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View Poll Results: Did you know that CAFE was to blame for the death of the station wagon?
Yes, I'm well read. 7 33.33%
No, I'm a rube. Or at least was before reading this. 10 47.62%
Oblig. third option. 10 47.62%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-20-2019, 02:48 PM   #51
shikataganai
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On a similar note I saw an early run LX 470 (non-LED tails, 17"s) on I-70 the other day with OEM wheels but clearly lower profile than stock tires for a lower ride height. Maybe they are stupid and didn't check the specs, or maybe they're trying to build the above vehicle.



I'm not sure if I'd ever go that far with my Land Cruiser, but will probably revert to stock height tires when the current sets wear thin.
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Old 07-20-2019, 02:56 PM   #52
lag
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
My conception of a station wagon:



Unapologetic. Useful.

Making wagons that aren't useful does nothing to stem the CAFE-aided tide.
Shikataganai in his natural habitat

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Old 07-20-2019, 03:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upnygimp View Post
I love mine. M66 and all. Itís also a half Ford with a ****load of sensors and modules that all communicate and experience cascading failure if something minute goes wrong. The differential electronic module cover on mine started to rot and suffer from water intrusion, so the ABS shat out, it started throwing brake failure warnings, and the immobilizer started going haywire and prevented the car from starting.

Now letís talk about angle gear failure, pem failure, alarm battery failure, $1600-$2500 suspension replacements with your choice being Monroe if you can find them or OEM, and thereís no route for an aftermarket setup because, again, everything is a system and youíll piss off the rest of the car if you try to remove the electronic shocks. Iím just scratching the surface. All for a car that was badass in 05 but is pretty much matched power-wise by Accords and Camrys these days.

Mine is currently not turning over and I just havenít had the energy to figure out why yet.

All that being said, I love mine. Owning it is a chore, though.
My understanding is a lot of that stuff was fixed with the 06 and 07 MYs.

If Camry's and Accords had AWD and transmissions worth a darn (as in NOT CVTs) then maybe I'd be more interested in them.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #54
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Someone mentioned the TourX. Just wanted to say they are beautiful in person. Great looking car. Insane that they can't move them.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:29 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
Someone mentioned the TourX. Just wanted to say they are beautiful in person. Great looking car. Insane that they can't move them.
I like the design but it's a GM product and that bothers me. It also needs a bit more oomph IMO. I wonder if anyone is tuning them.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:32 PM   #56
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Trifecta is, and apparently there's a fair amount of overhead in that motor.
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Old 07-20-2019, 04:20 PM   #57
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Ditto, I've considered the Tour X but I am still scared of owning a GM product. In fact, I may go check one out today. Mrs_unknown will need a new car in the next year or so.
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:35 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
Trifecta is, and apparently there's a fair amount of overhead in that motor.
Wow the Elite tune looks like a winner. Almost 300hp and earlier steeper torque curve, and includes TCM tuning at the same time.

Still a GM product unfortunately.
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
For that matter, I think the domestics could still have a niche in the large sedan world (with the wagon variant, too!) if they used the modern, body on frame Tahoe platform.

Build a big, super quiet, soft sedan. Those buyers have fled to crew cab pickups and Tahoes.

In my experience no unibody vehicle can have the same road noise isolation as a body on frame vehicle. Couple that with modern aerodynamics, a small block with a driveshaft, and a non-bench seat but roomy interior...



(It'd probably sell terribly. But better than the CT6 and the other forgettable modern crap from the domestics?)
I've yet to encounter a car that long distance cruised as well as that Roadmaster did. Even my grandparents' various flavors of Town Cars over the years were no match. It sounds like a cliche, but it was quite literally like driving a cloud. Only thing that sucked is we had the inferior V8, not the LT1, in our's.

I like to daydream about buying one of these and putting a modern GM crate motor in it. Nothing ridiculous, but just enough power to surprise some people on the street. 450-500ish hp.

We ran a lawnmowing business with it. It had no problem pulling a trailer with a couple lawnmowers on it.
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Old 07-20-2019, 08:41 PM   #60
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Super happy with my N54 E61 BMW with a tune and shocks. On the lookout for an E63 Merc, but I could drive my kids around in this for as long as it lasts, easy.
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Old 07-20-2019, 10:58 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post
I've yet to encounter a car that long distance cruised as well as that Roadmaster did. Even my grandparents' various flavors of Town Cars over the years were no match. It sounds like a cliche, but it was quite literally like driving a cloud. Only thing that sucked is we had the inferior V8, not the LT1, in our's.

