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Old 12-26-2019, 07:21 AM   #1
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Default Nikola Motors Claims “Holy Grail of Batteries” Doubles Range, Halves Price

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https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/201...-halves-price/


Nikola Motors Claims “Holy Grail of Batteries” Doubles Range, Halves Price
Few details are available and there are plenty of skeptics.
by Paul A. Eisenstein | Dec 23, 2019



The new batteries could deliver up to 800 miles per charge in the Nikola One semi, the company claims.

Range and cost are two of the biggest hurdles faced by proponents of battery-electric vehicles, but a Phoenix-based truck company start-up claims it has developed “the Holy Grail of batteries,” a new technology that can pack about twice as much energy into a given mass while also halving the price compared to today’s lithium-ion technology.

The purported breakthrough comes as something of a surprise considering the source, Nikola Motor Co. first gaining attention with its plan to roll out a series of trucks replacing conventional diesel engines with hydrogen fuel cells.
The new batteries would offer similar range, as much as 800 miles on a charge, only slightly less than what a modern truck can manage on a tank of diesel. But the announcement has sparked a fair bit of skepticism.

“This is the biggest advancement we have seen in the battery world,” said Trevor Milton, founder and chief executive of Nikola. “We are not talking about small improvements; we are talking about doubling your cell phone battery capacity. We are talking about doubling the range of BEVs and hydrogen-electric vehicles around the world.”

Nikola’s CEO indicated the new batteries were acquired through a start-up it is in the process of acquiring and it will move to commercializing the technology once the deal is completed. It plans to demonstrate the batteries next autumn during an annual event, dubbed Nikola World.

Nikola had been focusing on the use of hydrogen to power its trucks.
Officials offered only vague details about the new technology but indicated it is not the same as the solid-state batteries many others, including Toyota, have been chasing.

It appears the key to the battery is removing the binder material and electric current collectors used in today’s lithium-ion cells. That would reduce not only size and weight, Milton claimed, but also make the new batteries “more conductive,” translating into faster charging times.

(VW running into major software problems with new ID.3 battery-electric vehicle.)
If used in a Class 8 semi, Nikola claims:
· Its vehicles could get travel 800 miles between charges and then quickly recharge;
· The battery pack could be downsized to add an additional 5,000 pounds of cargo;
· The batteries would weigh 40% less than a lithium-ion cell yet hold as much energy

· Pricing would come down 50%. With the best of today’s batteries believed to be in the $100 to $120 range, that would mean as little as $50 to $60 per kilowatt-hour.

If the new technology proves valid it could cause a major shake-up in the battery industry. Tesla might have to completely redesign its Gigafactory, for one thing.

Nikola also claims that preliminary testing shows the batteries can withstand 2,000 charge and discharge cycles, or twice the current industry standard for motor vehicles. If that were to prove valid in real would applications it would suggest a truck could clock over 1.5 million miles before needing to replace the pack.

(Lucid starts taking orders for new Lucid Air battery-car.)
If Nikola can get the batteries into production it could gain a leg up on one of its biggest potential rivals, Tesla, which is developing its own EV truck using batteries from its Gigafactory. They are expected to deliver about 500 miles of range.

The Nikola technology would have application to passenger vehicles, as well, claimed Milton, suggesting that the size of a current battery could be halved – or range could be doubled. If that proved accurate, a product like the Tesla Model S with its longest-range battery pack could get somewhere north of 700 miles per charge.

“We have the Holy Grail of batteries,” Nikola’s CEO claimed. “You are talking about making electric vehicles at an affordable price point.”
(Fisker Ocean set to make its formal debut at next month’s Consumer Electronics Show.)

Nikola’s CEO says the new batteries could yield 600-800 miles range in a passenger vehicle.

Not everyone buys in on Nikola’s claim and, at best, it is likely to take several years to commercialize the new battery, according to tech consultancy ABI Research.

But there is little doubt such a breakthrough would be welcomed. The Boston Consulting Group has estimated that batteries need to come down to $70 or less per kWh for the price of an all-electric vehicle to reach parity with today’s gas and diesel models.

