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03-11-2013, 10:19 PM | #26 |
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Glad I read this thread, I was gonna go stage 2 w/ an intake soon, but now I think I'm just gonna keep the stock intake w/paper filters
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03-18-2013, 06:07 PM | #27 |
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Old thread but has helped me. I'm having the same problem with my 2010 wrx stage 2 sf intake. i'm using the extreme lwg stage 2 sf map and still having the problem.
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03-19-2013, 09:00 AM | #28 |
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The original poster experienced a classic case of boost creep. There's a lot of myths/misconceptions about this - some things to keep in mind:
1. GR WRX is more susceptible to this problem. It is a combination of a number of factors (and the severity of each) that determines whether you may or may not experience boost creep at stage 2 level: catless downpipe, aftermarket intake, cold temperatures, and high atmospheric pressure. Doesn't mean that you have to have all of these to experience boost creep. For example, you can experience it with a catted downpipe. 2. It can be variable when it happens. Outside temperature is a big one in this variability - some cars may be fine in spring/summer but experience the problem when temps get cold. 3. When it happens in these severe cases/conditions, a custom tune by itself will not fix it. Neither will a 3-port BCS. You can see in this thread that Ian had the OP do some runs with the fuel economy map. That disable boost control completely so that the car would run the lowest level of boost possible ("wastegate" boost). From the logs, you can see that even at 0% WGDC, he is overboosting quite a bit above 5000 RPM, meaning the ECU has no control over boost and a custom tune cannot fix this (short of manipulating the throttle tables so that at WOT at higher RPM the throttle plate closes quite a bit - but this is just a band-aid approach). 4. There are a variety of solutions if you experience notable overboost and have already tried the severe low wastegate (SLWG) map (in the case of our OTS maps). If you feel comfortable doing so, you can use Accesstuner Race to modify your stage 2 map to disable boost control. This is done by setting the entire Wastegate Duty Cycle (High) table % values to 0, saving map, and reflashing to car. You can use the fuel economy map, but on some cars the rev limiter is lower (in the 5xxx RPM range) so it may not work for a full pull. Once you have boost disabled, get a run under the coldest temps you will experience (if possible). This will confirm severe boost creep if you still overboost. If not, then that means there may be some tuneability there, but the severity could vary quite a bit with different temps - so a map created on one day (in these cases where a tune may help) may hit proper boost levels, but overboost significantly when it gets colder out or underboosting significantly when it gets warmer out. That is why this is really a mechanical issue. 5. Solutions you can try include: A. If you only overboost with extreme temps, you can keep engine speed below 5000 RPM or so during those times if you don't want to proceed with a mechanical solution B. You can put the stock intake back on (and appropriate map) C. You can increase exhaust back pressure (catted for catless DP, stock catback replaces aftermarket). D. Go with external wastegate + custom tune E. go with wastegate port + custom tune. Bill |
03-19-2013, 09:23 AM | #29 | |
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Thanks guys for making this clear as many of the people I talk with / tune dont realize the truths of this issue. Either you take off your intake, put in a catted DP, or port your IWG / switch to EWG. This is the only way to resolve boost creep. Easiest way to tell if your creeping is by doing what the OP did with the economy map (or simply zeroing out your wastegate tables) and then doing a pull. Boost keeps climbing even though Wastegate is 0. This is mechanical boost creep. It is dangerous, as it can creep up to boost cut / fuel cut, which on most cars is somewhere in the neighborhood of 21-23 psi depending on your tuner. Like Bill said, the weather and how far your rev out will determine how much creep you get. If you kept things under 5k in the cold you *should* be fine. But I have also seen guys with minimal creep issues / none at all, boost spike by WOT downshifting in an auto, or downshifting hard from 6 -> 5 or 5-> 4 with just a DP. This is simply showing our engines ability to overrun the turbo and the Wastegate with it. |
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04-16-2013, 03:25 PM | #30 |
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Hmmm....answered my question that I'm encountering ATM as well. If I end up upgrading to a new turbo, will I encounter the same issues with that turbo as well? It's internally waste gated as well.... Blouch 1.5 Dom.
