Are SPT springs for wagon and sedan the same as regards fitment?

gtguy · 02-25-2002, 09:59 AM

I imagine they will have different spring rates, but then again, maybe not. Anyhow, I just want to know if they will fit...that is, sedan springs fitting a wagon.

Anyone?

Kevin

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ANZAC_1915 · 02-25-2002, 10:24 AM

Remember you can't buy them loose. You get a strut and a spring. I am not sure the sedan struts fit the wagon correctly.

Glenn

BIGSKYWRX · 02-25-2002, 11:23 AM

I would guess that the springs would be interchangable (if available seperately) as the STi "sport" springs list one part number for GG and GD. Spring rate differences in the SPT setup I don't know. Struts in the rear may be a problem, we know there is from GC to GD. GG to GD rear would be useful to know.

I know the dealer lists them as a set (SPT), but lets say you blew a strut- could they get a replacement? Probably. I'm thinking if someone were to have a good working relationship w/ his parts mgr. it would be worth asking. I'm having my parts mgr look into a piece (nothing to do w/ suspension) that isn't supposed to be available on it's own and it looks promising so far.

Big Sky

gtguy · 02-25-2002, 12:51 PM

I know someone who has a sedan set for sale, and I'm going to buy them, if they fit the wagon. I don't see why they wouldn't, frankly. The only differences between the two cars are the sedan's track width which necessitates a different strut mounting point. But the springs themselves, outside of spring rates, shouldn't be any different. I'd be putting them on the stock struts for an interesting experiment. Might be bouncy, might not, but given that the stock springs are too soft for the stock struts...

Kevin

no_rex_yet · 02-25-2002, 02:23 PM

What about spring rates? I would think that the sedan and wagon have different rates due to the increased weight in the rear of the wagon. They may fit, but likely won't be optimal.

ANZAC_1915 · 02-25-2002, 06:05 PM

STi are a lot smarter than you are. They spent a bunch of time tuning both the sedan and wagon. Just buy the wagon kit.

Quote:

I know the dealer lists them as a set (SPT), but lets say you blew a strut- could they get a replacement?

Unless you know an individual part number - they are only sold as a spring/strut combo. So it would cost you $250 per corner.

Glenn

gtguy · 02-25-2002, 07:16 PM

Yeah Glenn, but the wagon kit is $1300 or something like that, vs. $175 or something for these springs. Considering the experimental nature of this thing, springs are the way to go, I rather think.

Kevin

ANZAC_1915 · 02-25-2002, 10:23 PM

The wagon has a different kerb weight and weight distribution. I wouldn't recommend using the sedan springs by themselves.

It might feel "better" because it is "stiffer" but building a good suspension that works is a function of tuning.

Though, experimentation is always worth trying.

Glenn

Scottie · 02-26-2002, 07:49 AM

Kevin,
What exact SPT springs are you talking about? The brochure I have only shows one set. Part Number SOA855Z1100, which is a set of Eibach springs made for the older Impreza 2.5 RS (1998-2001). Since there wasn't a 2.5 RS wagon back in the day, I would say those springs are only meant for the coupe and sedan. If you have received the recent SPT brochure by mail, then this is all pretty much squared away in there. The mailing also included a price sheet with all the part numbers and MSRP.

From what I've heard the stock WRX wagon springs are about 10mm longer in the rear to accomadate the wagon's additional weight back there as well as a bit of a load. (Some people really do put their WRX wagons to practicle use)

If you do some searching in the archives, I think you should be able to find references to the differences between the older Impreza sedans and wagons. I vaguely recall the older wagon having shorter rear springs than the sedan because of a difference in strut tower height.

Out of curiosity, why would a WRX wagon owner with DMS Golds mounted be looking at springs for the older car. Planning to buy a rally beater?

gtguy · 02-26-2002, 08:50 AM

These are the SPT springs from the WRX suspension upgrade. No, I figure I have to have something nice to drive around on should I ever have to send my DMS off to Dave for work (nothing imminent, however). The price seems right so what the heck, thinks I...

Kevin

Scottie · 02-26-2002, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gtguy
The price seems right so what the heck, thinks I...

Kevin

Who's selling just the springs and what is the price (that seems right)? As Glenn stated, the SPT/STi come together, both spring and strut. Part numbers for the WRX wagon are B2010FE310DS, B2010FE320DS, B2010FE330DS, and B2010FE340DS. Do you have a part number for just the springs?

gtguy · 02-26-2002, 04:14 PM

$200 shipped, $175 if I pick 'em up. I don't have a part number, but they're from the sedan SPT kit.

