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Old 09-11-2017, 03:44 PM   #701
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I find it really funny..... How Kvyat is still has a seat in F1
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:08 PM   #702
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I find it really funny..... How Kvyat is still has a seat in F1
He was gone years ago but keeps getting life preservers thrown his way via other driver changes.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:08 PM   #703
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Looks official now:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...ership-952183/

McLaren has reached an agreement with Honda to be released from their partnership and switch to Renault power from the 2018 Formula 1 season, Motorsport.com has learned.

Honda's return to F1 with McLaren has been disastrous since it came back to the grid in 2015, with a lack of performance and constant reliability problems holding the once-successful partnership back during its second iteration.

The relationship has become so fractious during 2017 that it became clear a split was likely, with Renault emerging as McLaren's only realistic alternative.

Sources close to the deal have confirmed to Motorsport.com that McLaren has agreed a three-year deal with Renault, taking it to the end of the current F1 engine regulations cycle in 2020.

It is understood McLaren will get parity on power unit specification with the works Renault team and fellow customer Red Bull, while Toro Rosso's deal to switch from Renault to Honda – freeing up a supply for McLaren – has also been signed.

The McLaren-Renault deal has helped move Fernando Alonso closer to signing a potentially multi-year extension to his original 2015-17 contract with the team.

Motorsport.com revealed over the weekend that Renault had agreed to take Carlos Sainz from Toro Rosso as part of the agreement for Red Bull's secondary team to end its Renault contract early, although it is not yet clear when the Spaniard will make the switch.

Sainz has been linked to making the move before the end of this season, but it is understood that Toro Rosso is keen to hang onto him for the rest of the campaign to boost its own hopes in the constructors' championship.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #704
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Fernando has lost some of his luster in this Honda fiasco. Cruel fate would make the 2018 Honda's the chariots of the gods! But that would involve the torpedo or Gasly!
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:03 PM   #705
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Fernando has lost some of his luster in this Honda fiasco. Cruel fate would make the 2018 Honda's the chariots of the gods! But that would involve the torpedo or Gasly!
Alsonso still has fire in his belly. He just needs the power unit to deliver. You could see some of the fire during the Indy 500.

I do agree it will be cruel if Honda magically produces a top engine, but that still in the picture since they will have produce the power units for STR including the cost. I don't think Honda could afford another year with Egg of their face.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:02 PM   #706
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I think this is a great move for every player involved (except for Palmer).

Teams/engines:
McLaren: Ditches trash Honda engine that has kept them as backmarkers for years and get a decent Renault engine which gets Red Bull podiums. They also get to keep Alonso because of it, but lose a lot of money.

Toro Rosso: While it looks bad to gain said trash Honda engine, they effectively become a works team and more importantly, open that possibility up to Red Bull down the road as they have already seen what McLaren has; that they cannot win with a customer engine. They lose a great prospect in Sainz but Honda's cash will pad that nicely. Gasly looks really impressive, too!

Renault: Still supply the same number of teams, although there's a real possibility both customers (RBR and McLaren) could beat them, so good on them for doing this. Get Sainz in compensation for Toro Rosso breaking their engine contract. Hopefully they don't have to deal with too much bitching from Alonso...

Honda: Get to stay in F1 and sort their **** out with a junior team with junior drivers, not a team with expectations and heritage like McLaren and a multiple world champion like Alonso whose patience was gone very quickly. Possibility to be Red Bull Honda if they get their **** together and we see what the 2021 regs are. I think they will come good eventually, it has just taken way too long for heavy hitters like McLaren and Alonso to tolerate.

And as for drivers:
Alonso: Gets a competitive-ish engine to keep him at McLaren, his best choice considering there are no top seats available.

Sainz: Finally gets out of the RBjr team and into a works car that should be better and better each year whereas TR will always be midfield at best. Not clear if he's still a RB contracted driver or set free.

Gasly: Moves up the RB junior ladder into F1.

Palmer: Too bad, so sad.
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:01 AM   #707
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McLaren should be fighting with Red Bull with the same engine. Maybe even coming out ahead.
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:57 AM   #708
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I can't help but look forward to watching Torro Rosso next year. Surprised Kvyat may still be on.