I like to daydream about buying one of these and putting a modern GM crate motor in it. Nothing ridiculous, but just enough power to surprise some people on the street. 450-500ish hp.

We ran a lawnmowing business with it. It had no problem pulling a trailer with a couple lawnmowers on it.
Those were great on the highway and got good milage, too. Unfortunately they looked like a bar of soap.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:31 PM   #62
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425hp, rwd. Not that I ever particularly wanted to own one but I guess the concept was kinda cool.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:37 AM   #63
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......

Anything bigger than an AMC Eagle can gtfo.
So much this. We had one for 10 years. I learned to drive in it. It is the reason I got the '02 WRX wagon.
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Old 07-21-2019, 02:17 AM   #64
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I forgot that the Jaguar XF came in a "sportbrake" variant too.



Starts at $71k for a 380 HP supercharged V6.
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Old 07-21-2019, 05:49 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Ditto, I've considered the Tour X but I am still scared of owning a GM product. In fact, I may go check one out today. Mrs_unknown will need a new car in the next year or so.

If /when you check it out let us know your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Super happy with my N54 E61 BMW with a tune and shocks. On the lookout for an E63 Merc, but I could drive my kids around in this for as long as it lasts, easy.
We can blame CAFE for BMW not giving us more wagons. We can retroactively blame CAFE for not getting e30 or e36 wagons it seems. The last gen 5 series wagon was embarrassingly sexy imo but GD CAFE wouldn't let us have it.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:07 AM   #66
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SUV's can rot in hell, It's not like anyone really uses their capabilities.
most SUVs are used to their full potential.

if you're trying to say that most SUVs are designed to do more than drive on highways and navigate potholes, you are misguided.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:17 AM   #67
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Audi RS6 Avant Performance.....completely unrealistic dream car for me.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:12 AM   #68
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I still think people's the average americans ****ty consumer habits killed them, not cafe.

Last edited by El Wray; 07-22-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:43 AM   #69
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If /when you check it out let us know your thoughts.
Initial thoughts: Nearly all Buick dealers are closed on Sundays, well, at least the local ones. I stopped by one of the closed ones anyways and checked it out in person. They are sharp looking and the interiors look ok. I think the wifey is gonna stop by today and test drive one.

Quote:
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Audi RS6 Avant Performance.....completely unrealistic dream car for me.
Those are eventually coming to the states right?
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:56 AM   #70
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I would take a V60 R-Design over any SUV/CUV/whateverUV on the market






EDIT: the V90 looks pretty good too:



I often miss my old V70R wagon. It was decently quick, it looked cool, it was fun enough and I could fit SO MUCH STUFF IN IT. Like a hilarious amount of stuff. I could have easily lived in it if I had to


I hate higher CUVs and SUVs not only because of the way they look and their top-heaviness, but also because you can't see past them or around them. It's most annoying when they're parked beside you on both sides in a tight busy parking lot

Last edited by markman; 07-22-2019 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:02 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
Someone mentioned the TourX. Just wanted to say they are beautiful in person. Great looking car. Insane that they can't move them.
Read some owner reviews and you will see why.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:05 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by GrundleJuice View Post
Those were great on the highway and got good milage, too. Unfortunately they looked like a bar of soap.
I would get one if I could find a decent one. Just so to have three seating in the front seat and three in the back seat. I wouldn't need the third row.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:09 AM   #73
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Read some owner reviews and you will see why.
https://jalopnik.com/10-000-miles-ow...ive-1835082720
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:20 AM   #74
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I can't remember where I read the owner reviews, but most owners were complaining of repeat issues that required trips to the dealership, rattling and squeaky interiors, poor gas mileage, lack of interior storage, harsh ride, etc.

Maybe Buick fixed issues after the first year, but maybe not, and that may be why they are not flying off the lots.

Of course, outside of the Outback, which is not really a wagon anymore, none of the other wagon variants are selling like hot cakes anyway.
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Old 07-22-2019, 10:21 AM   #75
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Growing up in the 1970's and 80's, we were definitely a station wagon family. We had an early 70's Vega wagon, a '76 Malibu wagon, and later in the late 80's my parents bought two '78's and a '79 Malibu wagons as basic, cheap, 'safe' transportation for us three teenagers. One of those '78's was a sky blue Classic with wood sides that was in great shape that I would kill for now, but these things were considered disposable and generally without much value after only about 10 years of use. My how times have changed. I think I saw one nearly identical to it on Autotrader recently and it was being sold for like $5k.
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