Kevin

no_rex_yet · 02-26-2002, 07:56 PM

The member "Topcover" recently posted a review of his Eibach sedan springs on his wrx wagon (search for his name). He said that they fit, but the rear sags, and bounces. Check out the post; it was from the Member's Car Gallery section.

gtguy · 02-26-2002, 10:28 PM

That won't be much help, actually, because I don't think much of Eibach, and their springs are progressive, which generally mean a combination of soft and hard coils that doesn't float my boat.

The SPT springs are linear, and specify a lower drop than the Eibach kit does.

Kevin

Scottie · 02-27-2002, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gtguy
That won't be much help, actually, because I don't think much of Eibach, and their springs are progressive, which generally mean a combination of soft and hard coils that doesn't float my boat.

The SPT springs are linear, and specify a lower drop than the Eibach kit does.

Kevin

Wait a minute, progressive springs don't float your boat? I must be losing my memory. Could someone help me out here? What kind of springs come with DMS Golds? Who is the number one voice for DMS Golds on this forum?

For some crazy reason, I had it in my head that the answers to the last two questions are "progressive" and "gtguy".

From the pictures I've seen of the springs that come with the SPT/STi suspension upgrade for the WRX wagon and sedan, the rear springs are progressive. They have tighter coils at one end. What gave you the idea that they are linear?

Kevin, why don't you measure the free length of the stock rear springs off your wagon? Then someone else, who has an aftermarket suspension on their sedan, could do the same. Both of you could post here, then we would all know if the rear springs differ in length.

gtguy · 02-27-2002, 10:04 AM

Sorry Scottie, I should have been clearer. DMS does progressive springs the right way, that is, they taper the coil windings, rather than using softer windings for the softer springs.

I should have said, "I don't think much of Eibach and their progressive-rate springs." I also double-checked the suspension kits, and the springs are indeed progressive, which is making me re-think this whole matter. I'll have to explore further.

I'll pop off a rear spring tonight (the stock stuff is sitting down in the basement) and measure free length, then ask the seller to measure the free length of the SPT rear springs, though with their progressive nature, I'm not sure how much of the question that would answer.

And to clarify, Dave Clark is the number one voice for DMS on this board. When people ask me, I tell them how well the product works for me. When they want information about it that I can provide, I do, and when misconceptions pop up about them, I try to assist from the standpoint of having correct information out there. That's something that we should all do. It makes this board work better from the transfer of information standpoint.

Kevin

Scottie · 02-27-2002, 01:29 PM

"I'll pop off a rear spring tonight (the stock stuff is sitting down in the basement) and measure free length, then ask the seller to measure the free length of the SPT rear springs, though with their progressive nature, I'm not sure how much of the question that would answer. "

You're right that wouldn't answer anything. That's why I suggested you compare the free length measurement of your wagon's stock rear spring to that of the free length of a sedan's stock rear spring. That will tell us if there are differences between the two in stock form.

"DMS does progressive springs the right way, that is, they taper the coil windings, rather than using softer windings for the softer springs."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you trying to suggest that the material stiffness in the "softer windings" is less than that of the "stiffer windings"? To the best of my knowledge (based on experience Eibach Pro kit springs) the wire diameter and material stiffness is constant in Eibach's Pro Kit springs. The progressive rate is achieved by varying the number of coils per unit length. More coils/inch means a softer spring rate.

When you say DMS tapers their coil windings, do you mean they taper the wire diameter, taper the number of coils per unit length, or taper the diameter of the coils? And just for whoohahs, why don't you throw in a technical explanation of why one is better than the other. Inquiring minds want to know.

girl · 02-27-2002, 05:01 PM

i recently sold my agx/gc coilover setup and am now running stock SEDAN shocks/springs all the way around in the meantime with no problemo. they bolted right up. i'm waiting for some cusco zero2R's right now which should be here in a matter of weeks. i'll let you guys know how it goes

fwiw, jb1 has zealb6's on his wagon, bolted up no problem.

m i k e b

kelley · 02-27-2002, 06:17 PM

the spring rates on the sedan and wagon are the same.( the sti . soa strut and spring package) 215/190. stiffer than the pink springs. so I would think that they should work ok.

gtguy · 02-27-2002, 07:30 PM

So Mike, you're running stock WRX sedan struts/springs on your what? Wagon? How is the ride, compared to the stock wagon setup? Dude, you can't cheat information seekers out of this stuff. What are you, nuts?