I'll be pretending they're getting the Brawn Gp fairy dust.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:07 AM   #709
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I'll be pretending they're getting the Brawn Gp fairy dust.

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Old 09-13-2017, 11:58 AM   #710
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McLaren should be fighting with Red Bull with the same engine. Maybe even coming out ahead.
Definitely. They haven't had the same lead time that RBR has in terms of knowing they're running Renault engines next year and designing their car around it, but sometimes that doesn't seem to matter as much as I think. It's also only September. Another team mixing it up (presumably) behind the Mercs and Ferraris would be great to see rather than fighting Haas.

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Originally Posted by parker/slc/gc8fan View Post
I can't help but look forward to watching Torro Rosso next year. Surprised Kvyat may still be on.

I'll be pretending they're getting the Brawn Gp fairy dust.
I suddenly want Honda to come good more than I did with McLaren. Not in the spiteful Alonso always leaves a project before it comes good kind of way, but in that nothing to lose kind of way. They have Kvyat who keeps lucking into staying in F1 and most likely Gasly as a rookie. I'd like to see them do well with Honda so they stick around rather than fail year after year before quitting in shame.

Above all, I want the 2021 regs to sort out this power unit disaster we currently have where the costs have skyrocketed out of control and reliability isn't keeping up with the regulations, costing teams laughing-stock grid penalties. Hopefully by addressing those, they can lure in other manufacturers (Cosworth, Porsche?) instead of clinging to the few they have.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:15 PM   #711
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
Above all, I want the 2021 regs to sort out this power unit disaster we currently have where the costs have skyrocketed out of control and reliability isn't keeping up with the regulations, costing teams laughing-stock grid penalties. Hopefully by addressing those, they can lure in other manufacturers (Cosworth, Porsche?) instead of clinging to the few they have.
Don't forget getting rid of the stupid fuel flow regs so we can hear 16,000+ rpm again.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:26 PM   #712
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with Alonso and without Honda McLaren will go broke

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Old 09-13-2017, 10:31 PM   #713
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I think the prospect of a competitive McLaren would entice enough sponsors to make up for some of that loss.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:05 AM   #714
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Looks like Red Bull going to get the Honda engine rammed down their throats in 2019.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...s-2019-952699/

Red Bull may be forced into a switch to Honda engines for 2019, with current partner Renault working to end its supply deal at the end of next year.

Ferrari and Mercedes have no intention to extend supply deals beyond current commitments, and were not interested in Red Bull supply for 2016 when previously offered the chance.

Although Red Bull joining Toro Rosso with Honda power in 2019 has been an obvious option, should the Japanese engine show sufficient improvement next season, it now appears that the Milton Keynes team's hand has been forced.

Although an extended deal between Renault and Red Bull for 2019 and 2020 was never formally announced, Motorsport.com understands that it was agreed, but that it now in the process of being
cancelled by the French manufacturer as part of the fallout of Toro Rosso's divorce from Renault for 2018.

That leaves Red Bull with no option but to agree a Honda deal sooner rather than later.

However, it's not thought that the arrangement will be part of tomorrow's raft of announcements.

Red Bull did not respond to a request for comment when contacted.

A complete divorce between Red Bull and Renault after just one more season is no surprise given that they were forced into an uneasy marriage of convenience, with the engine badged as a TAG Heuer and no branding on the Red Bulls.

A Red Bull-Honda deal expands on the relationship that the two companies already have in MotoGP, creating obvious marketing opportunities.

As with Toro Rosso, the deal is likely to be worth a lot of money to Red Bull as it will no longer be paying for its engines, and will probably receive funding from Honda on top, which means that Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz's financial commitment will be substantially reduced.

Red Bull may also be able to keep its TAG Heuer sponsorship, although the watchmaker won't badge the engine.

However, there are obvious question marks over Honda's potential form in 2019, even allowing for some improvement over the course of next season.

Longer term, Red Bull remains linked to the potential arrival of Porsche in 2021, which could mean that its deal with Honda lasts for just two seasons, potentially leaving Toro Rosso on its own again.

If confirmed, the news will also be of considerable interest to Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo, both of whom are on the market for 2019.

