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Old 06-02-2022, 05:12 PM   #1
SubaDuba420
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Default Fords E-Future

Ford CEO sees electric vehicle price war as EV costs decline
https://apnews.com/article/technolog...5add59c514346e
Quote:
Ford’s chief executive says he expects the cost of building electric vehicles to fall to the point that in coming years automakers will be battling each other for sales of EVs priced around $25,000.

CEO Jim Farley told the Bernstein Strategic Decisions Conference on Wednesday that the $25,000 price tag will democratize EVs. Materials to build that vehicle will cost around $18,000, he said.

“So I believe there will be our industry is definitely heading to a huge price war,” Farley said.....

Ford also plans to cut distribution costs, which amount to $2,000 per vehicle more than Tesla, the world’s electric vehicle sales leader, he said. That can be done largely by cutting the expense of keeping a large supply on dealer lots, and cutting advertising costs.

The first of the next-generation electric vehicles at Ford will be ready in 2026, Farley said, as Ford refits older factories to build EVs and builds three new battery plants and one new assembly plant in Kentucky and Tennessee, he said. By then, the company will have lined up the needed raw materials and have new battery chemistry, he said.

“It’s going to take a little while, but I’m putting pressure on myself to get to making money on these vehicles,” Farley said. “It’s going to be a good investment.”

In March, Ford said it would split its electric vehicle and internal combustion operations into two individual businesses to accelerate new technology.
AND

Ford wants to sell EVs online only and at a set price

Quote:
Ford said that it wants to restructure its dealership model to sell its EVs online only and at a non-negotiable price to match Tesla’s profit margins.

“I feel like when that second quarter last year profit came out for Tesla and they showed like a $15,000 premium, it totally changed my world,” CEO Jim Farley said at the Bernstein Strategic Decisions Conference on Wednesday. “It was an epiphany. It was like the angel sung, it was like, oh! my god, we can make more money on EVs than our ICE.”......

Farley said he expects massive consolidation among dealers, suppliers and automakers as the industry begins building more EVs. His comments come at a precarious time for car prices due to the supply chain crunch and instances of dealerships gouging customers for new vehicles.

In the future, dealers won’t hold any inventory, he added. Instead, the vehicles will ship directly to the customer, with remote pickup and delivery.

“Their business will change a lot,” Farley said. “There will be a lot of winners and losers, and I believe, consolidation.”

He did not give a timeframe for the shift to online sales or elaborate on Ford’s plans for its dealer network.....

“It’s exactly what we have to do on the retail side,” Farley said. “We’ve got to go to a non-negotiated price. We’ve got to go 100% online so that the inventory goes directly to the customer with 100% remote pickup and delivery.”


Farley said Ford is working with dealers to transition into the future.

“I believe on the retail side, we can do things post-warranty and remix the marketing spend to have a better experience,” he said. “I think our dealers can do it, but the standards are going to be brutal. They’re going to be very different than today.”
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Old 06-02-2022, 05:24 PM   #2
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RIP Stealerships
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Old 06-02-2022, 06:18 PM   #3
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I mean, I can't wait to see it; as this has been needed for ages. It's probably worth saying though, NADA has a *lot* of political power and they are going to fight this tooth and nail... so I'm not holding my breath in the near term.
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Old 06-02-2022, 06:57 PM   #4
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That's going to be an ugly and expensive battle with the dealership industry. I see good and bad in this. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Old 06-02-2022, 08:04 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by murrdogg24 View Post
RIP Stealerships
**** dealerships, especially Ford dealerships. Ford has some vehicles I'd actually be interested in(Bronco, Lightning, Mach E), but I have no desire to work with their ****bag dealers out here who all play the above MSRP game, even outside of the craziness created by COVID. I get their ads coming across my Facebook feed for Broncos and they still want $20k over list for a damn Bronco.

Ford won't get my business as long as I have to work with their scum of the earth dealership network.

Let's cut out the middle man. Ford makes more of a margin while customers can get vehicles cheaper and we don't have to deal with this bastard economy created by these dealers colluding together(you know this is happening....) to keep the prices of desirable cars artificially high. It's starting to sound like FoMoCo is tiring of their dealers' **** too.