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04-16-2013, 06:28 PM | #31 |
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I'm not sure if someone answered this question. But like the original poster was asking, if this fuel cut off does not occur in the warmer temperatures, is it safe to keep the current tune and mods??
My car only experiences a fuel cut when its below 40 degrees. Wondering if this is still damaging my car. Thank you. |
04-16-2013, 07:02 PM | #32 | |
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As long as the wastegate flows enough to be able to control it then you shouldn't have this issue(which most aftermarket turbos have this in mind when designing that IWG port). That is why porting the Stock turbo IWG allows for boost control to be regained, once the flow is increased the turbo doesnt get overrun when the WG is bypassing the impeller. |
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04-17-2013, 02:17 AM | #33 | |
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05-10-2013, 06:40 PM | #34 | |
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i have a same problem with my 11 wrx, mine using custom uppipe n downpipe, mid pipe, kakimoto exhaust back, HKS bov, turbosmart mbc, drop in k&n filter, i set to 1.1 bar. and in 4 gear with the same problem that u are having. the problem gone after i remove the hks bov and install the stock bov, u can try |
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05-12-2013, 03:45 PM | #35 |
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Happended to me with invidia cbe + cobb intake stage 1 so im using lwg now. Havent pulled hard yet so dont know if its going to happen again.
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05-20-2013, 02:54 AM | #36 |
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There's a lot of great info here and I'm glad people are still sharing their experiences.
I experienced for the first time today what the OP posted. My question is, would the ECU throw Code: P0244 for any other other reason other than what has been discussed in this thread? Say... Malfunctioning/Stuck Wastegate? My 2008 WRX was Protuned by Cobb last year February. Mods include: Perrin TMIC Perrin Turbo inlet Cobb Intake with Airbox Cobb Catted Downpipe SPT Catback I received a custom Stage 2 map as well as a custom Stage 2 Econo Map which I've used off and on during my 3 hour/200 mile monthly roadtrips. I've never had a problem with any of my maps until today. Traveling back home from my trip with my Protune Econo Map flashed: I was in 5th gear traveling 65mph on the freeway. I needed to pass a car so I initiated WOT and as soon and my acceleration increased, I felt a jerk (Fuel Cut Off) and lost boost for a few seconds. All my warning lights came on with a flashing CEL (or it could have been the traction control light). I pulled over and plug-in my Accessport and read: "P0244 Turbocharger wastegate solenoid "A" Range/Performance" I saw on my gauge that my psi spiked up to around 22-23psi from 18psi Temperature was 89 degrees. I recently had my 60k Maintenance done on my car. The Shop Manager had recommended "One-Step Colder SparkPlugs" for my tune up. I'm pretty sure this had nothing to do with it but I'm mentioning it for the sake of details. I ended up unflashing the Protune Econo Map and went back to the normal/daily protune map. Just to be safe, I kept myself out of boost for 150 miles until I got home. There was probably an occasion or two where I hit boost up to 10psi but nothing further. (I was able to get 28mpg while doing this.) So yes, Since this has never happened to me, could this just have been a freak hiccup or my WasteGate was sticking or anything of that nature? |
05-20-2013, 09:47 AM | #37 | |
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Quote:
Bill |
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05-20-2013, 01:04 PM | #38 |
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Yes. I got my tune done at Cobb SoCal.
It's been a solid tune. I'll give them a call. Thanks for the reply Bill. |
04-01-2014, 12:01 PM | #39 | |
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04-29-2014, 01:54 AM | #40 |
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This thread has helped me out a lot. I recently got my 13 wrx and 2 days later put in invidia q300 and invidia catless downpipe. I havent run my car very hard yet in fear or overboosting and damaging my vehicle(only 2200 miles on it). I went stage 2 with cobb ap but will be protuned in the next few weeks. after that i plan on riding it a little hard from time to time. I do have a question about getting an aftermarket IWG. Does it helps at all for overboost? For example the turbosmart iwg75 actuator. Im not entirely sure what the actuator actually does. Also i have heard porting the iwg can run about 100-300$ is that about right?