(He sings: I'm such a suspension tramp/Don' know what to do/Playin' around with struts an' springs/Cures me when I'm blue).

Scottie, I admit to parroting information from people who know better than I regarding my tapered coil windings vs the traditional progressive setup. My history with Eibach is that you get more than the specified drop. The mileage of others may vary.

And yes, I mean softer as in more winds per inch. I wish that I could offer a technical explanation as to why the DMS way works better, other than it works much better on my car. Of course, I suppose if I were that knowledgeable, I'd know the theories behind all this stuff, rather than playing with suspensions just for grins to answer questions about what works and what doesn't. The DMS coils per inch is the same when the spring is free. They taper the wire diameter rather than increasing the coils per inch. "Right,' as usual in a case like this one is subjective, meaning "Right for me and my car."

Kelley, they have different part numbers for the sedan and the wagon sets, for the struts and springs. Have you any data on what the differences might be? Free length could be one difference. I think we all presume that the front springs are identical, since they're the same car from the rear doors on up, excluding the front track width, of course.

Kevin

ANZAC_1915 · 02-27-2002, 07:36 PM

Quote:

The SPT springs are linear

If you are talking about the WRX SPT/STi springs, the sedan rears are progressive.

Glenn

girl · 02-27-2002, 08:11 PM

Quote:

So Mike, you're running stock WRX sedan struts/springs on your what? Wagon? How is the ride, compared to the stock wagon setup? Dude, you can't cheat information seekers out of this stuff. What are you, nuts? (He sings: I'm such a suspension tramp/Don' know what to do/Playin' around with struts an' springs/Cures me when I'm blue).

say what?? yeah on my wagon, at least thats what it says i have under car listing. why would i say i have sedan sus on a sedan?? haha. i'm just using them for the time being though, until the cusco's arrive. the ride is the same, cant expect too much from stock sus....sucks basically. the agx's actually handled very nicely. i just wanted to post that sedan shocks do indeed fit, springs as well. i thought thats what he wanted to know.

m i k e b

gtguy · 02-27-2002, 08:20 PM

Thanks Mike. I had heard that the sedan springs were stiffer than the wagon springs, hence the question. I figured it was a wagon, but asked for clarity's sake.

Was there any ride height change when you put the sedan springs on the wagon? I wouldn't think that 80 lbs would make that much difference, but some speculate that the sedan springs might droop in the rear when installed on the wagon.

Kevin

girl · 02-27-2002, 11:33 PM

kev,

i forgot what the gap size was on the stock wagon sus was. but now with the sedan sus on the wagon there is a 3 finger gap in the rear and the infamous fist size gap up front.....not very aesthetically appealing to say the least

i'm suffering with this sus, haha

good luck

m i k e b

kelley · 02-28-2002, 05:17 PM

afaik the only difference is the mounting points. but I am not even sure that is different. I was told by a reliable source that there is no difference in track width it is all cosmetic. he measured it himself. don't know this for sure. but the struts and springs other than that is identical. by the way this is a great set up. hope this helps kevin.

02-25-2002, 09:59 AM	#1
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	Are SPT springs for wagon and sedan the same as regards fitment? I imagine they will have different spring rates, but then again, maybe not. Anyhow, I just want to know if they will fit...that is, sedan springs fitting a wagon. Anyone? Kevin * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

02-26-2002, 07:49 AM	#9
Scottie Scooby Specialist Member#: 2080 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CT Vehicle: 06 Impreza Wagon Red	Kevin, What exact SPT springs are you talking about? The brochure I have only shows one set. Part Number SOA855Z1100, which is a set of Eibach springs made for the older Impreza 2.5 RS (1998-2001). Since there wasn't a 2.5 RS wagon back in the day, I would say those springs are only meant for the coupe and sedan. If you have received the recent SPT brochure by mail, then this is all pretty much squared away in there. The mailing also included a price sheet with all the part numbers and MSRP. From what I've heard the stock WRX wagon springs are about 10mm longer in the rear to accomadate the wagon's additional weight back there as well as a bit of a load. (Some people really do put their WRX wagons to practicle use) If you do some searching in the archives, I think you should be able to find references to the differences between the older Impreza sedans and wagons. I vaguely recall the older wagon having shorter rear springs than the sedan because of a difference in strut tower height. Out of curiosity, why would a WRX wagon owner with DMS Golds mounted be looking at springs for the older car. Planning to buy a rally beater? Last edited by Scottie; 02-26-2002 at 07:55 AM.

