High Compression Frankenstein - Page 3

G.Subramaniam · 12-22-2004, 08:46 PM

bump

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G.Subramaniam · 12-22-2004, 10:44 PM

I have seen claims of
Cams = 15 whp
Port and Polish heads = 20 whp
Headers = 12 whp
and so on

What are the average whp and torque gains expected from
1. Raising CR from 9.7 to 11 ( assuming that heads, cams, catback are already done )
2. Stroking a 2.2L to 2.35 L

Matt Monson · 12-23-2004, 07:54 PM

This is the last time I will say this: YOU CAN GET AN EJ25 SHORTBLOCK FOR $500 OR LESS!!!

For what you are going to pay in labor on the piston swap or the crank swap you can get a 2.5l engine that will make over 11:1 compression with your stock heads on it. What more do you want?

Do your port and polish. Do your cams. Get the headers. But don't spend a read cent on that bottom end. You won't set any HP records and you will spend over $1000 on a shortblock that won't provide any more power than the EJ25 block. I repeat my mantra that I have said over and over around here: OEM IS BEST...*shaking his head and walking away from the thread*

G.Subramaniam · 12-23-2004, 09:11 PM

Ok Matt
you got my attention
What can I salvage from my current 2.2L SOHC. single port heads, MAF

1. Next level racing Air fuel adjustor - Yes / No
2. Hi Flow cat + cat back - Yes / No
3. Underdrive Pulleys - Yes / No
4. ECU - Yes / No
5. Pro ECM chip - - Yes / No
6. Delta Cam Grind #220 - Yes / No
7. Throttle body - Yes / No
8. Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump - - Yes / No
9. MAF Cold Air intake - Yes / No
10. Current Port and Polished 2.2L single port heads - Yes / No

and what is a good source of 2.5L short blocks

Storm · 12-23-2004, 09:13 PM

I have a few (3) EJ25 shortblocks right now. I also have a couple sets of DOHC heads if you're interested.....

Jay Storm

Matt Monson · 12-26-2004, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm

I have a few (3) EJ25 shortblocks right now. I also have a couple sets of DOHC heads if you're interested.....

Jay Storm

Jay,
Can you shoot me a PM with a price and details on one of those EJ25 shortblocks, preferably a phase II one. Today's oil change revealed that my bottom end is farther gone than I had suspected and I am going to need a shortblock sooner than I can get the STi block built with high CR pistons. I can just hear my engine tick tick tick. It is a timebomb counting down to a catastrophic bearing failure...

Storm · 12-26-2004, 01:23 PM

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=Storm

I have one phase II block. I was planning on keeping it, but may deal.

Jay Storm

G.Subramaniam · 12-28-2004, 01:35 PM

I spoke to ccrengines.com on swapping the EJ25 shortblock
and they said that there are 2 specific issues / problems

1. The water jackets on the EJ22 heads dont match to the EJ25 short block

2. The head gaskets on the Ej22 heads dont match to the Ej25 shortblock

CirrusWRX · 12-28-2004, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Subramaniam

I spoke to ccrengines.com on swapping the EJ25 shortblock
and they said that there are 2 specific issues / problems

1. The water jackets on the EJ22 heads dont match to the EJ25 short block

2. The head gaskets on the Ej22 heads dont match to the Ej25 shortblock

That's disappointing, but also somewhat surprising :confusing: I have access to an EJ22 and an EJ25, don't know when I'll have the time to inspect both, but I was almost positive they were the same :shrug!:

Matt Monson · 12-28-2004, 05:00 PM

Well, both blocks are open deck, so the water jackets things is false. And you use the Ej25 head gasket for this swap. The holes in the gasket don't line up prefectly, but they line up good enough. Do you really think it is going to be a problem if lots of guys are running EJ25 heads on EJ22T closed deck blocks with the same alignment issues, and those guys are running 20-30psi and 400+ hp. We are only talking about a measily 200-210chp. It is a non-issue...

G.Subramaniam · 12-28-2004, 05:23 PM

Would a switch to cometic headgaskets be advisable ?

Storm · 12-28-2004, 07:06 PM

Cometic uses the OEM design as far as water/oil passages. The difference is in the construction. Pricewise you could go either way.....I personally would use the Cometic set. And actually am right now.

Jay Storm

greg donovan · 12-28-2004, 08:33 PM

you can have the oem gaskets "cut" to match up better.

Matt Monson · 12-28-2004, 08:47 PM

be sure you are using a phase II block if you go cometic. The phase I pistons clear the deck, and you MUST use the new thick HG for this conversion...

G.Subramaniam · 12-28-2004, 09:03 PM

If I use phase 2 blocks I can use cometic ??
Are cometic thick Head Gaskets ?
Who sells cometic head gaskets ?

