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Old 06-21-2004, 03:28 AM   #1
sonicowrx03
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Default Only [email protected] with 280who Dyno Dynamic, what is wrong with my car?

Hi,

After spending so much money on serious mods I was very dissapointed to run these horrible times. My best was a 13.2 @104 and I ran a few 13.3s @103mph , I honestly was expecting to break into the high 12's.

This are the facts and please make your own judgements:

- 20 June at South Western Intl Raceway(Tucson)
-ran the car between 11pm and 130am
-91 oct gas,1/4 gas tank,21.5k miles on stock tires and about 80 degrees temp ,altitude of 2700feet, my car weighted 3244lbs with me in it

My mods:
Forced Performance 18G Turbo
TurboXs TMIC
Borla Headers
HKS Down Pipe
Greddy Cat Back
Utec
PE 650cc injectors
STI Scoop
Gt Spec Air Splitter
Samco Intercooler hoses
Injen Cold air intake
Walbro 255lph Fuel pump
Turbo Xs Up-pipe
GFB Manual Boost Controler @18psi

My car was tuned by Clark 2 weeks ago and it made 280.3whp and 255pounds of torque with 91 gas and 18psi of boost

This is my best run

r/t 1.039
60' 2.000
1/8 mile [email protected]
1000' 11.102
1/4 [email protected]

Other run

r/t .639
60' 1.982
330' 5.600
1/8 [email protected]
1000' 11.140
1/4 [email protected]

other run


r/t .705

60' 1.968
330' 5.601
1/8 [email protected]
1000 11.151
1/4 [email protected]


Exactly one year ago, I was running consistently 13.80@99mph all day long(same track,same temperature, same stock tires,same gas) but stock turbo, stock injectors, stock fuel pump and no computer but all the other mods mentioned above.

It is really hard to believe that by adding so much,FP18G turbo, fuel pump,injectors and computer plus running at a steady 18psi and have it tuned my car only gain .5 second in the 1/4 mile and 5 mph trap speed.

There was a Mitsubishi Evo that could not get below 14.s and another wrx making 270WHP(Dyno Dynamic) just tuned by Clark couldn't get lower than 13.5s.

My last year best runs:
(stock turbo, injectors, fuel pump, computer and 17psi peak dropping to 12psi)


r/t .597
60 2.036
330 5.750
1/8 [email protected]
1000' 11.526
1/4 [email protected]


other run

r/t .960
60' 1.900
330' 5.694
1/8 [email protected]
1000 11.526
1/4 [email protected]


So please, I want to hear your comments, is it the stock worn tires?, is it the altitude ? the 91 gas? the turbo lag?the temperature?, or maybe maybeI am running decent times considering the conditions. I really need your honest opinion.

Thanks for your responses
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:12 AM   #2
import111
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I could be wrong but I think SIR in Tucson is at 2995 ft. elevation. I think U should be in the 12.9 range easily. R U having traction problems? Im the guy w/ the blue 01 2.5RS that did the gates pass drive w/ all U guys a week or 2 ago.
Ryan
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:48 AM   #3
hotrod
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Tucson lists as 3000 ft according to the NHRA.

The altitude correction factors are:
ET to sealevel = .9863
MPH to sealevel = 1.0131

The most obvious thing is you're 60' times should be in the low 1.8 - high 1.7 second range at that power level. I suspect you're either not getting into boost when you launch, or your just spinning your tires on launch. Dropping your 60' time would get you into the 12's.

What tire pressure are you running?

based on the mph gain from 1/8 to 1/4 it looks like your doing okay on the top end, so I would focus on your launch for now.

Play with tire pressures, move pressures in about 2 psi increments and see what the car likes. Most folks seem to get their best 60' times near the mid - high 30 psi range.

Juggle your launch rpm -- try launching at around 5500 rpm. Get someone to watch or video your launch so you can figure out what's going on. If your bogging or spinning will determine what you need to do to fix it.

Remember your first shift comes before you complete your 60', you need to make an effort to get a quick clean shift on that low - second shift.

What rpm are you making that first shift at? It should be near 7000 rpm.

Larry
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:23 AM   #4
turbo2nr
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terrible 60'
if you had gotten a 1.7 60'= 12.7et
if you had gotten a 1.8 60'=12.9et
run more boost!
you need no more parts to get low 12s
every pound of boost=.1 in quarter
for every .1 you shave off in 60'= .2 over all
you will get some good times, there cars are hard to launch

your mph (104mph-93mph stock) shows an eleven mph improvement over stock
for each mph better, it takes about nine hp. 11x9=99hp gain 325 at the crank or around 285 hp @ wheels
sounds about right to me!
more boost! better launch!
you can do better!

