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Old 10-09-2019, 06:48 PM   #1
currancchs
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Default Where to mount oil accumulator?

Vehicle is a 2006 WRX TR. Was contemplating installing an oil accumulator both to reduce the impact of air being sucked into the pickup during high g cornering (i.e. control surging, as the vehicle will be tracked occasionally), but even more so to be able to lubricate the engine after it has sat for a while, since it is a weekend vehicle for me and is frequently down for a few weeks or longer at a time while I'm working on it (and also partly for the increased oil capacity).

The accumulator I am looking at most seriously is the Accusump 1 quart (small, for track duty, but I like the ease of mounting compared to the bigger models and want to keep it in the engine bay or a fender well). Its dimensions are about 3.25x12".

Has anybody mounted one of these on their wrx? If so, where did you mount it and how did it work out?

Thanks for reading!
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:47 PM   #2
KillerBMotorsport
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Do yourself a favor and spend your money on something that will actually provide a benefit. If you're only tracking a couple times a year you likely are not going to be applying enough lateral load to compromise the OEM setup. Once you have some decent suspension, tires and track experience (more than occasionally) you can approach the limits of the stock pan. Beyond that, our performance pan will provide far more reliable oil supply than an accusump. You'll be good to ~1.6G sustained, which is really at a high level of track experience, slicks, severely modified suspension and aero.

The car sitting for a few weeks or even months is not going to be an issue if you use an OEM filter and decent oil. The filter's backflow valve will keep oil in suspension, 'primed' in the engine.

why do I poo poo on the accusump? For the applications that it's often marketed for, it's not always an ideal scenario. On a Subaru, it's just a poor match. You have to keep in mind the Subaru oil pump flow more oil than many other pump. A lot more actually. Comparable to a racing oil pump to a small block Chevy V8. Why is that bad for an accusump setup? Because it simply does no provide anywhere near enough pressure and flow. But wait, there's more... When pressure is restored, the accusump will recharge... at the worst possible time, under full load. When a Subaru oil starves it's at the end of a long sweeping turn. Coming out of that turn you ARE going to be at full throttle; full load.

I'd like to hear more about your setup, application, and experience. You're likely not near the point of needing to do anything just yet. If you are, there are better way to address it than an accusump.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:19 AM   #3
currancchs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Do yourself a favor and spend your money on something that will actually provide a benefit. If you're only tracking a couple times a year you likely are not going to be applying enough lateral load to compromise the OEM setup. Once you have some decent suspension, tires and track experience (more than occasionally) you can approach the limits of the stock pan. Beyond that, our performance pan will provide far more reliable oil supply than an accusump. You'll be good to ~1.6G sustained, which is really at a high level of track experience, slicks, severely modified suspension and aero.

The car sitting for a few weeks or even months is not going to be an issue if you use an OEM filter and decent oil. The filter's backflow valve will keep oil in suspension, 'primed' in the engine.

why do I poo poo on the accusump? For the applications that it's often marketed for, it's not always an ideal scenario. On a Subaru, it's just a poor match. You have to keep in mind the Subaru oil pump flow more oil than many other pump. A lot more actually. Comparable to a racing oil pump to a small block Chevy V8. Why is that bad for an accusump setup? Because it simply does no provide anywhere near enough pressure and flow. But wait, there's more... When pressure is restored, the accusump will recharge... at the worst possible time, under full load. When a Subaru oil starves it's at the end of a long sweeping turn. Coming out of that turn you ARE going to be at full throttle; full load.

I'd like to hear more about your setup, application, and experience. You're likely not near the point of needing to do anything just yet. If you are, there are better way to address it than an accusump.
Thanks for the detailed reply, some interesting information there! You are almost certainly correct that my skill level and the vehicle's level of modification do not warrant my looking into an accusump or other oil accumulator. My desire for such a product stems almost entirely from looking for a pre-oiling solution; the other "benefits" of an accumulator were also enticing, although far from the primary reason I was interested in such a setup. I just really liked the idea of having a way to put a quart of pressurized oil through the system just prior to startup, especially after it has sat for a bit.