Last edited by FaastLegacy; 06-02-2022 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 06-03-2022, 02:18 PM   #6
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With as much pull as dealerships have in local politics this should be interesting.

They do need to provide a way to look at and drive a car. Not ordering a $50k vehicle like I do a $30 item on Amazon.

They will need to speed up manufacturing and delivery or have some accommodation for those that need a car. I'd prefer not to rent a car for 8 weeks if mine is totaled.
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Old 06-03-2022, 02:18 PM   #7
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Double Post

Last edited by Genericuser1; 06-04-2022 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Double Post
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post
**** dealerships, especially Ford dealerships. Ford has some vehicles I'd actually be interested in(Bronco, Lightning, Mach E), but I have no desire to work with their ****bag dealers out here who all play the above MSRP game, even outside of the craziness created by COVID. I get their ads coming across my Facebook feed for Broncos and they still want $20k over list for a damn Bronco.

Ford won't get my business as long as I have to work with their scum of the earth dealership network.

Let's cut out the middle man. Ford makes more of a margin while customers can get vehicles cheaper and we don't have to deal with this bastard economy created by these dealers colluding together(you know this is happening....) to keep the prices of desirable cars artificially high. It's starting to sound like FoMoCo is tiring of their dealers' **** too.
Testify. The Ford dealers around here are among the worst for markups. Normally, I'd say that an effort like this by a manufacturer would dissapate like a fart in the wind, but enough people (myself included) are pissed off enough to hold our elected representatives accountable for siding with the dealer lobby during the eventual showdown. Show me representative who backs the dealer lobby over their constituents and I'll show you an arseclown who's getting voted out in the next election.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:11 PM   #9
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double post
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Diz View Post
Show me representative who backs the dealer lobby over their constituents and I'll show you an arseclown who's getting voted out in the next election.
I mean... that's what politicians do. They support lobbies who give them money. Then, when it comes time to re-elect an official, constituents forget about all that and vote for the candidate who is "not the other party". So they end up with the lobby loving knob schlober.
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Old 06-04-2022, 08:45 AM   #11
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So they end up with the lobby loving knob schlober.
LOL. I hear what you're saying, but inflation is a hot topic and it would be political suicide to side with the dealers on this one...assuming people have long enough memories to hold their elected reps accountable during the next election cycle, which is definitely not a given. Regardless, it's going to be interesting to watch.
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Old 06-04-2022, 08:33 PM   #12
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I hate to break it guys, but there's far more important local issues than politicians discussing ADM on a vehicle. Let's put things perspective.
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Old 06-24-2022, 01:28 PM   #13
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Ford F-150 Lightning buyers face a no-resale agreement
Dealers don't want buyers flipping their new trucks — and undercutting dealer markups
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/06/22/...sale-agreement

Quote:
Another day, another story of dealers looking for ways to gouge as much money as possible out of Ford F-150 Lightning customers. Markups and price change shenanigans are well documented at this point, but now we’re learning of a unique no-resale condition some dealers are placing on the trucks.

Carscoops confirmed details of the policy with Ford. The automaker noted that dealers requested the change, but the practice is still subject to local laws, and dealers are not required to implement the policy. With the truck’s popularity, dealers don’t want to leave any money on the table, so buyers flipping their new electric pickup for way more money is bad news.

Ford’s communication with dealers offered language to create the policy: “Purchaser hereby agrees that it will not sell, offer to sell, or otherwise transfer any ownership interest in the Vehicle prior to the first anniversary of the date hereof. Purchaser further agrees that Seller may seek injunctive relief to prevent the transfer of the title of the Vehicle or demand payment from Purchase of all value received as consideration for the sale or transfer.”
AND

Ford eliminates end-of-lease purchase option for EVs
F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E, and E-Transit must return to dealers
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/06/24/...ased-vehicles/

