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Old 04-08-2010, 04:32 PM   #1
JDMFLCL
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Default Rob's tune or PFC tune?

So I'm thinking of selling my PFC and going instead with an eprom chipped ecu. I'd love some suggestions!

Here is my "modlist"

EJ20G
Td05-16g
Gruppe-S 4-1 UEL
JDM uppipe
3" BPM turboback+divorced downpipe
CX racing FMIC+VTA bov
Fecker Adaptered 550cc Injectors
KN SRI
Apexi AVC-R
2002 wrx coilpack mod
Walbro

I saw that the thread with the dyno chart showed that it was on 92 octane gas (we only have 91 octane here), but the target boost and overall numbers are inline with what I'm looking for. Which way would you guys go? Keep PFC and get tuned or the other option? I would take the proceeds from the PFC and put it into the bushings, group n motormounts, lockbolts, and a SS.
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:56 PM   #2
rob
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well, in my opinion... er...um. Hey what was that?

<running away from vendor police> NEVER MIND!

Last edited by rob; 04-08-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:01 PM   #3
Cbgrandtheftauto
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well, in my opinion... er...um. Hey what was that?

<running away from vendor police> NEVER MIND!



..run rob run
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:34 PM   #4
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with that setup it would be best (cost wise) to get the chip...
thats like everything u need. we'll see who gets more WHP. with a fmic

but if u are getting a bigger turbo/injectors and stuff later on... maybe the PFC would be better in the long run. but to me the chip is enough.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:58 PM   #5
JDMFLCL
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Well I do have the PFC already. I'm just worried about the variances in altitude as well as the difference in gas.
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JDMFLCL View Post
Well I do have the PFC already. I'm just worried about the variances in altitude as well as the difference in gas.
Get your PFC tuned properly and call it a day
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:10 AM   #7
JDMFLCL
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Get your PFC tuned properly and call it a day
that's the plan. Just exploring my other options!
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMFLCL View Post
Well I do have the PFC already. I'm just worried about the variances in altitude as well as the difference in gas.
if you have dataloggit then you can just do a small touchup for when changing alts and gas
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:52 AM   #9
JDMFLCL
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Originally Posted by Cbgrandtheftauto View Post
if you have dataloggit then you can just do a small touchup for when changing alts and gas
don't have it. My tuner has Power Excel and he said he would show me how to slightly scale back timing etc...
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:55 AM   #10
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Phew, that was a close one....I think I am in the clear....for now

Just out of curiosity, what have you been quoted from your tuner for a full PFC tune?

-Rob
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:46 AM   #11
JDMFLCL
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350-400
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:58 AM   #12
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Considering that you do already have the PFC, I would say get it tuned.

BUT, keep in mind that the PFC has no active knock correction. It will be up to you to recognize detonation and then use the hand controller to correct for it. It's easy to do a temporary "across the board" timing or fuel adjustment (that will reset to original tune when the key is turned off) with the hand controller.

Robs tune uses the already very good OEM knock correction routines, and (IIRC) even improves on them.

.....just something to think about that hasn't been mentioned yet.....
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:11 AM   #13
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I've been reading up about that on RX7 forums. So basically just set the knock threshold lower than the preset "60" to make it more "accurate." Or get a J&S safeguard.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:33 AM   #14
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Maybe answering these questions for yourself will help. For the sake of argument, $800 + $400 for the PFC solution; what would you hope to get out of the PFC for the additional $1100 above and beyond an off the shelf stock ECU remap? The follow-on to that question would be, what other mods could you put $1100 toward?

I have a Haltech E6k on my Supercharged MR2. I love the ultimate control and flexibility of the standalone. It has allowed me to ditch the sucky Air Flow Meter, convert from a distributed ignition system to a wasted spark, direct fire setup (using high power RX7 coils no less) and eventually sequential injection with individual cylinder trim. With all that good stuff comes the realization that overall it will never run quite as nice as the stock setup and to really maximize the potential I need to spend a lot more time on the dyno futzing with it. Those are tradeoffs I can live with (plus there really isn't a stock ECU remap available). Thankfully it's not the car that I drive to work every day, or hand to my wife when I'm working on the family hauler. My RS fits that role nicely. It just so happens that it does it while shocking a few pompous vette owners from time to time

I think you will get the most useful feedback if you made it clear what the goals and priorities are for your car.