Regarding oil, I run Rotella T6 5w40 and K&N filters (I like that they have a place to safety wire the filters on - got used to doing this on a track bike, where it was required) and change at least every 3k miles, so probably no worries there.

Regarding modifications, the engine is stock, internally (as far as I know, I am at least the 6th owner and it seems to have been worked on by quite a few different mechanics), but has a larger-than-stock turbo (TD05-20G) running a (very) mild open source tune (I am learning tuning on this car as I go, getting there). Total modification list follows:
1. TD05-20G Turbo
2. Grimmspeed 3 Port Boost Control Solenoid
3. Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump (GSS342G3-400791)
4. 3’’ Catless DP with Wideband O2 Sensor Bung
5. Injen Cold Air Intake (CAI) with Gauze Type Cleanable Filter
6. eBay 3’’ Turbo Inlet Pipe (TIP)
7. Killer B Oil Pickup
8. Open Source (OS) Tune (ECU Flash/ROM Raider)
9. AEM 30-4110 Digital Wideband UEGO Gauge
10. Innovate MTX-D Oil Temperature and Pressure Gauge (temp sensor bung welded into oil pan, pressure from galley plug below alternator, just after pump)
11. AEM 30-4408 Digital Boost Gauge
12. SMY Clustermaker Dual Gauge Pod (replaces factory instrument cluster, takes 52mm (std.) gauges)
13. Raceland Ultimo Adjustable Coilovers
14. EBC Brakes DP41200R Yellow Stuff Pads for Front (Track/Fast Street Pads – Good Cold Performance)
15. EBC Brakes GD972 Front Rotors (Dimpled, Slotted)
16. EBC Brakes DP4826R Yellow Stuff Pads for Rear (Track/Fast Street Pads – Good Cold Performance)
17. EBC Brakes GD7409 Rear Rotors (Dimpled, Slotted)
18. Aftermarket Rims
19. Cobb Accessport (Married to a 2005 Subaru WRX STi – Used for Monitoring ONLY)
20. Kenwood KDC-X493 Head Unit
21. IA Tuning Front Speaker Spacers (for window clearance)
22. 6.5’’ Infiniti Reference Speakers (REF6522IX)
23. HID Headlights with 9011 (HIR) Halogen Capsule for High Beams from 2006 WRX STi (with leveling motors, harness, and switch)
24. Block Heater
25. Neutral Safety Switch Delete
26. Test Mode Switch
27. ABS Switch

Have a set of 750cc injectors that really need to go in to lower my IDC, but want to get scaling on my MAF dialed in before that. Should probably also get some better coilovers and a better TMIC (at least) for track duty...

Anyways, sounds like I might be going overboard with just using an accusump for pre-oiling, especially on an engine with stock internals. Thanks for taking the time to respond though!

P.s. your oil pickup is confidence-inspiring compared to the stock unit, thanks!
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:06 AM   #4
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^if you just want it for pre-start pressure then a manual valve will alleviate those issues killerb pointed out. That's why guys have them mounted in the cab, but it would still work in the bay, just more annoying.
And it's purpose is the same purpose as me having a vehicle with 15.5" carbon ceramic rotors and 6 piston calipers, JUST because it looks cool.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:58 AM   #5
currancchs
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^Definitely would be a conversation starter with people who haven't been around race-prepped vehicles, as I'm sure your brakes are!

