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Old 11-09-2019, 02:00 PM   #1
ogintheback
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Member#: 99163
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Default Time for a new engine?

Hello all,

I’m at the point with my car, an 05 STi which I have owned since new, where I need to make some decisions.

Particulars:
162,000 miles
OEM block, OEM top mount, IXIZ AOS, full KillerBee oil setup, replaced VF39 with low mileage VF48 about 30k miles back, catless exhaust.
Just replaced the injectors with new oem (1 of the original was failing)
Mostly used T6 with 3k mile change intervals.
Tuned for 19 psi and 10.8 afr, have a lower boost track tune.
Not really relevant, but all bushings replaced, Feal 441’s, and a Southbend clutch.
Engine running well at this point.

Uses:
Florida car
I have a backup car that I rarely drive because I still enjoy my STi, so it sees daily usage.
5 days a week, with few exceptions, it gets a 3rd and 4th gear pull, but otherwise driven easily due to traffic.
Have taken it to 1 open track day (earlier this year, but want to start doing a few per year).
Never launched, never drag raced.
Taken to the “Dragon” several times, but not in the last few years.
Not looking for big power build, want reliable as I don’t like wrenching (even though I do it) and my confidence in local shops is minimal to say the least.
Always warmed up and always given time to cool down.

My question:
Realizing this is hypothetical until the block is removed, but is it probable that this block is toast given the mileage or can the cylinders be cleaned up and new pistons installed? OEM or IAG block for my purposes. Either way, I’d assume that the heads will need attention – is there some sweet power mod to be done on them?

EDIT: Wally 255 in fuel tank, E85 not available close.

Thanking you all in advance for your input
OGITB
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Last edited by ogintheback; 11-09-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 02:17 PM   #2
Dave D.
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Based on my experience, it's tough to beat an IAG Stage 2 or Stage 2 Tuff block. My heads had a mild upgrade, better valves, some cleanup of casting defects, beehive springs and some Kelford 199-B exhaust cams (my builder had a spare set and practically gave the to me). You could keep most everything else, but I'd advise some bigger injectors, fuel pump upgrade and a flex fuel option if possible. An E-85 tune would give you all the power you could want. Don't worry about adding tons of fancy bits. Good luck!
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Old 11-09-2019, 02:24 PM   #3
ogintheback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Based on my experience, it's tough to beat an IAG Stage 2 or Stage 2 Tuff block. My heads had a mild upgrade, better valves, some cleanup of casting defects, beehive springs and some Kelford 199-B exhaust cams (my builder had a spare set and practically gave the to me). You could keep most everything else, but I'd advise some bigger injectors, fuel pump upgrade and a flex fuel option if possible. An E-85 tune would give you all the power you could want. Don't worry about adding tons of fancy bits. Good luck!

Thank you!

Should have mentioned, would love e85, but none is available close.

You mention better valves - is that in regards to materials used or shape/profile of the valves?
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:00 AM   #4
Turn in Concepts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogintheback View Post
Hello all,

I’m at the point with my car, an 05 STi which I have owned since new, where I need to make some decisions.

Particulars:
162,000 miles
OEM block, OEM top mount, IXIZ AOS, full KillerBee oil setup, replaced VF39 with low mileage VF48 about 30k miles back, catless exhaust.
Just replaced the injectors with new oem (1 of the original was failing)
Mostly used T6 with 3k mile change intervals.
Tuned for 19 psi and 10.8 afr, have a lower boost track tune.
Not really relevant, but all bushings replaced, Feal 441’s, and a Southbend clutch.
Engine running well at this point.

Uses:
Florida car
I have a backup car that I rarely drive because I still enjoy my STi, so it sees daily usage.
5 days a week, with few exceptions, it gets a 3rd and 4th gear pull, but otherwise driven easily due to traffic.
Have taken it to 1 open track day (earlier this year, but want to start doing a few per year).
Never launched, never drag raced.
Taken to the “Dragon” several times, but not in the last few years.
Not looking for big power build, want reliable as I don’t like wrenching (even though I do it) and my confidence in local shops is minimal to say the least.
Always warmed up and always given time to cool down.

My question:
Realizing this is hypothetical until the block is removed, but is it probable that this block is toast given the mileage or can the cylinders be cleaned up and new pistons installed? OEM or IAG block for my purposes. Either way, I’d assume that the heads will need attention – is there some sweet power mod to be done on them?

EDIT: Wally 255 in fuel tank, E85 not available close.

Thanking you all in advance for your input
OGITB
You certainly CAN strip the old case and have machine work done. From a technical standpoint there is nothing stopping that.

For that machine work on a case with that many miles you will want at a bare minimum:

Bore and hone - you'll need the pistons on hand so PWC can be set correctly. Please be sure to have a torque plate used.
Line bore - I find this is much more accurate than a line hone.
Likely you will need the case decked.

Now, from a cost standpoint that's where things get interesting. A new case is about 1K. My COST to have that machine work done by one of the better machine shops is about 1K, and depending upon how messed up other bits are it may be more. Keep in mind that's MY COST.

So, it may be in your better interest to just buy fresh.

As for buying fresh there are a number of shops that build a very good short block and there are many many more shops that do a horrible job.

Please take some time to do your research, talk to some shops about your goals, and then go from from there.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:40 AM   #5
bitsmit
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Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
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2004 wrx sti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogintheback View Post
Hello all,

Iím at the point with my car, an 05 STi which I have owned since new, where I need to make some decisions.

Particulars:
162,000 miles
OEM block, OEM top mount, IXIZ AOS, full KillerBee oil setup, replaced VF39 with low mileage VF48 about 30k miles back, catless exhaust.
Just replaced the injectors with new oem (1 of the original was failing)
Mostly used T6 with 3k mile change intervals.
Tuned for 19 psi and 10.8 afr, have a lower boost track tune.
Not really relevant, but all bushings replaced, Feal 441ís, and a Southbend clutch.
Engine running well at this point.

