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Old 09-02-2015, 04:48 PM   #76
albrecht09
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Yeah, thats what I was figuring if it doesn't turn out to be something that came loose in the engine bay. 5 more damn miles, and i would have made it to NTB and passed inspection and i could have put this off for a while...
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:49 PM   #77
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Fantastic write up though, I am very happy that I no longer have to leave my car running when pumping gas to avoid dealing with the start up issue haha.
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:42 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
For the plastic manifold guys.

Looking at the diagram, and then looking at my 2008 wrx, it appears to follow the schematic.

Manual said "FROM '06MY"





During Vacuum // At Pressure(pressurized)

Purge control valve 1: Operating // Not Operating
Purge control valve 2: Not Operating // Operating


Purge valve 1 is directly behind the AC compressor, and connects to the plastic manifold-center front.(opens in vacuum to vent directly into the intake manifold)(the other line goes straight down, and T's into the metal fuel vent line. the metal vent line runs a bit, then a rubber hose connects and runs to the purge valve2.)

If you suspect a faulty purge valve 1, it appears you can remove the hose that goes to the plastic manifold, cap manifold and purge valve1 where you removed the hose. I did that, don't know how well it will handle higher boost levels over time? The system is still vented through the other purge valve2. You can remove either one and still be venting into the engine, if you so wish. You would still have the ECU additives for the evap though, dunno how much that would effect the tune?

Purge valve 2 is over by the inlet tube/boost solenoid area, and hooks into the plastic intake right there.(opens during boost, venting into the turbo inlet tube, which will be under vacuum at this point)the other line runs over by the AC compressor and hooks into the metal fuel vent line.
My 09' just threw a P0301 and from doing research, seems like many people have had success with cleaning out the purge valve. In my case, would you recommend I probably remove both to clean out? From the looks of the diagram and being unable to identify them today when looking for them in my engine bay, I'm going to assume it's not going to be an easy task....
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Old 10-01-2015, 09:02 AM   #79
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What about deleting the evap system all together? Can we just toss it out on the tune?
All the jdm guys do it.
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Old 10-07-2015, 08:10 PM   #80
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This might be a dumb question but when i was rebuilding my motor i opted to get rid of the GOB's for easier injector swaps down the line. If i remember correctly the evap purge solonoid is mounted on the passenger side GOB...... now since this rebuild i have been plauged with this code i have tried every plumbing schematic a moderately new evap solonoid (from a reputable ebay seller) and now im wondering does the evap solonoid need to be connected to the Green Bracket Of Death in order to ground itself or something?


The car is a 04 wrx wagon and i have tried everything from the delete to a new engine harness and im still pulling this code evap sensor circuit to high.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

And i mean delete as in the plumbing delete and also getting the code removed by a tuner (also very reputable) and still it pops up after about ten minutes of driving every time

Last edited by coryvismith44; 10-07-2015 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Sorry wrong engine section :/
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-Know View Post
My 09' just threw a P0301 and from doing research, seems like many people have had success with cleaning out the purge valve. In my case, would you recommend I probably remove both to clean out? From the looks of the diagram and being unable to identify them today when looking for them in my engine bay, I'm going to assume it's not going to be an easy task....
Standing in front of the car looking at the engine.

One of the purge valves should be bolted on a bracket, by itself, to the front/bottom side of the plastic manifold. Just to the right of the alternator. It will have one hose that attaches directly to the center front of the plastic manifold, and the other hose will go down and hook into a metal hardline, that looks like the fuel lines-it's just the fuel tank vent.


The second purge valve will be to the left of the alternator, over by your turbo inlet. It will be on that bracket(attached to the plastic manifold)with the boost control valve, the manifold pressure sensor valve(one small hose only), and the purge valve. It will have one hose going into the turbo inlet, and the other hose will also connect in to that same metal vent line, although it runs a bit as a rubber hose, before connecting into the metal line.

Are you talking evap purge valve(gas tank vent), or secondary air valve(where the air pump turns on when cold starting & puts air in through the secondary air valves, to light off the cat faster, that can get water in em & mess up?)
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:52 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimaira4deth View Post
What about deleting the evap system all together? Can we just toss it out on the tune?
All the jdm guys do it.
Yeah, I just plugged/capped off where it hooked into the manifold, left the solenoid plugged in but venting to air. Had no problems.

I have since totally removed both of my evap solenoids(08+ have 2), and deleted the codes. No issues
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Old 10-10-2015, 11:59 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
Yeah, I just plugged/capped off where it hooked into the manifold, left the solenoid plugged in but venting to air. Had no problems.