Forgot to mention in my previous post, one of my reasons for preferring something like an Accusump to the Killer B pan (which I would also love to have, but do not need): In general, prefer to buy universal parts that can be transferred to my next project; I am much stingier with vehicle-specific performance parts.
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Old 10-10-2019, 12:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
why do I poo poo on the accusump?
Worth commenting on the other marketed feature - cold start oil pressure. Totally worthless in this sense as it works no better than the tried-and-true fuel pump switch and cranking using a jumper battery until the oil light goes out.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:18 PM   #7
KillerBMotorsport
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No problem on the response. I completely understand the mentality for wanting to save money, but the downside to universal parts is that they may work good (usually not great) in some applications, but that generally does not translate to all applications. Accusump as an example for well on many other application, but not so much on the Subaru stuff.

I think you are really overthinking the pre-oiling. On a Subaru a device like an accusump is beneficial if you're swapping out turbos regularly and don't want the hassle of priming them before startup. Besides that the Subaru engines don't loose prime after they've been started. Even after oil changes, they prime very quickly. The only time it ever can be an issue (and this is fairly rare) is when you are first starting up a completely new engine that has no had oil cycled through it. In THAT case, I highly recommend removing all plugs (to eliminate load on all the crank bearings and increase cranking speed), holding the throttle to the floor and cranking until you see oil come out of the turbo supply line. If the oil pump was properly inspected and assembled with assembly lube it should prime in less than 5 seconds.

I can't not touch the K&N Oil filter comment... Don't use it. The OEM filters work exceptionally well for 99.98% of applications out there. There is no flow, pressure, or filtration issues. They have the proper bypass valve (K&N definitely does not) and they are one of few filters available that actually have the correct specs for the way the engine was designed. For example, that K&N filters down to 90 microns because it's a 'high flow race filter' and as such it should be used on applications where the oil is being changed after every event or every drag strip pass. NOT for driving thousands of miles. The OEM filter goes down to 5 micron filtration. Many magnitudes difference in filtration and the K&N provides no benefit to when the system flow or pressure output will be.

On the Rotella, get an oil analysis done at your oil changes. They are like $30 and will tell you if the oil you are using is working well for your specific environment, engine (build, wear levels, etc...), driving style, etc. Oil is not a one size fits all product, especially on these engines. Subarus are oil temperamental. They are not like a Honda where as long as you don't put sand in the oil you're good My number one gauge recommendation is always oil temp because of how these engines do not like to tolerate excessively cold oil, and getting the oil up to temp often takes longer than you'd expect.
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
Worth commenting on the other marketed feature - cold start oil pressure. Totally worthless in this sense as it works no better than the tried-and-true fuel pump switch and cranking using a jumper battery until the oil light goes out.
You don't even need to pull the fuel pump switch, just floor it and crank. When you floor it at startup it will not inject fuel. This is part of the factory's 'flood clearing procedure'
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
You don't even need to pull the fuel pump switch, just floor it and crank. When you floor it at startup it will not inject fuel. This is part of the factory's 'flood clearing procedure'
Made the mistake of assuming this feature existed on a 1994 Corolla not too long ago. Was actually impressed by how quickly it built RPMs from a completely cold start! No apparent damage done in that case (sold the vehicle about 10k miles after that occurrence, with about 308k miles on it, this past spring).

I personally prefer a switch (I just pull the ignition fuse, mostly because I am already using all of my blank switch spots for other switches already) to clear flood mode, just to make things more idiot proof (I'm concerned that a slight letup on the pedal would result in the car starting prior to oil pressure being built). Pulling the ignition fuse also gives me a chance to move my oil pressure fuse tap (gauge is electronic) to the ignition fuse so that I can get a reading during cranking (ordinarily it's fed by my cigarette lighter fuse, which is disabled during cranking).

Good tip though!
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:03 PM   #10
currancchs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
No problem on the response. I completely understand the mentality for wanting to save money, but the downside to universal parts is that they may work good (usually not great) in some applications, but that generally does not translate to all applications. Accusump as an example for well on many other application, but not so much on the Subaru stuff.