Quote:
Ford appears to have designated June as the month for realigning customer rights. A few days ago came word that dealers would be able to insert language into sales contract for the F-150 Lightning prohibiting buyers from selling the electric pickup for one year after purchase. Dealers wouldn't need to do this, but they could. Over on the leasing side, Cars Direct discovered a letter Ford sent to dealers eliminating the end-of-lease purchase option for the F-150 Lightning, Mustang Mach-E, and E-Transit van. In the plainest language possible, Ford's new prohibition tells lessees, "you do not have the option to purchase the Vehicle at the end of the lease term." The change took effect on June 15 in 37 states and will be enacted in the remaining 14 states plus the District of Columbia by the last quarter of this year.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post
**** dealerships, especially Ford dealerships. Ford has some vehicles I'd actually be interested in(Bronco, Lightning, Mach E), but I have no desire to work with their ****bag dealers out here who all play the above MSRP game, even outside of the craziness created by COVID. I get their ads coming across my Facebook feed for Broncos and they still want $20k over list for a damn Bronco.

Ford won't get my business as long as I have to work with their scum of the earth dealership network.

Let's cut out the middle man. Ford makes more of a margin while customers can get vehicles cheaper and we don't have to deal with this bastard economy created by these dealers colluding together(you know this is happening....) to keep the prices of desirable cars artificially high. It's starting to sound like FoMoCo is tiring of their dealers' **** too.
Are you certain about that though?!?! Ford could just price them higher to get ALL the money and the "set" price screws your ability to negotiate one cheaper. Has the Bronco been on sale before the COVID and current issues?
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:53 PM   #15
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Are you certain about that though?!?! Ford could just price them higher to get ALL the money and the "set" price screws your ability to negotiate one cheaper. Has the Bronco been on sale before the COVID and current issues?
It’s possible Ford could do that but the F150 (ICE) has been a massive volume vehicle for Ford and I’d assume they would want the same for the EV. Ford will price it where they can meet the demand they need to hit volume numbers. The more they get on the roads, the more it’s recognized, the it continues to get purchased. Additionally, as Chevy / GMC releases theirs, pricing Landscspe will be come more competitive. I doubt Ford wants to lose the title as having the vehicle with highest sales. Up until covid, I think the F150 had more sales than the next two or three vehicles combined.
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:33 AM   #16
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The one thing I love about the F150 lightning is that it exists.

Tesla got all the hype up about their stupid cybertruck and yet here ford is, actually delivering vehicles. I feel like Tesla is part pyramid scheme, part business. Musk builds up a company based on a pyramid scheme, but then actually produces some vehicles. So he builds the pyramid higher on hopes and dreams. Will he ever deliver?
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Old 06-27-2022, 12:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
.....Musk builds up a company based on a pyramid scheme, but then actually produces some vehicles. So he builds the pyramid higher on hopes and dreams. Will he ever deliver?


Quote:
“Both Berlin and Austin factories are gigantic money furnaces right now. It’s like a giant roaring sound, which is the sound of money on fire,” Musk said. “Berlin and Austin are losing billions of dollars right now because there's a ton of expense and hardly any output.”




Probably, because one of the great things about being the worlds richest man, he always has the option of personally bailing himself out
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Old 06-27-2022, 03:28 PM   #18
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Probably, because one of the great things about being the worlds richest man, he always has the option of personally bailing himself out
I mean, his wealth is tied to his companies... he doesn't own paypal anymore, spacex is probably just bleeding money, and Tesla's valuation is based on a pyramid scheme that will collapse if they can't deliver on the promises that the investors bought into.

Meanwhile more and more legacy automakers are releasing EV's and catching up to Tesla in sales. Oh and fit and finish on those doesn't include major components secured with home-depot floor trim.
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Old 06-28-2022, 01:05 AM   #19
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I mean, his wealth is tied to his companies... he doesn't own paypal anymore, spacex is probably just bleeding money, and Tesla's valuation is based on a pyramid scheme that will collapse if they can't deliver on the promises that the investors bought into.

Meanwhile more and more legacy automakers are releasing EV's and catching up to Tesla in sales. Oh and fit and finish on those doesn't include major components secured with home-depot floor trim.
He never “owned” PayPal. He created X.com which merged with Confinity (Peter thiel cofounder” which became PayPal. Elon was forced out of his role and replaced by Thiel which was eventually sold to EBay.