I have since totally removed both of my evap solenoids(08+ have 2), and deleted the codes. No issues
Thanks Point, your posts in this thread were helpful. I had been contemplating deleting it all while my IM was off but didn't have everything figured out as far as locations and routing. I think I'm good now. Thanks!
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:31 AM   #84
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Hey guys I have a 2004 WRX. I have a 2011 sti block with 2.0 heads, 3 port ebcs, amrt60, tial 38mm ewg, hard inlet, Perrin rails, injectors, fmic, Walbro pump, Crawford AOS and many more. I'm not sure what other mods apply to my issue. which diagram should I use? A? Because I took my intake manifold off and I'm not sure I routed the lines correct for the purge valve. Sorry if I'm asking a dumb question. I have having boost hesitation. I have checked the following

Changed plugs
Changed fuel filter under the hood
Checked all intercooler connections, replaced fmic silicone coupler
Checked vacuum lines from ebcs
Cleaned MAF
Fixed mid pipe leak
Fixed oil line/turbo feed/AVCS stainless steel line kit, it was leaking oil on my up pipe.

The oil leak could of caused a burn in the up pipe? Pre turbo up pipe leak can cause hesitation or no?

I swapped my 3 port lines the turbo line and the inlet line, and I full boosted but over boosted and I watched in AP. The ebcs is clicking when I give it throttle.

I'm trying to schedule a smoke test for any other leaks (possibly in the up pipe, or my EWG, and idk if my turbo seals are going, I get a little smoke now and then, on start up and a little in boost but it does go away, the car runs very rich, my wideband went out, and I'm looking at AFR on the AP and it seems good, 14.5 on idle, the car won't WOT full boost. I might make a DIY pressure tester.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:07 AM   #85
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STIMULAB - I'll try my best to answer the slew of questions, most of which do not apply to the EVAP system. For additional non EVAP questions, please visit the appropriate threads.

EVAP Hose Routing = The car was originally a 2.0L, so follow the ej205 directions here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...9#post39455949

Burn in up-pipe = highly unlikely/impossible for dripping valve cover oil to burn through steel.

Turbo Lag = A leak between the turbo and intake valves, as well as a exhaust leak between the exhaust valves and turbo will all result in delayed boost response. Note, even with an air leak, the motor can still achieve peak PSI by over compensating for the air leak. This process heats up the air and loses quite a bit of power (10-50 HP).

EBCS hose routing = consult with the manual. If it is a MAC valve (cobb or grimmspeed) then their instructions show the same hose routing. If over boosting continues, then consult with a tuner. The addition of a 3 port EBCS will raise PSI 2-4 PSI on a 2002-2005 WRX that used to run a stock EBCS.

Boost Leak test = don't rely on leaks with your eyes, use your ears too. Do this test.
http://turboboostleaktesters.com/how...test-a-subaru/

Smoke Test = This won't find all intake leaks since it does not pressurize the system above 3-5 PSI, so you will need to do both the Boost Leak test and a Smoke Test to ensure there are no leaks found.

AFR on AP at WOT = NOT ACCURATE!!!! Fix your wide band.

Turbo Seals leaking? = Remove DP and check bell mouth for glossy oil residue, if none, then take off the exhaust manifold and look into the valve ports for glossy oil residue (looks like gloss black paint).

When in doubt, seek a professional repair facility.

Stephen
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:39 AM   #86
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Thanks for the quick response Stephen! The up pipe is a ceramic coated grimmspeed with the flex pipe and also EWG. The oil leak was from the oil line connected on the back of the block and dripping off my valve cover, and onto the flex portion of the up pipe. I cannot see through the flex portion and the collapsible accordion metal inside the flex mesh might of burnt through? Idk.

I looked at my DP, I'm missing the bottom bolt but all the others are tight and there is no gap at all in the gasket, Smoke test will determine for me. There are no leaks in the exhaust manifold. I have a grimmspeed high flow x pipe. So where would an intake valve leak be? Where would an exhaust valve leak be? Are you talking inside the heads? There are both intake and exhaust valves in each head? I'm just confused with your turbo lag response, sorry.
I have the diagram for my 3 port setup and it is exactly how it should be.
The AFR was 14.5 in idle, at wot is 11.2
I'll take the DP off again and find a replacement bolt
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:45 AM   #87
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Up-pipe hole = still highly unlikely.

Intake valve = Cylinder head

Exhaust Valve = Cylinder head

AFR from the ECU (which the AP shows) is a JOKE at full throttle. The reading bottoms out at 11.2 by default and is NOT ACCURATE at full throttle. This week alone, I tuned a car where the ECU showed 11.2 and the actual AFR was 12.1 (dangerously lean). Take it or leave it, that is my $0.02 on the importance of a wide band.