I think you are really overthinking the pre-oiling. On a Subaru a device like an accusump is beneficial if you're swapping out turbos regularly and don't want the hassle of priming them before startup. Besides that the Subaru engines don't loose prime after they've been started. Even after oil changes, they prime very quickly. The only time it ever can be an issue (and this is fairly rare) is when you are first starting up a completely new engine that has no had oil cycled through it. In THAT case, I highly recommend removing all plugs (to eliminate load on all the crank bearings and increase cranking speed), holding the throttle to the floor and cranking until you see oil come out of the turbo supply line. If the oil pump was properly inspected and assembled with assembly lube it should prime in less than 5 seconds.

I can't not touch the K&N Oil filter comment... Don't use it. The OEM filters work exceptionally well for 99.98% of applications out there. There is no flow, pressure, or filtration issues. They have the proper bypass valve (K&N definitely does not) and they are one of few filters available that actually have the correct specs for the way the engine was designed. For example, that K&N filters down to 90 microns because it's a 'high flow race filter' and as such it should be used on applications where the oil is being changed after every event or every drag strip pass. NOT for driving thousands of miles. The OEM filter goes down to 5 micron filtration. Many magnitudes difference in filtration and the K&N provides no benefit to when the system flow or pressure output will be.

On the Rotella, get an oil analysis done at your oil changes. They are like $30 and will tell you if the oil you are using is working well for your specific environment, engine (build, wear levels, etc...), driving style, etc. Oil is not a one size fits all product, especially on these engines. Subarus are oil temperamental. They are not like a Honda where as long as you don't put sand in the oil you're good My number one gauge recommendation is always oil temp because of how these engines do not like to tolerate excessively cold oil, and getting the oil up to temp often takes longer than you'd expect.
Thank you for taking the time to provide some additional information, it is very much appreciated! You make good points concerning generic v. universal parts and my overthinking of pre-oiling. Being a project car, I've had both the turbo and oil pump off in the past year, which is also part of my reason for thinking about a priming solution, but I do not anticipate needing to pull either anytime in the near future, so turning the engine over with plugs and fuel/spark disabled (i.e. what I have already been doing) sounds like it would achieve my goals without going overboard and introducing new failure points.

Also, had no idea regarding the filtering capability (or lack thereof) of the K&N units, I really just liked the pre-drilled nut on the bottom for safety wiring and assumed the filter filtered well based on the name. Makes sense though that a "performance" filter might sacrifice filtration for flow, which obviously is not something that makes sense for me given my usage of the vehicle. I'll switch at the next opportunity to the stock filter.

Regarding the oil analysis, that sounds like a good idea and is actually something I've considered in the past, but have never got around to doing for one reason or another.

p.s. already have an oil temp/pressure gauge - it is very surprising how long the oil takes to heat up, at least 10 minutes in mild weather (I'm in NH) to register on my temp gauge (Innovate MTX-D - minimum reading that will register is 120F), longer when very cold. Does not correlate well with coolant temp, which comes up much more quickly, especially when going by the stock gauge, which seems to have a very wide range of temperatures that result in the needle being somewhere near mid-range.

Last edited by currancchs; 10-10-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:33 PM   #11
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currancchs View Post
Also, had no idea regarding the filtering capability (or lack thereof) of the K&N units, I really just liked the pre-drilled nut on the bottom for safety wiring and assumed the filter filtered well based on the name.
Having been in the Subaru performance game since 2005 and working with well over 300 shops, race teams and so on, I've seen a filter come off exactly 0 times. From my experience with motorcycles, they like to safety wire everything. I would assume that is because the drive has much fewer safety items between himself and everything else. The only time you see it necessary or required are going to be in certain (higher up) race classes and if you're doing off-road rally (more for keeping stuff together, not a requirement).