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02-25-2002, 10:24 AM	#2
ANZAC_1915 Scooby Guru Member#: 456 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Redmond, WA, USA Vehicle: 2008 Forester XT Steel Gray Metallic	Remember you can't buy them loose. You get a strut and a spring. I am not sure the sedan struts fit the wagon correctly. Glenn

02-25-2002, 11:23 AM	#3
BIGSKYWRX Scooby Guru Member#: 7958 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Plains of Eastern Montana Vehicle: 09 GH B+	I would guess that the springs would be interchangable (if available seperately) as the STi "sport" springs list one part number for GG and GD. Spring rate differences in the SPT setup I don't know. Struts in the rear may be a problem, we know there is from GC to GD. GG to GD rear would be useful to know. I know the dealer lists them as a set (SPT), but lets say you blew a strut- could they get a replacement? Probably. I'm thinking if someone were to have a good working relationship w/ his parts mgr. it would be worth asking. I'm having my parts mgr look into a piece (nothing to do w/ suspension) that isn't supposed to be available on it's own and it looks promising so far. Big Sky

02-25-2002, 12:51 PM	#4
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	I know someone who has a sedan set for sale, and I'm going to buy them, if they fit the wagon. I don't see why they wouldn't, frankly. The only differences between the two cars are the sedan's track width which necessitates a different strut mounting point. But the springs themselves, outside of spring rates, shouldn't be any different. I'd be putting them on the stock struts for an interesting experiment. Might be bouncy, might not, but given that the stock springs are too soft for the stock struts... Kevin

02-25-2002, 02:23 PM	#5
no_rex_yet Scooby Specialist Member#: 7351 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: philly Vehicle: 04 330cic	What about spring rates? I would think that the sedan and wagon have different rates due to the increased weight in the rear of the wagon. They may fit, but likely won't be optimal.

02-25-2002, 07:16 PM	#7
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	Yeah Glenn, but the wagon kit is $1300 or something like that, vs. $175 or something for these springs. Considering the experimental nature of this thing, springs are the way to go, I rather think. Kevin

02-25-2002, 10:23 PM	#8
ANZAC_1915 Scooby Guru Member#: 456 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Redmond, WA, USA Vehicle: 2008 Forester XT Steel Gray Metallic	The wagon has a different kerb weight and weight distribution. I wouldn't recommend using the sedan springs by themselves. It might feel "better" because it is "stiffer" but building a good suspension that works is a function of tuning. Though, experimentation is always worth trying. Glenn

02-26-2002, 08:50 AM	#10
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	These are the SPT springs from the WRX suspension upgrade. No, I figure I have to have something nice to drive around on should I ever have to send my DMS off to Dave for work (nothing imminent, however). The price seems right so what the heck, thinks I... Kevin

02-26-2002, 04:14 PM	#12
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	$200 shipped, $175 if I pick 'em up. I don't have a part number, but they're from the sedan SPT kit. Kevin

02-26-2002, 07:56 PM	#13
no_rex_yet Scooby Specialist Member#: 7351 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: philly Vehicle: 04 330cic	The member "Topcover" recently posted a review of his Eibach sedan springs on his wrx wagon (search for his name). He said that they fit, but the rear sags, and bounces. Check out the post; it was from the Member's Car Gallery section.

02-26-2002, 10:28 PM	#14
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	That won't be much help, actually, because I don't think much of Eibach, and their springs are progressive, which generally mean a combination of soft and hard coils that doesn't float my boat. The SPT springs are linear, and specify a lower drop than the Eibach kit does. Kevin

02-27-2002, 10:04 AM	#16
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	Sorry Scottie, I should have been clearer. DMS does progressive springs the right way, that is, they taper the coil windings, rather than using softer windings for the softer springs. I should have said, "I don't think much of Eibach and their progressive-rate springs." I also double-checked the suspension kits, and the springs are indeed progressive, which is making me re-think this whole matter. I'll have to explore further. I'll pop off a rear spring tonight (the stock stuff is sitting down in the basement) and measure free length, then ask the seller to measure the free length of the SPT rear springs, though with their progressive nature, I'm not sure how much of the question that would answer. And to clarify, Dave Clark is the number one voice for DMS on this board. When people ask me, I tell them how well the product works for me. When they want information about it that I can provide, I do, and when misconceptions pop up about them, I try to assist from the standpoint of having correct information out there. That's something that we should all do. It makes this board work better from the transfer of information standpoint. Kevin