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-21-2004 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:45 PM   #5
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Stephen used to race in PHX and then in Tucson with the same car. He can comment on how much slower that track is.. Its horribly slow.. Its also 3000 ft in the air and its hot as hell outside. Showing up with a full weight car on pump fuel to a track thats slow nets pretty slow results

What it comes down to is practice and good timing.. The car will sixty ft 1.7. If you dont sixty ft at least 1.8 then you need to practice or find out why.. I know because I used to sixty ft in the 1.7's all night long pass after pass in my car. It only took 6 short months of drag racing 2-3 times a week to be able to do that.. I am rusty now and last time out I sixty footed in the 2.4 range.. I am sure within a week or two of practice I could get back to where I was.. Had you ran a 1.8 sixty I assure you your ET would have been around 12.8 right off the bat.. your MPH is low but that means your not making 280whp that night.. Probably heat and the track elevation.

Cya

Clark
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Old 06-21-2004, 07:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbo2nr

sounds about right to me!
more boost! better launch!
you can do better!
He can't run more boost on 91oct. He is octane limited. If Clark tuned the car, then that usually mean that car is meant to run every single day at the power level that it put down, very reliable.

280whp on a dyno dynamics doesn't play around. The MPH should be around 108-110. The elevation, weather and 60' play a huge role in all of it.. Go to another track, when it's cooler, and a mid 12 is in your future.

I have a quick question, where can you find what elevation each track in the US is according to NHRA?

Wally
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Old 06-21-2004, 07:40 PM   #7
neversatisfied
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High altitude and bad launches. Shifting and shift points might be some of your problem.
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Old 06-21-2004, 07:45 PM   #8
John Sever
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Don't be afraid to launch that thing if you want good times. I was running 1.79 60 ft times with basically what you have but STOCK turbo. Also best times were 13.30@103. Dynoed 238/238 on a Dynapack.

If that 60ft was in the 1.79 range you would no freakin doubt be well into the 12's.
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Old 06-21-2004, 08:47 PM   #9
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you guys don't have 93octane? how about 100unleaded? whats up? we got that everywhere in VA. just dump some tolueane in the tank, or get an alchohol or methanol inj. to raise octane, or put some dry ice on the intercooler, then raise boost, i use three different turbos with 18-28psi and never change the map. sure i can put in 116 sunoco red max #5 (nos blend) . just keep going up in boost until you do not see an improvement in mph. that would be when you knock sensor is pulling timing, it won't hurt motor, thats why we have knock sensors!
there are plenty of mathmatical formulas to calculate horsepower, using the cars weight , and trap speed. go to "horsepower calculator" in google for just one example. you will not go over 111mph with the power that someone stated earlier in this thread.
big turkey, you know not!
to go 110mph in a car with about 3100lbs with driver in it(it probably is much more) you will need at least 322whp and at least 380@the crank!
I have gotten over 126mph in my wrx!
more to come!
104mph is exactly right for his dyno numbers,period.

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-21-2004 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:22 PM   #10
hotrod
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Default track info

Wally -

You can go to :
http://www.nhra.com/tracks/tracks.htm to find individual tracks.

This link lists all the high altitude tracks and their correction factors:

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/altitude.html

Note that you use the 1/2 factor for supercharged and turbocharged cars.

larry

Last edited by hotrod; 06-21-2004 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:22 PM   #11
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I checked and didn't see what housing you had on the turbo. I had a similar set up witha 18g 8cm housing ran 100 octane at 112 mph dynoed at 325 whp. When I put a front mount on and ran c-16 I ran 117-118 mph dynoed at 365 whp. With what Clark said about the track and the elevation I think you are where you should be. Get some good gas and up the boost a little at a time and check with Clark to create a new map for the higher octane.
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:22 PM   #12
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Turbo2nr, On the contrary, I think Big Turkey and CLark are correct.

I also had my car tuned by Clark on the exact same dyno (dyanmics) and on my first visit to have my car tuned I put down 262.2whp. Yeah it's no where near 280.3whp however, I managed to break into the 12's-- and at 5700ft.
It was on my pump gas map and I ran a [email protected] with 1.8x 60ft. If I had driven it a little better maybe into the 1.7x range, I would have made a 110mph trap. Now with 262.2whp from a dyno dynamics dyno at 5700ft, I'm .5mph off trapping 110... so it's possible.
BTW, my friend Nabahe told me about your car.. I'm his friend from NM with the blue WRX and yellow wrx. He told me your transmission gave out????