Much of the industry’s focus has been on solid-state batteries that essentially replace the chemical slurry in lithium-ion batteries with a ceramic material. But other research has focused on improving today’s batteries in some of the ways Nikola says its new technology has achieved.

Such breakthroughs, if put into production, would pose challenges to existing battery manufacturing operations, such as the $5 billion Tesla Gigafactory in Reno, Nevada, likely requiring massive and costly tear-ups.
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Old 12-26-2019, 07:48 AM   #2
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Add me on the list as skeptical too.
Double the power density under the same package for half the price and we have heard nothing of this ?
To me it sounds like Nikola is looking for a cash influx.

Do hope this is true though. This could change everything. The world!
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:07 AM   #3
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keep hearing battery claims like this and bogus methinks. Been hearing so many EV bogus claims since the 80s
If such a battery exists you will see it on high profit cell phones and your phone will charge in 3min and last 3-5 days

Last edited by Masterauto; 12-30-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:19 AM   #4
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File this one under “I’ll believe when I see it.”
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Old 12-28-2019, 07:37 AM   #5
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same.
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:38 AM   #6
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Cash grab? Safety is a variable in the consumer market world and this sounds like a pipe dream setup many others have failed at safely implementing.
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Old 12-28-2019, 12:42 PM   #7
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Cash grab? Safety is a variable in the consumer market world and this sounds like a pipe dream setup many others have failed at safely implementing.
Eh, I don’t think they made this announcement for a cash grab. There is so much money in the private equity markets that all they need to do is politely ask and likely receive, it’s crazy. It’s nothing more than attention seeking and probably trying to give Tesla a little kick down on stock price or simply bored ****etry. I’d be damn surprised if Nikola actually has a vehicle that makes it to production for the mass market.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:28 PM   #8
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So Nikola is merging.

https://nikolamotor.com/press_releas...combination-77

It will be interesting to see if they can overcome all the production/tech hurdles and actually produce something the public wants and can afford. I gotta say their render of their pickup looks great and the specs don't suck either.

https://nikolamotor.com/badger
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:20 PM   #9
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Been hearing this since 80s. If true big game changer but think they need money and just want to fan their stock up. MALARKEY
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
So Nikola is merging.

https://nikolamotor.com/press_releas...combination-77

It will be interesting to see if they can overcome all the production/tech hurdles and actually produce something the public wants and can afford. I gotta say their render of their pickup looks great and the specs don't suck either.

https://nikolamotor.com/badger
There is a large sentiment that this company is bogus. Their claims seem way too good to be true.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:29 PM   #11
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There is a large sentiment that this company is bogus. Their claims seem way too good to be true.
YouTube
Agreed. I did watch some Youtube interviews with the founder. He claims that the Iveco partner plant in Germany already has trucks (semis) made. <shrug) I also did see some videos of a PR event with the semi's running around a parking lot....so at least there's something tangible ....possibly. Don't know if I'd buy this company's stock after listening to him. He seems intent on killing ICE cars; which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but he seems like he's willing to give away his claimed company tech to others to make that happen. As a shareholder I'd not want that.
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
Agreed. I did watch some Youtube interviews with the founder. He claims that the Iveco partner plant in Germany already has trucks (semis) made. <shrug) I also did see some videos of a PR event with the semi's running around a parking lot....so at least there's something tangible ....possibly. Don't know if I'd buy this company's stock after listening to him. He seems intent on killing ICE cars; which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but he seems like he's willing to give away his claimed company tech to others to make that happen. As a shareholder I'd not want that.
So wait, the Chinese don’t have to hack to steal IP? Freakin’ smart cyber security protection controls right there. Genius I tell ya. Genius!
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:38 PM   #13
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So wait, the Chinese don’t have to hack to steal IP? Freakin’ smart cyber security protection controls right there. Genius I tell ya. Genius!
Why hack when we literally give them the **** to build?
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:38 PM   #14
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Why hack when we literally give them the **** to build?
True, this is why you can buy CISCO switches and Routers... Replaceable Apple screens, batteries, etc all on ebay for 1/10th the price.
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:55 AM   #15
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Received an email last night from Nikola motors . It was in invite to make a preorder reservation for the Badger. They're offering a down payment match up to $5k. Monday is when preorders start opening up.
I didn't see any info. on pricing.