Storm · 12-29-2004, 12:31 AM

You can get Cometic gaskets in any thickness you desire. They have (part #s for) OEM thickness(post redesign), Slightly thicker than stock for FI engines as well as thinner for NA and compression raising. To get them, try www.cometic.com for starters. Mention sourcemotorsports and they *may* cut you a little discount....I can't promise that though....Or you can email me with exactly what you want and I'll get them for you, since they're local to me.

Jay Storm
www.sourcemotorsports.com

G.Subramaniam · 12-29-2004, 10:31 AM

For Phase 2 EJ25 short block
what thickness should I get for my NA, High CR application
How thin or how thick can you safely go

Is there a formula between thickness and CR
Thickness = X. CR = Y

Storm · 12-29-2004, 07:49 PM

Subaru EJ25, 100mm bore diameter
C4264HP: .043" "HP" MLS gasket, DOHC 16V <- stock thickness.
H1631027S: .027" MLS DOHC 16V <- You want this set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Subramaniam

For Phase 2 EJ25 short block
what thickness should I get for my NA, High CR application
How thin or how thick can you safely go

Is there a formula between thickness and CR
Thickness = X. CR = Y

Jay Storm

Matt Monson · 12-29-2004, 08:20 PM

Hmmm....Gonna have the engine out of the car next week. Jay, will you see what sort of price you can get me on a thin one for the RS?

G.Subramaniam · 12-29-2004, 09:17 PM

Subaru EJ25, 100mm bore diameter
C4264HP: .043" "HP" MLS gasket, DOHC 16V <- stock thickness.
H1631027S: .027" MLS DOHC 16V <- You want this set.
-----

1. Phase 2 EJ25 are SOHC, so will these fit
2. What is the CR difference between a 0.043" gasket and a 0.027" gasket
3. Is a 'thin' 0.027' gasket safe for NA engines

Storm · 12-29-2004, 11:38 PM

So far the thin ones are working just fine for my NA build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.Subramaniam

Subaru EJ25, 100mm bore diameter
C4264HP: .043" "HP" MLS gasket, DOHC 16V <- stock thickness.
H1631027S: .027" MLS DOHC 16V <- You want this set.
-----

1. Phase 2 EJ25 are SOHC, so will these fit
2. What is the CR difference between a 0.043" gasket and a 0.027" gasket
3. Is a 'thin' 0.027' gasket safe for NA engines

Matt, I can get them for just under $100/pair. I'll talk to my contacts and see if I can get any deal right quick. Gimme a few days since the holiday is here and I'm not sure what their work schedule is.

Jay Storm

G.Subramaniam · 12-30-2004, 10:17 AM

Will the thin ones fit SOHC
your descriptions shows DOHC

Matt Monson · 12-30-2004, 12:19 PM

Awesome. I already bought the OEM ones, but if you can get me some thin metal ones before Saturday the 8th when we rebuild the motor, that would be great.

Storm · 12-30-2004, 09:42 PM

You shouldn't have any problems using the gaskets with SOHC heads. I can inquire though....

Jay Storm

G.Subramaniam · 01-01-2005, 11:41 PM

Bump

12-23-2004, 09:11 PM	#54
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	Ok Matt you got my attention What can I salvage from my current 2.2L SOHC. single port heads, MAF 1. Next level racing Air fuel adjustor - Yes / No 2. Hi Flow cat + cat back - Yes / No 3. Underdrive Pulleys - Yes / No 4. ECU - Yes / No 5. Pro ECM chip - - Yes / No 6. Delta Cam Grind #220 - Yes / No 7. Throttle body - Yes / No 8. Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump - - Yes / No 9. MAF Cold Air intake - Yes / No 10. Current Port and Polished 2.2L single port heads - Yes / No and what is a good source of 2.5L short blocks Last edited by G.Subramaniam; 12-23-2004 at 09:12 PM. Reason: error correction

12-28-2004, 05:23 PM	#61
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	Would a switch to cometic headgaskets be advisable ? Last edited by G.Subramaniam; 12-28-2004 at 05:30 PM. Reason: error correction

12-28-2004, 09:03 PM	#65
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	If I use phase 2 blocks I can use cometic ?? Are cometic thick Head Gaskets ? Who sells cometic head gaskets ? Last edited by G.Subramaniam; 12-28-2004 at 09:03 PM. Reason: error correction

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12-22-2004, 08:46 PM	#51
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	bump * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

12-22-2004, 10:44 PM	#52
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	I have seen claims of Cams = 15 whp Port and Polish heads = 20 whp Headers = 12 whp and so on What are the average whp and torque gains expected from 1. Raising CR from 9.7 to 11 ( assuming that heads, cams, catback are already done ) 2. Stroking a 2.2L to 2.35 L