CLarence
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Old 06-21-2004, 09:35 PM   #13
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dude i don't know who you guys are. i have had a mrt dogbox for over a year.
did you go to horsepower calculator? it is very close. you can not argue with physics. maby the dyno is a little off, but people have been using mph/vs weight to figure hp for only 100yrs.
do you know me? i had a blue wagon years ago in the high 11s
i have a black sedan now with an eight point cage, and a drag wing. the only wrx i have ever seen with one. i live in richmond va, and race at virginia motorsports park, richmond dragway and maryland internatial raceway in budds creek MD.
did you guys know me when i draged buick gn?
well?
if you almost went 110 in the quarter than you have about 322hp at wheels and about 380hp at the crank. congradulations. if you want to argue with that then go to other sources other than me. but i know all three of you are wrong.

ps. i have broken almost everything in a wrx at least once. forces me to learn to fix it all. i always up grade. getting close to a $90,000 wrx!

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-21-2004 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:21 PM   #14
John Sever
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if you almost went 110 in the quarter than you have about 322hp at wheels and about 380hp at the crank. congradulations. if you want to argue with that then go to other sources other than me. but i know all three of you are wrong.

ps. i have bro
Quote:
Originally posted by turbo2nr
dude i don't know who you guys are. i have had a mrt dogbox for over a year.
did you go to horsepower calculator? it is very close. you can not argue with physics. maby the dyno is a little off, but people have been using mph/vs weight to figure hp for only 100yrs.
do you know me? i had a blue wagon years ago in the high 11s
i have a black sedan now with an eight point cage, and a drag wing. the only wrx i have ever seen with one. i live in richmond va, and race at virginia motorsports park, richmond dragway and maryland internatial raceway in budds creek MD.
did you guys know me when i draged buick gn?
well?
ken almost everything in a wrx at least once. forces me to learn to fix it all. i always up grade. getting close to a $90,000 wrx!

Jesus Christ...could you possibly write a post that doesn't say how great you are? Every post, you are trying to qualify yourself to answer whatever questions were asked. No I didn't know you when you raced GN's, i'm sorry you have spent 90k on your Wrx and I ran 13.30@ 103 with 238WHP so the HP crapulator means exactly nothing.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:28 PM   #15
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I've seen my friend Clarence, run the 12.7 at Albuquerque National Dragway with an elevation of 5700 ft. He really does only have 262 at the wheels and I witnesses his 12 second runs.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:36 PM   #16
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hotrod, thanks for the info

turbo2nr, how many years, is "years ago"? And you don't have to get so defensive, we weren't saying you are dead wrong, we just have a different opinion than you.

Do you have any pics of your car? I'm interested to see this "only WRX with a drag wing".

The Dyno Dynamics dyno tends to read a good amount lower than most.. say a dynojet. The horsepower calculator gives you an estimate of what you are running.. it doesn't give exact figures. Everyone knows that putting 300whp one dyno, on any given day, will be different than another dyno, on another given day. There are too many factors to calculate. We can go on and on about dyno readings but that's already been covered. The point being was that the DD dyno has been proven over and over again to read significantly lower than most dyno's, and reiterating what Clark said, he wasn't maknig 280whp that night.

Just a quick example. I ran 106mph making 281whp on a dynojet. I made 346whp, and trapped 112mph, on the same dynojet. Clark, with his old setup on a shot of nitrous, made 340whp and trapped 117-118mph. Clarence went 112mph making 280 on the same dyno that Clark went. Another person (can't remember his name) dyno'd 311whp, went to the track the following weekend and blasted 114mph. It just shows the difference between these two dyno's.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:32 PM   #17
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BIg turkey,

That other person was me. I made 311whp on the DD dyno on my second visit and ran a 114.8 trap. Good stuff.