-Rob
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #15
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I am at the same point.

I have basically the same setup just mbc. I haven't bought the injectors yet, but you can buy them on here anytime cheap. I already have rails that will fit the sti injectors, I don't need the collars.

I have a chance to buy a link later today really cheap, like crackhead deal cheap.

The thing is, I know myself all too well. If I got the link I would be out with a laptop everyday messing with it. When I had the 02 wrx, I was always making tuning changes, the car drove perfect and made great power, but I was always searching for more. If I got the chip, plug it in and forget it, which for me might be a good thing.

To me the pro for the link is no maf, the pro for the pfc is scaling for different maf. Cons for both are no knock control, although I think the new G4 link has knock control. There's also hydra, but I don't know much about them.

I took mine to a subpar dragstrip recently and went a 13.2 on 12psi with a 6K ecu. I want it to go low 12's on a good track with the 550 injectors and tune by chip or standalone. Anyone think that's reasonable? Car weighs 2700 with driver.

But ask yourself this, would you be happy at that power level? If you're never going any bigger, I'd say get the chip.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:34 PM   #16
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Well my car is really just a DD that does AutoX duty. For now I might not be going bigger...but I might be refreshing the shortblock down the road with an ej205 SB of sorts. Powerwise...this is it.

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Old 04-09-2010, 02:25 PM   #17
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If it changes anything i have noticed nobody has ever mentioned ESL Live on nasioc ? that's the route I'm going soon.. its a hot flashable daughterboard that fits inside our ecu's. It's half the price of a PFC and retains the knock correction and isn't prehistoric.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:35 PM   #18
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You may want to double check with the local Canada folks if they got the ESL problems sorted out.

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf...?topic=10589.0

The only other drawback I see is that it isn't user tunable, otherwise it's another good option for tuning the stock ECU.

-Rob

Last edited by rob; 04-09-2010 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:39 PM   #19
JDMFLCL
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I considered going with the ESL board before I bought the PFC...but I didn't know anyone who was willing to tune it. (My guestimate is that it's similar to crome for honda's?)

I think I'll stick with the PFC since it gives me flexibility down the road if I go with a bigger turbo. I just bought a Z32 Maf.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
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You may want to double check with the local Canada folks if they got the ESL problems sorted out.

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf...?topic=10589.0

The only other drawback I see is that it isn't user tunable, otherwise it's another good option for tuning the stock ECU.

-Rob
It's user tunable they will send you the software and tuning wire if you ask them, i told them I'm in Quebec with zero esl live tuner in the area and that i would take care of the install/tuning myself and they didn't seem to have any issues with this.. but i have yet to order one.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:52 PM   #21
JDMFLCL
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yeah they quoted me 490 USD at the time for the full tunable setup.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:57 PM   #22
Cbgrandtheftauto
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Originally Posted by JDMFLCL View Post
I've been reading up about that on RX7 forums. So basically just set the knock threshold lower than the preset "60" to make it more "accurate." Or get a J&S safeguard.
i set my threshold to 30 for safe measures
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:43 PM   #23
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It's user tunable they will send you the software and tuning wire if you ask them, i told them I'm in Quebec with zero esl live tuner in the area and that i would take care of the install/tuning myself and they didn't seem to have any issues with this.. but i have yet to order one.
Interesting. That is a change to the way they have been doing business. They have been very protective of their software.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:49 PM   #24
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Interesting. That is a change to the way they have been doing business. They have been very protective of their software.
There software is free on there website

http://www.enduringsolutions.co.uk/software/
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:35 PM   #25
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That's not what I am talking about

The way I understand it, that software just let's you request modification to your map. They still have to send you new chips in the mail and in the end you really are just guessing with your values.

I meant the software to do live tuning. This is what they give to their "dealers". It's kind of like Techtom or ECUTek (I think).
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