Please direct all NON EVAP questions away from this thread. The goal is to keep the thread on topic.
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:51 PM   #88
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Okay..sorry but talk to Dave at Performance Auto Solutions. They told me to check my AP. Other questions I will direct to the right threads
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:00 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
Standing in front of the car looking at the engine.

One of the purge valves should be bolted on a bracket, by itself, to the front/bottom side of the plastic manifold. Just to the right of the alternator. It will have one hose that attaches directly to the center front of the plastic manifold, and the other hose will go down and hook into a metal hardline, that looks like the fuel lines-it's just the fuel tank vent.


The second purge valve will be to the left of the alternator, over by your turbo inlet. It will be on that bracket(attached to the plastic manifold)with the boost control valve, the manifold pressure sensor valve(one small hose only), and the purge valve. It will have one hose going into the turbo inlet, and the other hose will also connect in to that same metal vent line, although it runs a bit as a rubber hose, before connecting into the metal line.

Are you talking evap purge valve(gas tank vent), or secondary air valve(where the air pump turns on when cold starting & puts air in through the secondary air valves, to light off the cat faster, that can get water in em & mess up?)
Thank you for the visual!

I was referring to the evap purge valve, which seems to be a common cause for misfire CEL.
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Old 10-28-2015, 07:02 PM   #90
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Any other information on the below idea?

I have a 2004 forester XT and the nipple broke off the evap soleniod. I have an evap solenoid from a 2011 STI and I am curious if I can just use that rather than buying the $100 new valve.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jacobson View Post
I think I am going to be a bit of a test pilot on this.

I have an 2005 EJ205 and I broke the nipple on the purge valve solenoid a couple months ago.

I epoxied it back together and it worked fine until yesterday, it broke again.

I managed to get my hands on a solenoid as shown in the type C diagram off of a 2006 WRX.

The outward appearance is slightly different than the stock one that came on the car, the plastic nipples are slightly larger and the mounting bracket is different.

I swapped the mounting bracket from the broken stock one and put it on the 06 style, bought some new vacuum lines and hooked everything back up with the JDM delete.

I reset the codes and went for a quick 15 minute drive. Runs fine and so far the codes haven't come back on.

Is the one on the 06 cheaper than earlier ones? If so it appears that they are pretty much interchangeable.
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:06 PM   #91
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I am completely removing the Evap system including the lines and canister
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:41 PM   #92
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kevin11sti - It's worth a shot to toss it in, reset the ECU, and see if the code comes back.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:00 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
For the plastic manifold guys.


while the location of the purge valves is the same, i can 100% say for certain that my MY10 does not follow that schematic. most notably the drain valve/filter is completely separate from the charcoal canister (whereas in that picture they are as one).

*Stephen, let me know if you're still looking for a service manual for 08+. i have one from an 09 that seems to be spot on with my 2010 and may help if you'd like to further the thread. otherwise i dont mind adding some screenshots from the manual if people want*

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimaira4deth View Post
What about deleting the evap system all together? Can we just toss it out on the tune?
All the jdm guys do it.
this is where im currently at.

1. MY10, completely deleted purge control solenoids, codes (through tune) and all rubber hoses/lines in the engine bay, capping off 1 intake manifold nipple and 1 turbo inlet nipple. currently the line from the charcoal canister (blue line at firewall between fuel feed/return) is just capped. i dont foresee any issues with this as id rather have it capped until i can aim the fuel vapors downward away from the car/hot engine bay which i can do tomorrow when i can get some hose. if others have left this open in the engine bay let me know, hot parts + fuel vapor has me just slightly worried.

2. i'd LIKE to completely remove the charcoal canister and drain valve but its all inside the car i dont know who decided this was a good idea but cmon. if it were outside id just pull the canister/drain valve and put a breather on the vent from the tank and be done with it but i can't do that with it inside as i dont feel like smelling fuel.

I would like to discuss more of the evap system back to the charcoal canister and more of the functions of each of the valves/solenoids in the rear. i still hope to find a way to remove the charcoal canister and drain valve but the drain valve outlets from the canister and drain valve itself appear to go direct into the tank and would need to be capped. from there i just need to see which line goes from the fuel pump/tank > canister. I do have a really good picture of the canister/drain valve setup but havent quite figured out pic posting on here yet.



anyone with any questions on what i did with the purge control valves, or who wants the fsm for 09 (mine works on 2010), or has completely removed evap/canister on a 2010 or other model with the canister inside the car lets get some discussion goin!
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Old 10-29-2015, 01:53 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredP View Post
while the location of the purge valves is the same, i can 100% say for certain that my MY10 does not follow that schematic. most notably the drain valve/filter is completely separate from the charcoal canister (whereas in that picture they are as one).