I gotta say the renders look awesome. In fact their website reminds me of the Traxxas rc website. Going to be stupid expensive I suspect...even more-so than the Rivian.



Last edited by legacy_etu; 06-29-2020 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by legacy_etu View Post
Received an email last night from Nikola motors . It was in invite to make a preorder reservation for the Badger. They're offering a down payment match up to $5k. Monday is when preorders start opening up.
I didn't see any info. on pricing.

I gotta say the renders look awesome. In fact their website reminds me of the Traxxas rc website. Going to be stupid expensive I suspect...even more-so than the Rivian.


That just looks money right there. Price will be high, then offers of 84/96 month financing will follow.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:30 PM   #17
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First off, preorder culture needs to die. I get why companies like it, but I think consumers need to realize it's anti-consumer and keep it in their pants, despite REALLY wanting to be that cool bleeding edge buyer.

Second off, who TF makes preorders on vehicles and pays a down-payment without any info on the final price? Are they expecting that only people with #$*& you money to entertain the idea I guess?
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:50 PM   #18
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vaporware
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:17 PM   #19
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Until they make an actual product, with an estimated price and estimated delivery timeframe; they can save those renders onto an external drive and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

It's real easy to make a render, but 1's and 0's on a screen don't equate to a truck, nor will they get me to cough up money for a "pre-order" (which is at best an interest free loan to the company, or money that lines someones pockets when they declare bankruptcy).

Maybe if they were some niche automaker and had a vehicle out that was already good, but didn't have the cash to make another vehicle without some influx and weren't a public company and didn't want to go public, then I'd be more willing to pre-order something, but I'd still need numbers instead of dumping money into a hole that may never be filled.

They've been around since 2014, don't have a mule yet... Please; and somehow they've stumbled on battery tech that puts existing stuff to shame in that short period of time? yeah, sure. To anybody who believes that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, cash only, it's a great deal; I'm also taking pre-orders for other bridges in the area; just getting out of the bridge and tunnel game, you know what I mean.
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:23 PM   #20
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Is that truck bed about the size of full sized pickup trucks? Seems proportionately small?
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:36 PM   #21
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Agree with everyone about this preorder business. Such a joke. I signed up to receive info to keep abreast of what they’re doing. Needless to say I was shocked that they’re opening preorders to people and offering absolutely no info on delivery times or pricing Curious to see how many fools sign up for that.
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:42 PM   #22
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Is that truck bed about the size of full sized pickup trucks? Seems proportionately small?
looks like a 5.5' or 6' bed, but it's a render, so take it with all the grains of salt the internet has to offer
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:55 PM   #23
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Isn't this the company where their high valuation is pretty much based on the number of preorders, and also anyone can preorder multiple semis with zero deposit? At least now they're asking for deposits...
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:18 PM   #24
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vaporware
lots of Tesla investors want to short Nikola but it cost a ton right now because there is not a lot of shares available. I wanted to buy puts also but again they are crazy expensive and they don't move at all even if the stock goes down .
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:38 PM   #25
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Until they make an actual product, with an estimated price and estimated delivery timeframe; they can save those renders onto an external drive and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

It's real easy to make a render, but 1's and 0's on a screen don't equate to a truck, nor will they get me to cough up money for a "pre-order" (which is at best an interest free loan to the company, or money that lines someones pockets when they declare bankruptcy).

Maybe if they were some niche automaker and had a vehicle out that was already good, but didn't have the cash to make another vehicle without some influx and weren't a public company and didn't want to go public, then I'd be more willing to pre-order something, but I'd still need numbers instead of dumping money into a hole that may never be filled.

They've been around since 2014, don't have a mule yet... Please; and somehow they've stumbled on battery tech that puts existing stuff to shame in that short period of time? yeah, sure. To anybody who believes that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, cash only, it's a great deal; I'm also taking pre-orders for other bridges in the area; just getting out of the bridge and tunnel game, you know what I mean.
But they photoshopped a Dodge Ram. Do you know how hard that is?
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