from my trip with my Protune Econo Map flashed: I was in 5th gear traveling 65mph on the freeway. I needed to pass a car so I initiated WOT and as soon and my acceleration increased, I felt a jerk (Fuel Cut Off) and lost boost for a few seconds. All my warning lights came on with a flashing CEL (or it could have been the traction control light). I pulled over and plug-in my Accessport and read: "P0244 Turbocharger wastegate solenoid "A" Range/Performance"
I saw on my gauge that my psi spiked up to around 22-23psi from 18psi

Temperature was 89 degrees. I recently had my 60k Maintenance done on my car. The Shop Manager had recommended "One-Step Colder SparkPlugs" for my tune up.

I'm pretty sure this had nothing to do with it but I'm mentioning it for the sake of details.

I ended up unflashing the Protune Econo Map and went back to the normal/daily protune map. Just to be safe, I kept myself out of boost for 150 miles until I got home. There was probably an occasion or two where I hit boost up to 10psi but nothing further.
(I was able to get 28mpg while doing this.)

So yes, Since this has never happened to me, could this just have been a freak hiccup or my WasteGate was sticking or anything of that nature?
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejicon View Post
There's a lot of great info here and I'm glad people are still sharing their experiences.

I experienced for the first time today what the OP posted. My question is, would the ECU throw Code: P0244 for any other other reason other than what has been discussed in this thread? Say... Malfunctioning/Stuck Wastegate?

My 2008 WRX was Protuned by Cobb last year February.
Mods include:
Perrin TMIC
Perrin Turbo inlet
Cobb Intake with Airbox
Cobb Catted Downpipe
SPT Catback

I received a custom Stage 2 map as well as a custom Stage 2 Econo Map which I've used off and on during my 3 hour/200 mile monthly roadtrips. I've never had a problem with any of my maps until today. Traveling back home from my trip with my Protune Econo Map flashed: I was in 5th gear traveling 65mph on the freeway. I needed to pass a car so I initiated WOT and as soon and my acceleration increased, I felt a jerk (Fuel Cut Off) and lost boost for a few seconds. All my warning lights came on with a flashing CEL (or it could have been the traction control light). I pulled over and plug-in my Accessport and read: "P0244 Turbocharger wastegate solenoid "A" Range/Performance"
I saw on my gauge that my psi spiked up to around 22-23psi from 18psi

Temperature was 89 degrees. I recently had my 60k Maintenance done on my car. The Shop Manager had recommended "One-Step Colder SparkPlugs" for my tune up.

I'm pretty sure this had nothing to do with it but I'm mentioning it for the sake of details.

I ended up unflashing the Protune Econo Map and went back to the normal/daily protune map. Just to be safe, I kept myself out of boost for 150 miles until I got home. There was probably an occasion or two where I hit boost up to 10psi but nothing further.
(I was able to get 28mpg while doing this.)

So yes, Since this has never happened to me, could this just have been a freak hiccup or my WasteGate was sticking or anything of that nature?
P0244 simply means you exceeded specific boost limits that are designated in the tune and the engine control unit (ECU) has taken action as a result. There can be many causes. Since you have custom tune, the first step would be give the shop a call would did the original tune (sounds like it was one of our retail stores). They know how the car was responding when it was being tuned. Since it was in a higher gear (which increases the chances of overboosting), it may just mean the tune needs to be tweaked.

Bill
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:04 PM   #38
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Yes. I got my tune done at Cobb SoCal.
It's been a solid tune. I'll give them a call.
Thanks for the reply Bill.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
The Op is fine. When he overboosted he was in fourth gear where the 2.5 liter wrx's are prone to overboost when WOT in higher gears. His third gear pull isn't over boosting outside of the acceptable parameters according to Cobb's notes. I'd leave it be. There's no real need to to WOT in fourth anyway on the street.

OP just don't got WOT in 4th for long. Go wot until you see it start to creep, and then let out a little to keep it around target boost.
^^^Smart man!
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:54 AM   #40
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This thread has helped me out a lot. I recently got my 13 wrx and 2 days later put in invidia q300 and invidia catless downpipe. I havent run my car very hard yet in fear or overboosting and damaging my vehicle(only 2200 miles on it). I went stage 2 with cobb ap but will be protuned in the next few weeks. after that i plan on riding it a little hard from time to time. I do have a question about getting an aftermarket IWG. Does it helps at all for overboost? For example the turbosmart iwg75 actuator. Im not entirely sure what the actuator actually does. Also i have heard porting the iwg can run about 100-300$ is that about right?
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:26 PM   #41
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An aftermarket IWG actuator will not help with an over boost or boost creep issue. They are typically used to run more boost pressure and/or have more stable boost control at higher boost levels. Perrin has an awesome 3 part tech article about boost control systems and how they work here. It's a good read and will hopefully give you a better understanding.