CLarence
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbo2nr
dude i don't know who you guys are. i have had a mrt dogbox for over a year.
did you go to horsepower calculator? it is very close. you can not argue with physics. maby the dyno is a little off, but people have been using mph/vs weight to figure hp for only 100yrs.
do you know me? i had a blue wagon years ago in the high 11s
i have a black sedan now with an eight point cage, and a drag wing. the only wrx i have ever seen with one. i live in richmond va, and race at virginia motorsports park, richmond dragway and maryland internatial raceway in budds creek MD.
did you guys know me when i draged buick gn?
well?
if you almost went 110 in the quarter than you have about 322hp at wheels and about 380hp at the crank. congradulations. if you want to argue with that then go to other sources other than me. but i know all three of you are wrong.

ps. i have broken almost everything in a wrx at least once. forces me to learn to fix it all. i always up grade. getting close to a $90,000 wrx!
Al?
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Old 06-22-2004, 06:31 AM   #19
turbo2nr
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ok, you guys can call me Als brother. i don't care.
there are a lot of different horsepower calc., but basically the same answer.

go to google and search for horsepower calculator. use all of them.
i have a sliding chart on the same topic. same results.
my mercedes, with 350hp @crank and maby 295 at wheels will go about
106 in quarter.
look at other cars, maby in the back of car and driver, you will see that you guys can verify the info at horsepower calc.

i was refering to some one who says they know me?chessmaster.
i hope to run over 130 as soon as i get rwd conversion finished.

i hope all of you can come to the east shootout!
we will see what happens.

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-22-2004 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by turbo2nr
ok, you guys can call me Als brother. i don't care.
there are a lot of different horsepower calc., but basically the same answer.

go to google and search for horsepower calculator. use all of them.
i have a sliding chart on the same topic. same results.
my mercedes, with 350hp @crank and maby 295 at wheels will go about
106 in quarter.
look at other cars, maby in the back of car and driver, you will see that you guys can verify the info at horsepower calc.

i was refering to some one who says they know me?chessmaster.
i hope to run over 130 as soon as i get rwd conversion finished.

i hope all of you can come to the east shootout!
we will see what happens.
The online horsepower calculators generally only work for FWD/RWD. I've never seen one that can predict AWD correctly.
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:16 AM   #21
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Bottom line.. The DD dyno is a heart breaker. Thats why she is named after a Stripper Named Vivian that will break your heart.

Thats why everyone in the shop including me was shocked when this car cranked out 280whp on pump fuel. Its no joke and alot of power. I have tuned on dyno's all over this country and I can say that this dyno reads 30-40whp less then a Dynojet dyno.. For reference:

Clarence 311whp Trap 115mph.
Me 330whp Trap 118mph
Local's car 260whp Trap 110mph

The car in question will trap around 110-112mph depending on many factors. Those factors came into play when you toss in altitude, heat and lack of practice.

Clarence is likely to out trap all of us with his setup we are building now. Except may Mike cause he just went big-er

C
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:30 AM   #22
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i agree, that dyno is wrong and you guys have more power than you think.

the difference of the horsepower calc. is based on drivetrain efficiency. there is not that much difference between fwd, rwd, and awd,. of course awd will soak up more power, but that only makes me more right. so a awd car will probably have even a little more power than the hp calc. says. we are only talking about a little.
i have never been to a dyno.
i don't need a dyno to tell me a low 11 sec wrx is fast.
i use the drag strip as a test and tune(hence the name of many events) to see what works. it is a lot cheaper,more fun, and just as accurate as dyno to get results.
who cares how much hp you have? are you going to post it on you cars windshield or something? it only matters how happy you are with the results. does your butt feel the power? can you stomp mustangs all day long? be happy! dynos suck!
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:57 AM   #23
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The dyno is not "wrong".. It outputs a numbers would be just as usefull if they where 100 hp off. Those numbers are usefull determining if the change that was just made has helped and or improved output. The DD dyno also offers load features that make tuning part throttle as well as full load a snap. Time is money to some and the dyno can save alot of time. The DD dyno is probably the best Dyno in the world. Its to bad it falls short on the number one most important feature. Its ability to market the tuner/shop/and or parts. A Dyno with a higher reading is the best tool for the performance shop. A recent post was made from a shop getting 430whp out of a car. Would all of you have been so excited if they posted "380whp!!!" ??? People would have posted that XX shop just got 420+whp out of the same engine.. meanwhile the 380whp might have been more power.



Cya

Clark
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:40 PM   #24
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Funny Thread

I trap 106.81 MPH in the 1/4 and My dyno Number on Axis Heartbreaker is only 248 AHP.

GO figure A dyno is only a TOOL for Tunning.
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:55 PM   #25
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the drag strip is a better tool. it is real life results.
and, it only costs $10-25 dollars for a test and tune night!
dyno takes just as much time and ten times the money!
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