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Old 09-06-2017, 02:05 PM   #1
teewrxx
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Default COBB OTS/ E-Tune/ Pro tune

Im planning to get a Cobb AP, I currently have a Invidia N1 CBE, and am planning to go stage 2 but with an Invidia catless DP.

My question is, is it better to use Cobb parts and go stage 2 since everything will be compatible (ive read that using an invidia DP for example isn't "optimal" when using a cobb OTS stage 2 map) with the Cobb OTS maps? Someone told me it's better to go that route because if you ever decide to upgrage further, you just buy the part and flash, versus getting it pro-tuned again. ALso for those who run the AP and have a protune, is it kind of a "waste" having the AP but only being able to run just the pro-tuned map or an e-tuned map? Or is there absolutely nothing wrong with getting an AP, getting a protune, and just running that protune until kingdom comes?

Hopefully i'm making sense here, i'm just trying to go stage 2 but not sure which way to go, Cobb OTS w/ cobb parts, E tune with Invidia DP, Pro tune with Invidia DP.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:12 PM   #2
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You don't need to use Cobb parts, but you need to follow their specifications to the letter.....like diameter and/or catted vs. catless. Will you be leaving .000045HP on the table vs. using Cobb's stuff? Yep. Will it really, really matter? Nope.

You can get a protune or e-tune, then put the AccessPORT in the garage. Mine's been in there for years.

Buy whatever parts you like. Used is fine for most stuff to save money. Then get a e-tune from a trusted LONG term tuner like this idgit: http://www.clarkturnertuning.com/. He's been tuning since Nixon was in office and has tuned me once or thrice. In fact, I drove 6 hours one way to have him custom tune me in person. Beware of the $99 e-tuners. Do not beware of the long term, pricier tuners. Do not beware of an in-person protune. My bet is on Clark doe....he good peoples.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:42 PM   #3
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Thank you Unabomber, do you think i'll be ok with just an E-tune? When do you suggest one should go for a protune? Besides having the money lol.
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:24 PM   #4
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Chiming in since you live in Socal.

Big thing to consider with the Cobb AP is what are going to be your long term plans with smog checks. AP is handy since you can set it back to stock yourself when its smog time. If you have ways to get around that, then it would be cheaper to just get a tune without an AP and run it like that (but need to see a tuner to un-tune the car for whatever reason).

Ive ran stage 2 OTS with only a invidia downpipe both catted and catless with no problems on my 07 wrx. But like UB said, "you need to follow their specifications to the letter". Modding your car will always be a gamble.

And since you live in socal, there are many reputable tuners in many areas, so start looking through the SCIC section for that, as well as new or used parts from other users.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Im planning to get a Cobb AP, I currently have a Invidia N1 CBE, and am planning to go stage 2 but with an Invidia catless DP.

My question is, is it better to use Cobb parts and go stage 2 since everything will be compatible (ive read that using an invidia DP for example isn't "optimal" when using a cobb OTS stage 2 map) with the Cobb OTS maps? Someone told me it's better to go that route because if you ever decide to upgrage further, you just buy the part and flash, versus getting it pro-tuned again. ALso for those who run the AP and have a protune, is it kind of a "waste" having the AP but only being able to run just the pro-tuned map or an e-tuned map? Or is there absolutely nothing wrong with getting an AP, getting a protune, and just running that protune until kingdom comes?

Hopefully i'm making sense here, i'm just trying to go stage 2 but not sure which way to go, Cobb OTS w/ cobb parts, E tune with Invidia DP, Pro tune with Invidia DP.
COBB usually does not have OTS maps for catless systems, that shouldn't be an option for you.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:51 PM   #6
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Get the Invidia catless DP and a protune. Boom. You're as safe and as quick as can be, and you spent the chunk of cash paying a professional to tune your car instead of on a catalytic converter.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobradaddy View Post
COBB usually does not have OTS maps for catless systems, that shouldn't be an option for you.
Maybe not newer years, but older models it's not a problem
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:24 PM   #8
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With how free flowing CATs are nowadays there really isn't a reason to not run one; and the added bonus that they keep your exhaust from smelling so bad.
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:07 PM   #9
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OP, not sure if boost creep is still an issue with catless. Check with your pro-tuner before you buy.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P43 View Post
Chiming in since you live in Socal.