- Chris
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:11 AM   #42
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I just had his problem, when i wot on third then shift to 4, there was a jerk fuel cut. engine off. Lights traction control light, check engine light, and cruise control light went off. I'm already running the lwg maps... 2-90 is 3rd gear and 92 + is 4th Soon after row 94 i experience a fuel cut and engine shut off.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Did this cause a lot of damage? It was pretty dam scary.. car shutting off and all.

Last edited by subisales; 05-31-2014 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:27 AM   #43
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I had this happen a few weeks ago now... it's pretty scary especially at 130 mph a lwg isn't going to help but the good news is this has been happening alot with 2011-14 wrx (I contacted cobb) what happened is you over boosted and the ecu protecting the engine and turbo hit a fuel cut... so nothing harmful really just basically a governor... now if you going into this forum and go to engine tuning and then the accessport section you can scroll through until you find the cobb beta maps.. these are maps they have been developing because of this issue they work awesome and are great.. you might notice though the normal map will run low boost if so download the HWG map that's what I'm running and it hits about 16.5 or 17 (stage 1 for me) hope this helps

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Old 06-03-2014, 10:26 AM   #44
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If you use the max requested torque comp per gear table a and b in your throttle tables folder to requested torque limits in access tuner race you can adjust your boost target tables per gear so you don't over boost in fourth and fifth your BT table is founded on your requested torque per rpm, so when you adjust the comp in the higher boost areas you can tell it how much you want in that gear.... When you switch to an LWG map your totally throwing off your entire powerbands boost target adjustments and your turbo dynamics will have to react more.... When you wanna hit your boost without it having to correct as less as possible. You can also try just working with your wgdc high a bit and see where you need to be... When installed a Grimm speed three port EBC it took a bit to dial in but that comp table will help you so much in keeping your boost consistent....
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:03 AM   #45
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Bumping this because I have been experiencing the same with my 2012. I'm fine up to 3rd but when going WOT in 4th it kicks in at the higher RPM's. I'm going to get my tuner to look at it but I'm definitely going to just lay of the WOT in 4th (even though its a fun gear). Nice to know I'm not the only experiencing this. OP, great write up in explaining the issue.
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:42 AM   #46
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so i keep getting this damn code as well, it happens once every few months it only happens when i am doing repeated pulls on the freeway with my buddies. it never happens if i just do one pull and then drive easy. i have already tried setting it to the LWG map and it didn't fix it.

i am stage 2+sf LWG map, cobb DP, stock midpipe, nameless muffler delete, cobb SF SRI, and turbosmart BPV.

i have heard that getting an EWG can fix this problem for good. is this true? which ones are the best to look at? does an EWG require additional tuning?
also is porting a better cheaper option that works just as well?

any help is great, thanks.
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:34 AM   #47
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You gotta either take the intake off get an ewg or port the turbo... it's cause your wastegate is maxed out and can't control boost. Aka boost creep the car hits a boost cut in the ecu to protect the engine and turbo... and yes of course you need a tune after installing an ewg.. a pro tune will be very beneficial to your car

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Old 10-04-2014, 09:31 AM   #48
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Well my 2012 wrx just did this twice in 4th wot. Stage2 base map 93. Cobb intake and air box ,cobb downpipe,spt catback. The outside temp just hit a season low of 45 since I have had the car so I'm thinking it's a temp problem.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:31 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crucial256 View Post
Well my 2012 wrx just did this twice in 4th wot. Stage2 base map 93. Cobb intake and air box ,cobb downpipe,spt catback. The outside temp just hit a season low of 45 since I have had the car so I'm thinking it's a temp problem.
get the tune adjusted. i went though same issue. the wastegate duty cycles need to be adjusted.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:14 PM   #50
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You can try the LWG map, take off the intake, or adjust the IAT WGDC in ATR for the specific temp range you are driving in.
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