The likelihood is that they will now accelerate the process of looking for alternative seats, with opportunities currently available at both Mercedes and Ferrari.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:09 AM   #715
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Looks like Red Bull going to get the Honda engine rammed down their throats in 2019.
Hmmm, not surprised. I just hope Honda can bring something more to the plate.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:05 PM   #716
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So about RIC and VER wanting a title-contending car...
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:45 PM   #717
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Looking for Nelsinho to do well again this weekend.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:14 PM   #718
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Fernando has lost some of his luster in this Honda fiasco. Cruel fate would make the 2018 Honda's the chariots of the gods! But that would involve the torpedo or Gasly!
And not Mclaren?
So the Honda fiasco proved Alonso lost his luster..... but everyone is fine with Mclaren's performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
I think this is a great move for every player involved (except for Palmer).

Teams/engines:
McLaren: Ditches trash Honda engine that has kept them as backmarkers for years and get a decent Renault engine which gets Red Bull podiums. They also get to keep Alonso because of it, but lose a lot of money.

Renault: Still supply the same number of teams, although there's a real possibility both customers (RBR and McLaren) could beat them, so good on them for doing this. Get Sainz in compensation for Toro Rosso breaking their engine contract. Hopefully they don't have to deal with too much bitching from Alonso...

Honda: Get to stay in F1 and sort their **** out with a junior team with junior drivers, not a team with expectations and heritage like McLaren and a multiple world champion like Alonso whose patience was gone very quickly. Possibility to be Red Bull Honda if they get their **** together and we see what the 2021 regs are. I think they will come good eventually, it has just taken way too long for heavy hitters like McLaren and Alonso to tolerate.
Alonso's patience? So Mclaren were perfectly fine with the countless double DNF, no points and hopeless engine power output? Mclaren had all the patience. Chilling with their homies.

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Originally Posted by torquemada View Post
with Alonso and without Honda McLaren will go broke
Are you willing to bet on that?

Not one of the "Red Bull" teams out before Mclaren is out?
Not Sauber?

In your opinion..... Mclaren will go broke because of keeping Alonso and ditching Honda for a "works" deal with the engine that won 4 championships with a mediocre driver driving for a drinks company just a few yrs ago?

Last edited by F1EA; 09-15-2017 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:28 PM   #719
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McLaren may have scripted the Alonso action and attitude he exhibited in his dislike of the power unit to help force the change. I'll agree that it's been rough for McLaren.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:19 PM   #720
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McLaren may have scripted the Alonso action and attitude he exhibited in his dislike of the power unit to help force the change. I'll agree that it's been rough for McLaren.
I wouldn't say they 'scripted' it, but no way Alonso was the only one feeling dismayed. I'm pretty sure many of the Mclaren people were trashing hotel room TVs somewhere with each DNF; the difference is that Alonso was 'Live on camera'.

Then of course, they ask Zack or Eric Bouillier about the state of affairs 5 days after the DNF, at the Mclaren hospitality centre, sharing a glass of iced water.... and yeah, they're going to give the watered down PR version. But all those guys must have been fuming 99% of the time.

I do feel bad about Honda though. I guess nobody deserves such utter failure. I mean... not having the best engine can be understandable and ok even. But all out the worst. Worse than the worst. Not even decent.

Mclaren have almost had no testing in the last 3 seasons. The cars can barely make it through the TESTING program on any given weekend! And not through experimental parts failing, or crashes, or whatever part supplied from a 3rd party.... because of engine failures. From a works supplier. That is just insane.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:29 PM   #721
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one year

Quote:
Honda contributed over $100 million a year to McLaren’s budget, according to insiders, and their departure leaves a significant shortfall.

McLaren, the sport’s second most successful team in terms of race wins, have not had a title sponsor since telecoms company Vodafone left at the end of 2013. They last won a grand prix at the end of 2012.

Brown was confident the gap could be bridged and said the team -- largely owned by Bahrain’s Mumtalakat Holding Company and Saudi-born businessman Mansour Ojjeh -- was prepared to bear the short-term financial pain.

“We’re fortunate in that we have very committed shareholders, that the remit is to go win races, make the right sporting decisions and then the business will follow,” said the American.