Big thing to consider with the Cobb AP is what are going to be your long term plans with smog checks. AP is handy since you can set it back to stock yourself when its smog time. If you have ways to get around that, then it would be cheaper to just get a tune without an AP and run it like that (but need to see a tuner to un-tune the car for whatever reason).

Ive ran stage 2 OTS with only a invidia downpipe both catted and catless with no problems on my 07 wrx. But like UB said, "you need to follow their specifications to the letter". Modding your car will always be a gamble.

And since you live in socal, there are many reputable tuners in many areas, so start looking through the SCIC section for that, as well as new or used parts from other users.
My long term for smog checks is literally replacing the invidia DP with the stock every two years ahahaha. Im also looking to get Clark Turners pro tune and will not use any of COBBs OTS maps. My quest is, as long as I have my stock map on the COBB AP, I can just flash back to that during smog time correct? Even if I have upgraded fuel pump and spark plugs?
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
Get the Invidia catless DP and a protune. Boom. You're as safe and as quick as can be, and you spent the chunk of cash paying a professional to tune your car instead of on a catalytic converter.
Clark is recommending an upgraded fuel pump and spark plugs, will my stock injectors be ok? or will they be running at really high IDC's? Someone told me that i would be maxing them out with my future stage 2 set up (invidia turbo back, walbro fuel pump, NGK spark plugs, and pro tune)
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
OP, not sure if boost creep is still an issue with catless. Check with your pro-tuner before you buy.
Thank you fredrik, If i'm not mistaken, i do believe that it's still an issue and it all lies in the tune to correct it?
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Clark is recommending an upgraded fuel pump and spark plugs, will my stock injectors be ok? or will they be running at really high IDC's? Someone told me that i would be maxing them out with my future stage 2 set up (invidia turbo back, walbro fuel pump, NGK spark plugs, and pro tune)

Clark is on point. They will both be necessary. I'm on my phone so I can't see your profile info... if the car is 06+ injectors will be ok for this job. They'll get maxed but it's not the end of the world. Clark is the man he'll take care of you. This would be a good time to ask him about E85, TGV's, or other exhaust parts though.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
Clark is on point. They will both be necessary. I'm on my phone so I can't see your profile info... if the car is 06+ injectors will be ok for this job. They'll get maxed but it's not the end of the world. Clark is the man he'll take care of you. This would be a good time to ask him about E85, TGV's, or other exhaust parts though.
Yeah im 2013 WRX hatchback. Thank you for your input YNRY. I'll definitely ask him, sucks he doesn't have a clone, emails come in every other day sometimes every 2 days. Busy man for sure.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Thank you fredrik, If i'm not mistaken, i do believe that it's still an issue and it all lies in the tune to correct it?
Boost creep is a mechanical issue resulting from a lack of back pressure from a catless setup and temperatures under 40*F, boost can rise uncontrollably in the higher rpms ranges. It is a purely mechanical issue that cannot be tuned out.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Boost creep is a mechanical issue resulting from a lack of back pressure from a catless setup and temperatures under 40*F, boost can rise uncontrollably in the higher rpms ranges. It is a purely mechanical issue that cannot be tuned out.

This is mostly wrong... OP that is a mechanical failure. It's not caused by going catless. But you're car will not correct your mistakes after this change. Just never wot until you hit peak boost after 3rd gear.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
This is mostly wrong... OP that is a mechanical failure. It's not caused by going catless. But you're car will not correct your mistakes after this change. Just never wot until you hit peak boost after 3rd gear.
I mean so no matter what, no WOT until after peak boost after 3rd on catless or catted DP?
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Boost creep is a mechanical issue resulting from a lack of back pressure from a catless setup and temperatures under 40*F, boost can rise uncontrollably in the higher rpms ranges. It is a purely mechanical issue that cannot be tuned out.
Welp, l already have my catless DP on its way
There's a return policy though haha.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:04 PM   #19
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This is mostly wrong... OP that is a mechanical failure. It's not caused by going catless. But you're car will not correct your mistakes after this change. Just never wot until you hit peak boost after 3rd gear.
Explain this. How is OP supposed to hit peak boost before going WOT?