*Stephen, let me know if you're still looking for a service manual for 08+. i have one from an 09 that seems to be spot on with my 2010 and may help if you'd like to further the thread. otherwise i dont mind adding some screenshots from the manual if people want*



this is where im currently at.

1. MY10, completely deleted purge control solenoids, codes (through tune) and all rubber hoses/lines in the engine bay, capping off 1 intake manifold nipple and 1 turbo inlet nipple. currently the line from the charcoal canister (blue line at firewall between fuel feed/return) is just capped. i dont foresee any issues with this as id rather have it capped until i can aim the fuel vapors downward away from the car/hot engine bay which i can do tomorrow when i can get some hose. if others have left this open in the engine bay let me know, hot parts + fuel vapor has me just slightly worried.

2. i'd LIKE to completely remove the charcoal canister and drain valve but its all inside the car i dont know who decided this was a good idea but cmon. if it were outside id just pull the canister/drain valve and put a breather on the vent from the tank and be done with it but i can't do that with it inside as i dont feel like smelling fuel.

I would like to discuss more of the evap system back to the charcoal canister and more of the functions of each of the valves/solenoids in the rear. i still hope to find a way to remove the charcoal canister and drain valve but the drain valve outlets from the canister and drain valve itself appear to go direct into the tank and would need to be capped. from there i just need to see which line goes from the fuel pump/tank > canister. I do have a really good picture of the canister/drain valve setup but havent quite figured out pic posting on here yet.



anyone with any questions on what i did with the purge control valves, or who wants the fsm for 09 (mine works on 2010), or has completely removed evap/canister on a 2010 or other model with the canister inside the car lets get some discussion goin!
If I can get some guidance on how to remove so I can clean it out, it would be greatly appreciated!!
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:12 AM   #95
JaredP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-Know View Post
If I can get some guidance on how to remove so I can clean it out, it would be greatly appreciated!!
Remove what? And what vehicle? On mobile i can't see your profile/vehicle model
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:16 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredP View Post
i dont foresee any issues with this as id rather have it capped until i can aim the fuel vapors downward away from the car/hot engine bay which i can do tomorrow when i can get some hose. if others have left this open in the engine bay let me know, hot parts + fuel vapor has me just slightly worried.
I've had mine vented open for a while now, no issues, I don't ever notice a fuel smell.

I had it vented open, in the engine bay, for a few years on a different car.
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:29 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
I've had mine vented open for a while now, no issues, I don't ever notice a fuel smell.

I had it vented open, in the engine bay, for a few years on a different car.
Ive since spoken to someone else as well that just vented in the bay without issue and removed the cap. The fuel smell i was referring to was if i vented at the canister which sits inside the car. I found the proper diagram in my fsm of the entire system from tank> drain> canister so with some studying i should find a way to remove it all. Ill update this thread if i ever get a chance on the tank side of the system and if time permits, the purge solenoids under hood for the 08+
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:59 AM   #98
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As a heads up, for those that wish to delete the entire system and live in an area where vehicle inspection is strict, we've had a few cases where defeated EVAP codes in the ECU do not stay permanently off. This is with an Accessport tune. I have yet to try it with Open Source, but I'm quite certain the outcome will be the same. This week alone was (1) 2002-2005 WRX that has recurring codes that are defeated in the tune. The issue may lie in the 16 bit ECU (2.0L) and not 32 bit (2.5L), but I have yet to really keep track of those with and without the full EVAP deletes.

JaredP - Please send me a PM with details on where to obtain the 09 service manual.

Stephen
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:31 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IA Performance View Post
As a heads up, for those that wish to delete the entire system and live in an area where vehicle inspection is strict, we've had a few cases where defeated EVAP codes in the ECU do not stay permanently off. This is with an Accessport tune. I have yet to try it with Open Source, but I'm quite certain the outcome will be the same. This week alone was (1) 2002-2005 WRX that has recurring codes that are defeated in the tune. The issue may lie in the 16 bit ECU (2.0L) and not 32 bit (2.5L), but I have yet to really keep track of those with and without the full EVAP deletes.

JaredP - Please send me a PM with details on where to obtain the 09 service manual.

Stephen
Stephen, PM me your email or post it and i can send it your way directly. it covers the n/a model as well as turbo (not sure about sti, only made my way through 2800 of 3600 pages lol).

as for emissions, no emissions where im at but i could definitely see re-occuring codes. i have my purge valves removed completely i'll see if the light ever comes on. all else fails a standalone would keep the codes off
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:47 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredP View Post
Remove what? And what vehicle? On mobile i can't see your profile/vehicle model
My apologies on my vagueness. I want to remove the purge valve to clean it out on my 09 WRX. I've been struggling with a misfire code and a dirty valve seems to be a common cause for this. Thank you!
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