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04-29-2014, 06:26 PM | #41 |
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An aftermarket IWG actuator will not help with an over boost or boost creep issue. They are typically used to run more boost pressure and/or have more stable boost control at higher boost levels. Perrin has an awesome 3 part tech article about boost control systems and how they work here. It's a good read and will hopefully give you a better understanding.
- Chris |
05-31-2014, 06:11 AM | #42 |
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I just had his problem, when i wot on third then shift to 4, there was a jerk fuel cut. engine off. Lights traction control light, check engine light, and cruise control light went off. I'm already running the lwg maps... 2-90 is 3rd gear and 92 + is 4th Soon after row 94 i experience a fuel cut and engine shut off.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing Did this cause a lot of damage? It was pretty dam scary.. car shutting off and all. Last edited by subisales; 05-31-2014 at 02:30 PM. |
06-01-2014, 10:27 AM | #43 |
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I had this happen a few weeks ago now... it's pretty scary especially at 130 mph a lwg isn't going to help but the good news is this has been happening alot with 2011-14 wrx (I contacted cobb) what happened is you over boosted and the ecu protecting the engine and turbo hit a fuel cut... so nothing harmful really just basically a governor... now if you going into this forum and go to engine tuning and then the accessport section you can scroll through until you find the cobb beta maps.. these are maps they have been developing because of this issue they work awesome and are great.. you might notice though the normal map will run low boost if so download the HWG map that's what I'm running and it hits about 16.5 or 17 (stage 1 for me) hope this helps
Last edited by BobbyDUBRX13; 10-06-2014 at 07:14 PM. |
06-03-2014, 10:26 AM | #44 |
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If you use the max requested torque comp per gear table a and b in your throttle tables folder to requested torque limits in access tuner race you can adjust your boost target tables per gear so you don't over boost in fourth and fifth your BT table is founded on your requested torque per rpm, so when you adjust the comp in the higher boost areas you can tell it how much you want in that gear.... When you switch to an LWG map your totally throwing off your entire powerbands boost target adjustments and your turbo dynamics will have to react more.... When you wanna hit your boost without it having to correct as less as possible. You can also try just working with your wgdc high a bit and see where you need to be... When installed a Grimm speed three port EBC it took a bit to dial in but that comp table will help you so much in keeping your boost consistent....
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09-06-2014, 09:03 AM | #45 |
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Bumping this because I have been experiencing the same with my 2012. I'm fine up to 3rd but when going WOT in 4th it kicks in at the higher RPM's. I'm going to get my tuner to look at it but I'm definitely going to just lay of the WOT in 4th (even though its a fun gear). Nice to know I'm not the only experiencing this. OP, great write up in explaining the issue.
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09-10-2014, 11:42 AM | #46 |
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so i keep getting this damn code as well, it happens once every few months it only happens when i am doing repeated pulls on the freeway with my buddies. it never happens if i just do one pull and then drive easy. i have already tried setting it to the LWG map and it didn't fix it.
i am stage 2+sf LWG map, cobb DP, stock midpipe, nameless muffler delete, cobb SF SRI, and turbosmart BPV. i have heard that getting an EWG can fix this problem for good. is this true? which ones are the best to look at? does an EWG require additional tuning? also is porting a better cheaper option that works just as well? any help is great, thanks. |
09-16-2014, 05:34 AM | #47 |
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You gotta either take the intake off get an ewg or port the turbo... it's cause your wastegate is maxed out and can't control boost. Aka boost creep the car hits a boost cut in the ecu to protect the engine and turbo... and yes of course you need a tune after installing an ewg.. a pro tune will be very beneficial to your car
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10-04-2014, 09:31 AM | #48 |
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Well my 2012 wrx just did this twice in 4th wot. Stage2 base map 93. Cobb intake and air box ,cobb downpipe,spt catback. The outside temp just hit a season low of 45 since I have had the car so I'm thinking it's a temp problem.
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10-04-2014, 10:31 AM | #49 |
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get the tune adjusted. i went though same issue. the wastegate duty cycles need to be adjusted.
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10-04-2014, 09:14 PM | #50 |
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You can try the LWG map, take off the intake, or adjust the IAT WGDC in ATR for the specific temp range you are driving in.
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