But totally, I'm sure you are much more knowledgeable about boost creep than respected Subaru tuners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatBotti
Running a catless downpipe can cause boost creep in cold temperatures. Boost creep is when the boost uncontrollably rises at high rpm. Boost creep can NOT be tuned out, it is a mechanical issue from running a catless exhaust. You can see in the picture below that the boost line with the catless exhaust rises uncontrollably after 5000rpm. This boost creep is typically only seen with a catless exhaust + intakes in temperatures below 40*.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Explain this. How is OP supposed to hit peak boost before going WOT?

But totally, I'm sure you are much more knowledgeable about boost creep than respected Subaru tuners.

You don't have to be angry dude. When OP gets his dyno sheet he'll see at which rpm his car makes peak boost. Good practice not to wot before that rpm after 3rd in the 5 speed (don't lug the engine). You'll overboost, which you couldn't really do before the downpipe, which most people mistake for boost creep because it has a catchy name.

Only time I've seen actual boost creep in these cars is if the wastegate fails to open or when they start hitting 5k rpm in fifth/six in wrx/sti.

Op please let us know if you'll be taking your car over 120 mph. In that case get an ewg if you're not grabbing another turbo/engine build.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
You don't have to be angry dude. When OP gets his dyno sheet he'll see at which rpm his car makes peak boost. Good practice not to wot before that rpm after 3rd in the 5 speed (don't lug the engine). You'll overboost, which you couldn't really do before the downpipe, which most people mistake for boost creep because it has a catchy name.

Only time I've seen actual boost creep in these cars is if the wastegate fails to open or when they start hitting 5k rpm in fifth/six in wrx/sti.

Op please let us know if you'll be taking your car over 120 mph. In that case get an ewg if you're not grabbing another turbo/engine build.
What in the **** are you talking about? Turbos hold bost, you don't hit peak boost for 1rpm and then drop down again right away. Maybe you have a tapered boost towards higher rpms, but just because your car spools at xrpm on this run when you go WOT at 2Krpm doesn't mean it's unsafe to WOT before that. That makes zero sense. If you car is tuned correctly, hitting WOT whenever shouldn't be a problem. If your car has problems overboosting if you WOT past a certain RPM then you need to look at your tuner, that's a tuning problem and is NOT boost creep.

But please, I'm interested to hear which part of my original explanation was wrong.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
What in the **** are you talking about? Turbos hold bost, you don't hit peak boost for 1rpm and then drop down again right away. Maybe you have a tapered boost towards higher rpms, but just because your car spools at xrpm on this run when you go WOT at 2Krpm doesn't mean it's unsafe to WOT before that. That makes zero sense. If you car is tuned correctly, hitting WOT whenever shouldn't be a problem. If your car has problems overboosting if you WOT past a certain RPM then you need to look at your tuner, that's a tuning problem and is NOT boost creep.

But please, I'm interested to hear which part of my original explanation was wrong.

You drunk rn?
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
You drunk rn?
You're the one saying that if he looks at his Dyno Plot, that he can determine where he hit peak boost on that run and therefore not go WOT before that. Because if he does got WOT he might overboost. You also said going WOT before that rpm in 3rd is lugging the engine, you have no idea what that rpm is so no idea if he's lugging the engine.

This makes zero sense.

Again, how was my first response mostly wrong.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
You don't have to be angry dude. When OP gets his dyno sheet he'll see at which rpm his car makes peak boost. Good practice not to wot before that rpm after 3rd in the 5 speed (don't lug the engine).
You should have specified that you meant that RPM in your other post, I was confused as to what you meant also. The way you worded it made it seem like you were saying not to go WOT until AFTER you hit peak boost (i.e. once your boost gauge reads 20psi or whatever it's tuned to) which is literally impossible since the throttle position controls how much you're boosting.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:12 PM   #25
fredrik94087
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didnt mean to throw a wrench in the discussion.

I have read about boost creep from only those who have gone catless, and I have seen it on my own catted jpipe when running wastegate only (zero additional boost). Otherwise, my catted is fine and holds boost.

Yes, any tuner may tune out some boost at some rpm range to negate the issue if one exists. Is it possibly better to run catted and not have that potential issue nor the foul smell?

Here's a link I found with google search.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1180628

Last edited by fredrik94087; 09-13-2017 at 11:23 PM.
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