Musk also didn’t create Tesla although I would say the success could be credited to him.
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Old 06-28-2022, 01:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
He never “owned” PayPal. He created X.com which merged with Confinity (Peter thiel cofounder” which became PayPal. Elon was forced out of his role and replaced by Thiel which was eventually sold to EBay.

Musk also didn’t create Tesla although I would say the success could be credited to him.
I really don't care the specifics of his relationships with the companies. His wealth is directly tied to them.
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Old 07-06-2022, 06:00 AM   #21
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Musk never owned paypal - by himself. As a founder though the merger, he had part ownership. So, saying he was AN owner would be true. THE owner, not true. Saying "he doesn't own PayPal anymore" is a lazy, but valid statement, but could be made better by saying "he doesn't have part ownership of PayPal anymore". (He doesn't even have stock in it)

Stop playing ****ing semantics, the both of you on something completely unrelated to the topic at hand (paypal is irrelevant to this discussion). You're both right. Move on.
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Old 07-11-2022, 03:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
Ford CEO sees electric vehicle price war as EV costs decline
https://apnews.com/article/technolog...5add59c514346e


AND

Ford wants to sell EVs online only and at a set price
If you want peace, prepare for war
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Old 09-20-2022, 02:26 PM   #23
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Ford sets rules for dealers selling electric cars: Fixed no-haggle pricing
Getting certified to sell EVs means a pledge of no more dealer treachery
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/09/14/...aggle-pricing/
Quote:
Are you tired of reading about shady dealers marking up cars and taking advantage of buyers? Apparently, Ford is, too. According to The Drive, The Blue Oval issued a warning at its annual dealer conference, telling franchisees that they have until the end of October to decide whether to commit to fixed, no haggle pricing or be cut out of selling EVs.

Ford is far from the only auto brand watching its dealers make up their own pricing, but it’s been one of the quickest to act on the issue. Earlier this year, the automaker split its business operations, with one part of the company focusing solely on electric vehicles and powertrain development and the other continuing Ford’s gas vehicle development. If dealers want to sell EVs, they’ll have to opt into the rules for Ford Model E (the brand’s electric business arm) — one of which is a commitment to transparent, no-haggle pricing.

Once they’ve agreed to the terms and conditions, Ford dealers become Model E Certified. The automaker views this as an opportunity to push more of its network toward a model that Tesla and other startups adopted. Many younger buyers favor direct sales, as it limits the in-person time required to buy a car and makes the purchase process easier for many.

This is undoubtedly an annoyance for dealers, but they’ve long been asked to make investments to promote new products and initiatives. The shift to electrification has required the franchisees to make even more significant commitments, and in some cases, sizable financial investments, to meet automakers’ new requirements. Automakers, including Ford, have provided off-ramps for dealers not interested in making the switch to EVs. Cadillac saw an exodus of more than a third of its dealer network after it issued new rules for electric vehicle sales.

Ford will likely see some attrition with this policy change, but it’s offering dealers an opportunity to “spend more to make more,” so to speak. Stores already committed to selling EVs can promise to invest an additional amount – up to half a million dollars – to build additional chargers and invest in other equipment. Those that do can earn an “Elite” designation on their Model E certification and are not subject to allocation limits and other speedbumps that other certified dealers see.
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Old 09-20-2022, 05:11 PM   #24
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Ford is doing great:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...-11-years.html

Quote:
Ford Motor's stock suffered its worst day in more than 11 years.

Shares of Ford closed Tuesday at $13.09 apiece, down by 12.3%.

The losses come after the automaker pre-released part of its third-quarter earnings report and warned investors of $1 billion in unexpected supplier costs.
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Old 09-20-2022, 08:23 PM   #25
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Find a Ford dealership with intregrity. Ordered my F350 dually Nov '21, purchased May '22. Paid MSRP Nov '21 price, between Nov-May Ford raised the base price by $3K, the salesman/dealer I worked with honored the Nov '21 MSRP price.
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