Uses:
Florida car
I have a backup car that I rarely drive because I still enjoy my STi, so it sees daily usage.
5 days a week, with few exceptions, it gets a 3rd and 4th gear pull, but otherwise driven easily due to traffic.
Have taken it to 1 open track day (earlier this year, but want to start doing a few per year).
Never launched, never drag raced.
Taken to the ďDragonĒ several times, but not in the last few years.
Not looking for big power build, want reliable as I donít like wrenching (even though I do it) and my confidence in local shops is minimal to say the least.
Always warmed up and always given time to cool down.

My question:
Realizing this is hypothetical until the block is removed, but is it probable that this block is toast given the mileage or can the cylinders be cleaned up and new pistons installed? OEM or IAG block for my purposes. Either way, Iíd assume that the heads will need attention Ė is there some sweet power mod to be done on them?

EDIT: Wally 255 in fuel tank, E85 not available close.

Thanking you all in advance for your input
OGITB
I was on a similar boat a month ago. I had a head gasket issue which is not a MAJOR issue. But my car was already over 105xxx miles on the stock block so I thought why not upgrade the internals, get a bigger turbo, injectors and maybe e85(even though its tough to get e85). So I did the math and the new parts plus bore and hone + head work + labor was coming out to be roughly $500 cheaper than getting a new block with the supporting mods.

So I pulled the trigger and got the iag stage 2 tuff block.

https://www.iagperformance.com/IAG-S...g-eng-1213.htm


Here's my thread that has more detailed information. I hope it helps! Good luck with your build.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...1#post46170004
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:40 AM   #6
some dude
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Is current engine burning oil?
My 2006 has 312k and barely burns any oil.

Just thinking if it ain't broke dont fix it.

If you have $ burning a hole in pocket, build a replacement engine and flog the stocker until it dies.
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:59 AM   #7
Paul
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Chapter/Region: Tri-State
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00 RSTI Coupe
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Have you done a compression test to see if the injector failure cause any issues? If it didn’t I’d just run that engine until it craps the bed and build a spare on the side so there’s no down time. If you get lucky and have the new engine built before this one fails you could sell it to help offset the costs.

With that said yes your engine will probably be fine for a bore/hone to larger pistons and like TIC mentioned the mains could need some machining. Although doing a main line bore on a suby is expensive and very few shops can do it correctly. Only a few shops come to mind with Motion Machine probably being the best.

GL
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:03 PM   #8
Jedi03
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I'm right behind you...got extra longblock sitting on a pallet ready to go when something happens!
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:21 PM   #9
ogintheback
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude View Post
Is current engine burning oil?
My 2006 has 312k and barely burns any oil.

Just thinking if it ain't broke dont fix it.

If you have $ burning a hole in pocket, build a replacement engine and flog the stocker until it dies.
Every once in awhile I smell oil burn at startup (perhaps it burns on every startup and my nose doesn't detect it or the wind isn't blowing the correct direction?), but not much more oil consumption than it did when new.

What got me thinking about this is the damn Togue Fest, open track days, etc. I bought the car to have fun with - which for me means driving it. As it is today, the engine runs well and there is only a little fbk, flk in the cruise area and only infrequently. So, what I was/am trying to figure out is if the block could be rebuilt then I don't want to blow a hole in it driving the crap out of it. Butttttttt, if that is senseless (to those of you with this kinda knowledge) then I'm not going to worry about trying to preserve the block.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:43 PM   #10
ogintheback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Have you done a compression test to see if the injector failure cause any issues? If it didnít Iíd just run that engine until it craps the bed and build a spare on the side so thereís no down time. If you get lucky and have the new engine built before this one fails you could sell it to help offset the costs.

With that said yes your engine will probably be fine for a bore/hone to larger pistons and like TIC mentioned the mains could need some machining. Although doing a main line bore on a suby is expensive and very few shops can do it correctly. Only a few shops come to mind with Motion Machine probably being the best.

GL
No, I didn't run a compression/leakdown on it. Engine really does run well once the new injectors were swapped in and I adjusted the maf. I know that isn't scientific. Shortly after posting my original question, I came across a video whereby they were pulling a block apart and then another re-assembling it. Sadly, there isn't a shop around here that I would trust to do that. Usually, once a shop around here "finishes" my car, it has to go back or I have to get under it to finish the job.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:50 PM   #11
ogintheback
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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I'd like to say "thank you" to all of you who have responded. I know my question doesn't quite fit into this section of the forums, but I knew this is where the knowledge and experience is.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:20 PM   #12
pcampbell
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It sounds like this car has been babied. If you do a compression/leak down test and nothing is leaking you might as well just keep driving it. You could spring for a $20 used oil analysis too. If it ain't broke???
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:39 PM   #13
Paul
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00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogintheback View Post
No, I didn't run a compression/leakdown on it. Engine really does run well once the new injectors were swapped in and I adjusted the maf. I know that isn't scientific. Shortly after posting my original question, I came across a video whereby they were pulling a block apart and then another re-assembling it. Sadly, there isn't a shop around here that I would trust to do that. Usually, once a shop around here "finishes" my car, it has to go back or I have to get under it to finish the job.
People have had great running engines yet found broken rings upon disassembly. An injector failing can definitely cause some damage so Iíd do a comp test when you can.

Iíd finish filling out your profile but it says your in the south east which is where Motion Machine is. Pretty sure he doesnít do assembly but heís one of the better/best machinist with suby experience so if you can handle putting the block together when you get closer to pulling the trigger Iíd hit him up
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