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Old 01-30-2003, 12:58 AM   #1
STR8OUT
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Default What the heck is this on his intake manifold? air/water intercooler??

He has it listed on his site but it doesnt say exactly what this is.....He list an air/water intercooler on his site and thats the only thing I could think it could be. Please let me know. Its confusing the hell out of me, I've never seen one before....Would it work with a FMIC?

Heres the site

Heres the pics:






Thanks!
-Brian
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Old 01-30-2003, 01:02 AM   #2
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Yup that's what it it Brian..It'a a pretty cool setup...Gerry
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Old 01-30-2003, 03:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Would it work with a FMIC?
interesting....it looks like he already has a FMIC, but it's (basically) a radiator...my JDM Legacy RS has a water/air intercooled turbo & is a very similar looking setup - although the coolant reservoir is not separate like this one....see the blue hose that runs to the front of the car from the heat exchanger? tht'll more than likely run to the radiator that cools the intercooler water...just like the Legacy!
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:27 AM   #4
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What I want to know is.... Why?
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by jblaine
What I want to know is.... Why?

With an air to water intercooler you can get over 100% efficancy for 1/4 mile runs. The other thing is the size. If you look at the air to air on the WRX and the compare to that set up the air to air takes up alot more room. The down side is that it is complicated is your water resivior or your radiator is to small the system will become heat soaked after long runs on boost.
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:10 AM   #6
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how about an approximate weight difference between air-to-air and air-to-water systems? Is it moot?
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Old 01-30-2003, 10:13 AM   #7
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Would this even be effective for daily driving?
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Old 01-30-2003, 12:37 PM   #8
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Yeah, that's basically my point (re: Why?). I've no hard numbers to back it up, but I cannot fathom this thing cooling better than the stock air/air IC, it is more fault-prone, and if it's lighter than stock is VERY minimally so (the stock IC weighs nearly nothing).

While unique, it does not at all seem practical to me.
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Old 01-30-2003, 01:21 PM   #9
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A front mount air to air and a top mount water to air? On paper it looks good but if you really think about it, it can't work that well. The pressure drop must be quite bad, it weighs a lot more (a water to air weighs much more then just a top mount air to air), his water to air IC has a tiny reservoir so the water will heat up too fast. I would rather have a fmic with nitrous spray to cool it down.
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:01 PM   #10
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No, no , no... The car pictured does not have a FMIC (air-air) AND the air-water. That would make no sense at all. The water, after absorbing heat in the A-W core exists the on the right side heads up front and passes through a heat exchanger (a radiator) on the front of the car which should cool the water back down to something at least very close to ambient temp. The water then makes its way back up, through the reservoir, then back through the A-W core again. The reservoir is a convenient place to add ice though..

I think perhaps some of you are being confused by the metal tube going into fenderwell? Looks to me that is simply a cold air intake that connects to the compressor inlet on the turbo.
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:05 PM   #11
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A water/air IC is more commonly used on turbo marine engine applications where there is an unlimited supply of very cold (<40F)water available. My high speed BMW turbo marine diesel IC is always cold to the touch, even under heavy load. For marine use it is a simple (one extra high volume pump), and a very, very, efficient IC system. Besides being, heavy, complicated, and expensive in a car; two heat exchange processes must take place. One air/water on the turbo compressor outlet, and another water/air via a radiator. This is not a very efficient method, and since it does not have unlimited cold water as a marine unit, it is limited to cooling the water only to something near ambient air temperature. Neither of these heat exchanges are going to be anywhere near 100% efficiency. Beautiful installation though...
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:15 PM   #12
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You may also want to notice that is an 02+ 2.5RS with no hood scoop. The efficiency of the A/W IC will beat an A/A IC hands down. Plus, the packaging is better suited for the closed hood. Unlike a FMIC which usually requires cutting the bumper support and bumper skin, the A/W IC ususally uses a rather low profile heat exchanger.
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:39 PM   #13
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It's a "air water intercooler with 3 laminova core tubes" (from his site). It's the Laminova cores, who's high efficiency allows for such a small package. As far as efficiency goes, I believe mmurry75 was referring to filling the reservoir with ice to acheive 100%+ eff. I think the key to these systems, for daily driving, is having a large fluid reservoir (a decent sized heat exchanger wouldn't hurt either). Remember, water can absorb something like 5 times more heat energy(if memory serves) then air. IMO, it's going to be harder then people think to raise the reservoir water temp, especially a large one. I wish he'd sell one seperate from the kit. I'd be willing to try it. My biggest fear would be for the electric water pump to burn out before I realized it Hey, it (Laminova a/w ic) was good enough for Mercedes and Ford uses 'em (a/w ic) in the Lightning and Cobra. Couldn't be too bad for daily driving.
-Leland
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:53 PM   #14
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if you guys didnt know, some subarus came from the factory with air-to-water intercooling
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Old 01-30-2003, 05:18 PM   #15
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Yup. It's an air-to-water intercooling system with a front mount "heat exchanger" and NOT a FMIC. It's a pretty efficient sysetm. It really "shines" for in city driving/heavy traffic/etc due to it's continual cooling flow from top heat exchanger through front mount heat exchanger.

I used to have one on my car and sold it to zmw (on this board). My system didn't have a resovoir tank and so therefore I couldn't exploit the full potential of the system for drag racing with some ice .
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Old 01-30-2003, 11:01 PM   #16
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Another plus to air/water is that the flow is usually very good. Restriction is much less than air/air setups.

I don't think it's worth the tradeoff, but there are setups out there. At one point nathan was looking at a significantly more serious air/water setup.
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Old 01-31-2003, 12:25 AM   #17
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Just for some info the supercharger system on the 03 Cobras and Lightings use air/water intercoolers. They run in with the main radiator and are not the best at cooling. They are compact and the superchargers on those run hotter than the typical sc setup.

I always question how good they can cool when tied to the main coolant system but then again I question how efficient mine is sitting on top of the motor on a hot day. Those Fords are fast as heck so they must be worth the extra trouble.
Rob
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Old 02-03-2003, 08:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
if you guys didnt know, some subarus came from the factory with air-to-water intercooling
Yep, like mine the standard water/air intercooler as fitted to the JDM Legacy RS (model BC5) is good for about 290HP (standard 220HP), after that you need to increase the heat exchanger (front mounted radiator) size....
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Old 02-04-2003, 03:31 AM   #19
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Ahh.. glad to see someone did this. I was actually thinking how nicely an a/w IC would fit in place of the stock WRX IC. A correctly sized a/w IC system could be a great alternative to a FMIC. Providing the same if not greater efficiency but providing for a decreased pressure drop due to direct piping and also a stealth factor as you don't have an expensive FMIC sitting out for the public eye. Also no need for chopping up the bumper support.

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:27 PM   #20
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http://www.pdmturbos.com/Index4.html

Looks like the same system
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