“It’ll take some time but our shareholders are very committed, very aware and we wouldn’t have made this decision if we weren’t prepared to work through short-term economic loss from the lack of Honda income.”
http://in.reuters.com/article/motor-...-idINKCN1BQ2LG
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:55 PM   #722
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So about RIC and VER wanting a title-contending car...
This could help:

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15881

Christian Horner has hinted that Red Bull could be set to announce a switch to Aston Martin engines, or even a full takeover by the British marque in the near future, amid reports Renault are set to dump the team as an official engine partner.
It's been reported that Red Bull's current supplier, Renault, has informed the team that it won't be renewing its deal after 2018, which would force Red Bull into a partnership with Honda its sister team Toro Rosso's new supplier.
Yet there are also reports hinting that Porsche could soon join the sport as an engine supplier to Red Bull, but not until 2021 when the new regulations are adopted.
However on Saturday in Singapore, Horner said an announcement would take place "soon" that wouldn't involve Porsche, Renault or Honda, hinting at a deal with Aston Martin, which is keen to get more involved with F1.
"Paddock rumour is so great," Horner told Sky Sports. "I think there will be another announcement soon, that won't be with Porsche. I'll leave you with that one to think about, but it won't be with Porsche."
Pushed on the matter, he was asked: "So you're saying something besides from Porsche, Renault or Honda?"
"Absolutely," he replied. "We have a relationship with a motor manufacturer already. You haven't got to be a rocket scientist to work out what it is."
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:00 PM   #723
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Alonso wants to talk to Renault about the engine before he signs with McLaren:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...t-about-engine

Fernando Alonso wants to speak with Renault about its 2018 Formula 1 engine plans to help him decide on his future with McLaren.

McLaren on Friday finally confirmed it was splitting with current engine supplier Honda to use Renault power units from 2018.

The move has been seen as key in convincing Alonso to extend his stay at McLaren beyond his current contract, but the two-time world champion says he has no information about the French manufacturer's prospects yet.

"I don't have data about what Renault expects and the improvements it has planned for next year," said Alonso.

"So after this race I'll try to find out and get in touch with them to know more about their plans and from there make a decision.

"You never know if it's the good move or the bad move for the team, but if McLaren thought that it was time to split with Honda and go for Renault is because they have good information about next year.

"Hopefully that puts McLaren again in the places that all feel McLaren belongs, which is fighting for podiums and championships."
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:53 PM   #724
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Somehow Vettle got pole after a lousy practice sessions:




1.Sebastian Vettel GER Scuderia Ferrari 1m 39.491s

2.Max Verstappen NED Red Bull Racing-TAG Heuer 1m 39.814s

3.Daniel Ricciardo AUS Red Bull Racing-TAG Heuer 1m 39.840s

4.Kimi Raikkonen FIN Scuderia Ferrari 1m 40.069s

5.Lewis Hamilton GBR Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport 1m 40.126s

6.Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport 1m 40.810s

7.Nico Hulkenberg GER Renault Sport F1 1m 41.013s

8.Fernando Alonso ESP McLaren-Honda 1m 41.179s

9.Stoffel Vandoorne BEL McLaren-Honda 1m 41.398s

10.Carlos Sainz SPA Scuderia Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 42.056s

Q2

11.Jolyon Palmer GBR Renault Sport F1 1m 42.107s

12.Sergio Perez MEX Sahara Force India-Mercedes 1m 42.246s

13.Daniil Kvyat RUS Scuderia Toro Rosso-Renault 1m 42.338s

14.Esteban Ocon FRA Sahara Force India-Mercedes 1m 42.760s

15.Romain Grosjean FRA Haas-Ferrari 1m 43.883s

Q1

16.Kevin Magnussen DEN Haas-Ferrari 1m 43.756s

17.Felipe Massa BRA Williams Martini Racing-Mercedes 1m 44.014s

18.Lance Stroll CAN Williams Martini Racing-Mercedes 1m 44.728s

19.Pascal Wehrlein GER Sauber-Ferrari 1m 45.059s

20.Marcus Ericsson SWE Sauber-Ferrari 1m 45.570s

Seems that Mercedes powered cars don't like this track.
7 out of 8 pole sitters won the Singapore GP.
Hamilton got pole and blew his gearbox while in the lead.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:05 AM   #725
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Singapore being a tighter circuit and the differences in wheelbase.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/f...ercedes-i.html
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