12-23-2004, 07:54 PM	#53
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	This is the last time I will say this: YOU CAN GET AN EJ25 SHORTBLOCK FOR $500 OR LESS!!! For what you are going to pay in labor on the piston swap or the crank swap you can get a 2.5l engine that will make over 11:1 compression with your stock heads on it. What more do you want? Do your port and polish. Do your cams. Get the headers. But don't spend a read cent on that bottom end. You won't set any HP records and you will spend over $1000 on a shortblock that won't provide any more power than the EJ25 block. I repeat my mantra that I have said over and over around here: OEM IS BEST...shaking his head and walking away from the thread

12-23-2004, 09:13 PM	#55
Storm Scooby Guru Member#: 5218 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: SAUL'S Motorsports Vehicle: 96L Most Over- Developed Beater	I have a few (3) EJ25 shortblocks right now. I also have a couple sets of DOHC heads if you're interested..... Jay Storm

12-26-2004, 01:23 PM	#57
Storm Scooby Guru Member#: 5218 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: SAUL'S Motorsports Vehicle: 96L Most Over- Developed Beater	http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=Storm I have one phase II block. I was planning on keeping it, but may deal. Jay Storm

12-28-2004, 01:35 PM	#58
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	I spoke to ccrengines.com on swapping the EJ25 shortblock and they said that there are 2 specific issues / problems 1. The water jackets on the EJ22 heads dont match to the EJ25 short block 2. The head gaskets on the Ej22 heads dont match to the Ej25 shortblock

12-28-2004, 05:00 PM	#60
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	Well, both blocks are open deck, so the water jackets things is false. And you use the Ej25 head gasket for this swap. The holes in the gasket don't line up prefectly, but they line up good enough. Do you really think it is going to be a problem if lots of guys are running EJ25 heads on EJ22T closed deck blocks with the same alignment issues, and those guys are running 20-30psi and 400+ hp. We are only talking about a measily 200-210chp. It is a non-issue...

12-28-2004, 07:06 PM	#62
Storm Scooby Guru Member#: 5218 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: SAUL'S Motorsports Vehicle: 96L Most Over- Developed Beater	Cometic uses the OEM design as far as water/oil passages. The difference is in the construction. Pricewise you could go either way.....I personally would use the Cometic set. And actually am right now. Jay Storm

12-28-2004, 08:33 PM	#63
greg donovan Scooby Specialist Member#: 60743 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Fargo, ND Vehicle: '95 Impreza L dirty and on jack stands	you can have the oem gaskets "cut" to match up better.

12-28-2004, 08:47 PM	#64
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	be sure you are using a phase II block if you go cometic. The phase I pistons clear the deck, and you MUST use the new thick HG for this conversion...

12-29-2004, 12:31 AM	#66
Storm Scooby Guru Member#: 5218 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: SAUL'S Motorsports Vehicle: 96L Most Over- Developed Beater	You can get Cometic gaskets in any thickness you desire. They have (part #s for) OEM thickness(post redesign), Slightly thicker than stock for FI engines as well as thinner for NA and compression raising. To get them, try www.cometic.com for starters. Mention sourcemotorsports and they may cut you a little discount....I can't promise that though....Or you can email me with exactly what you want and I'll get them for you, since they're local to me. Jay Storm www.sourcemotorsports.com

12-29-2004, 10:31 AM	#67
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	For Phase 2 EJ25 short block what thickness should I get for my NA, High CR application How thin or how thick can you safely go Is there a formula between thickness and CR Thickness = X. CR = Y

12-29-2004, 08:20 PM	#69
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	Hmmm....Gonna have the engine out of the car next week. Jay, will you see what sort of price you can get me on a thin one for the RS?

12-29-2004, 09:17 PM	#70
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	Subaru EJ25, 100mm bore diameter C4264HP: .043" "HP" MLS gasket, DOHC 16V <- stock thickness. H1631027S: .027" MLS DOHC 16V <- You want this set. ----- 1. Phase 2 EJ25 are SOHC, so will these fit 2. What is the CR difference between a 0.043" gasket and a 0.027" gasket 3. Is a 'thin' 0.027' gasket safe for NA engines

12-30-2004, 10:17 AM	#72
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	Will the thin ones fit SOHC your descriptions shows DOHC

12-30-2004, 12:19 PM	#73
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	Awesome. I already bought the OEM ones, but if you can get me some thin metal ones before Saturday the 8th when we rebuild the motor, that would be great.

12-30-2004, 09:42 PM	#74
Storm Scooby Guru Member#: 5218 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: SAUL'S Motorsports Vehicle: 96L Most Over- Developed Beater	You shouldn't have any problems using the gaskets with SOHC heads. I can inquire though.... Jay Storm

01-01-2005, 11:41 PM	#75
G.Subramaniam Scooby Newbie Member#: 64528 Join Date: Jun 2004	Bump