02-27-2002, 01:29 PM	#17
Scottie Scooby Specialist Member#: 2080 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CT Vehicle: 06 Impreza Wagon Red	"I'll pop off a rear spring tonight (the stock stuff is sitting down in the basement) and measure free length, then ask the seller to measure the free length of the SPT rear springs, though with their progressive nature, I'm not sure how much of the question that would answer. " You're right that wouldn't answer anything. That's why I suggested you compare the free length measurement of your wagon's stock rear spring to that of the free length of a sedan's stock rear spring. That will tell us if there are differences between the two in stock form. "DMS does progressive springs the right way, that is, they taper the coil windings, rather than using softer windings for the softer springs." I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you trying to suggest that the material stiffness in the "softer windings" is less than that of the "stiffer windings"? To the best of my knowledge (based on experience Eibach Pro kit springs) the wire diameter and material stiffness is constant in Eibach's Pro Kit springs. The progressive rate is achieved by varying the number of coils per unit length. More coils/inch means a softer spring rate. When you say DMS tapers their coil windings, do you mean they taper the wire diameter, taper the number of coils per unit length, or taper the diameter of the coils? And just for whoohahs, why don't you throw in a technical explanation of why one is better than the other. Inquiring minds want to know.

02-27-2002, 05:01 PM	#18
girl Scooby Specialist Member#: 7768 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: bay area, C A L I	i recently sold my agx/gc coilover setup and am now running stock SEDAN shocks/springs all the way around in the meantime with no problemo. they bolted right up. i'm waiting for some cusco zero2R's right now which should be here in a matter of weeks. i'll let you guys know how it goes fwiw, jb1 has zealb6's on his wagon, bolted up no problem. m i k e b

02-27-2002, 06:17 PM	#19
kelley Visiting NASIOC Timeout Member#: 5681 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: portland, oregon Vehicle: 94 legacy turbo 04 sti	the spring rates on the sedan and wagon are the same.( the sti . soa strut and spring package) 215/190. stiffer than the pink springs. so I would think that they should work ok.

02-27-2002, 07:30 PM	#20
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	So Mike, you're running stock WRX sedan struts/springs on your what? Wagon? How is the ride, compared to the stock wagon setup? Dude, you can't cheat information seekers out of this stuff. What are you, nuts? (He sings: I'm such a suspension tramp/Don' know what to do/Playin' around with struts an' springs/Cures me when I'm blue). Scottie, I admit to parroting information from people who know better than I regarding my tapered coil windings vs the traditional progressive setup. My history with Eibach is that you get more than the specified drop. The mileage of others may vary. And yes, I mean softer as in more winds per inch. I wish that I could offer a technical explanation as to why the DMS way works better, other than it works much better on my car. Of course, I suppose if I were that knowledgeable, I'd know the theories behind all this stuff, rather than playing with suspensions just for grins to answer questions about what works and what doesn't. The DMS coils per inch is the same when the spring is free. They taper the wire diameter rather than increasing the coils per inch. "Right,' as usual in a case like this one is subjective, meaning "Right for me and my car." Kelley, they have different part numbers for the sedan and the wagon sets, for the struts and springs. Have you any data on what the differences might be? Free length could be one difference. I think we all presume that the front springs are identical, since they're the same car from the rear doors on up, excluding the front track width, of course. Kevin

02-27-2002, 08:20 PM	#23
gtguy Scooby Guru Member#: 2184 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon Platinum Silver Metallic	Thanks Mike. I had heard that the sedan springs were stiffer than the wagon springs, hence the question. I figured it was a wagon, but asked for clarity's sake. Was there any ride height change when you put the sedan springs on the wagon? I wouldn't think that 80 lbs would make that much difference, but some speculate that the sedan springs might droop in the rear when installed on the wagon. Kevin

02-27-2002, 11:33 PM	#24
girl Scooby Specialist Member#: 7768 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: bay area, C A L I	kev, i forgot what the gap size was on the stock wagon sus was. but now with the sedan sus on the wagon there is a 3 finger gap in the rear and the infamous fist size gap up front.....not very aesthetically appealing to say the least i'm suffering with this sus, haha good luck m i k e b

02-28-2002, 05:17 PM	#25
kelley Visiting NASIOC Timeout Member#: 5681 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: portland, oregon Vehicle: 94 legacy turbo 04 sti	afaik the only difference is the mounting points. but I am not even sure that is different. I was told by a reliable source that there is no difference in track width it is all cosmetic. he measured it himself. don't know this for sure. but the struts and springs other than that is identical. by the way this is a great set up. hope this helps kevin.