Quote:
Originally Posted by currancchs View Post
p.s. already have an oil temp/pressure gauge - it is very surprising how long the oil takes to heat up, at least 10 minutes in mild weather (I'm in NH) to register on my temp gauge (Innovate MTX-D - minimum reading that will register is 120F), longer when very cold. Does not correlate well with coolant temp, which comes up much more quickly, especially when going by the stock gauge, which seems to have a very wide range of temperatures that result in the needle being somewhere near mid-range.
If your location is correct, I grew up and spent my first 34 years right there in Milford NH. So yeah I know cold too Everyone is always shocked at how long it takes for the oil to get up to temp on these cars, and it can be more damaging that oil that is too hot too. For a turbocharged car, the oil temps on the suby engines tends to run pretty cold. Anyone who relies on the OEM coolant gauge (or any coolant gauge for that matter) as feedback for when the engine is warm and ready for boost, will surely spin a rod bearing eventually
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:07 PM   #12
currancchs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Having been in the Subaru performance game since 2005 and working with well over 300 shops, race teams and so on, I've seen a filter come off exactly 0 times. From my experience with motorcycles, they like to safety wire everything. I would assume that is because the drive has much fewer safety items between himself and everything else. The only time you see it necessary or required are going to be in certain (higher up) race classes and if you're doing off-road rally (more for keeping stuff together, not a requirement).
Good to hear that I have nothing to worry about there, thanks for sharing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
If your location is correct, I grew up and spent my first 34 years right there in Milford NH. So yeah I know cold too Everyone is always shocked at how long it takes for the oil to get up to temp on these cars, and it can be more damaging that oil that is too hot too. For a turbocharged car, the oil temps on the suby engines tends to run pretty cold. Anyone who relies on the OEM coolant gauge (or any coolant gauge for that matter) as feedback for when the engine is warm and ready for boost, will surely spin a rod bearing eventually
Location is accurate - small world! I'll actually be heading to Milford for their "Great Pumpkin Festival" this weekend, will be my daughter's first time there (she's barely 2 months old)!
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:56 PM   #13
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currancchs View Post
Location is accurate - small world! I'll actually be heading to Milford for their "Great Pumpkin Festival" this weekend, will be my daughter's first time there (she's barely 2 months old)!
I'm so jealous! We have nothing like that down here and the colors are nowhere near as good. Lots of good photo ops for the little ones too.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:44 AM   #14
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wix 57712 in black not white and napa gold 7712 filters meets oem Subaru spec

I have worked in the motorcycle roadracing paddock or for national championship organizations for a very long time

k&n filters are becoming banned by most sanctioning bodies after multiple failures (thank the bean counters for that , thinking it was more betterer to have them made in china to increase the profit margin) they were never very good , now they pretty much suck

killer b is skirting round the bushes to avoid a storm of oil related opinions based on misinformation and research and knowledge based on youtube videos and facebook reviews but let me read between the lines for you ....... use something else



yes fall color leaves are pretty , stripper glitter in your oil pan is not

Last edited by motorbykemike; 10-14-2019 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:48 AM   #15
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op

you have pm
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:06 PM   #16
currancchs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbykemike View Post
wix 57712 in black not white and napa gold 7712 filters meets oem Subaru spec

I have worked in the motorcycle roadracing paddock or for national championship organizations for a very long time

k&n filters are becoming banned by most sanctioning bodies after multiple failures (thank the bean counters for that , thinking it was more betterer to have them made in china to increase the profit margin) they were never very good , now they pretty much suck

killer b is skirting round the bushes to avoid a storm of oil related opinions based on misinformation and research and knowledge based on youtube videos and facebook reviews but let me read between the lines for you ....... use something else



yes fall color leaves are pretty , stripper glitter in your oil pan is not
Picked up some OEM Subaru filters yesterday, thanks for the heads up!
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
You don't even need to pull the fuel pump switch, just floor it and crank. When you floor it at startup it will not inject fuel. This is part of the factory's 'flood clearing procedure'
Correct for more than just Subaru, actually! Just be prepared to let off quick if you find out you had a bit of carpet bunched under the pedal and hit 96% throttle.
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