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Old 06-29-2020, 02:03 PM   #176
oichan
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I'm not much of a vert guy to begin with and the Z4's shape is really not my thing, but good to hear the Bimmer guys got what they wanted and car guys like me got what we wanted.

First thing I liked when I got in the car was how compact the car is.. fits like a glove. And while some folks were crying about blind spots, the view is perfectly fine for me.. especially after driving a 370Z for like 8-9yrs I know what blind spots are. The Supra is so much easier to see out and drive... and FAST!

Looking forward to what Nissan brings out for their 2 seater (400Z)..
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:22 PM   #177
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I'm not much of a vert guy to begin with and the Z4's shape is really not my thing, but good to hear the Bimmer guys got what they wanted and car guys like me got what we wanted.

First thing I liked when I got in the car was how compact the car is.. fits like a glove. And while some folks were crying about blind spots, the view is perfectly fine for me.. especially after driving a 370Z for like 8-9yrs I know what blind spots are. The Supra is so much easier to see out and drive... and FAST!

Looking forward to what Nissan brings out for their 2 seater (400Z)..
Ya the Nissan Z's have always been a head turner for me....from the "Datsuns" and 280Zx's in the 80's on up and reliable engines too, I think their designs have been innovative in every gen. Their V6 is really good.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:26 PM   #178
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Looking forward to what Nissan brings out for their 2 seater (400Z)..
As a Supra competitor, have you driven the Infiniti Q60 Red Sport 400 yet? It's super fat compared to the Z and Supra tho.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:59 PM   #179
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I have.. actually. Q50, Q60 and their RS variants. They do feel very big because they are.

I hope the 400Z is a lot smaller then that. The 370Z was pretty much the same size as my Supra, I think. Short wheel base and lots of power is key for fun. 370Z did not have enough power for me.

If large is okay, I'd be looking at a C8 Z51 next.. but they are like the length of my STI/WRX.. much too big for a 2 seater for me.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:27 PM   #180
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v12 has so much more complexity I'm not sure it's worth it... unless someone can give me reliable v12 examples
Basically every Lambo, Ferrari, Bentley, MB/AMG (Aston & Maybach), BMW in the past 20 years. MB/AMG need some BS preventative things but for the power of the V12TT, worth it.

My current daily is an 18 year old V12 Ferrari.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:54 AM   #181
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My current daily is a pair of jeans and t-shirt.
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Old 06-30-2020, 10:55 AM   #182
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I was comparing specs of the early Diablos to the LFA and the performance numbers are very close.....Diablo was a BIG car though as far as supercars go....the LFA more toward a luxury philosophy and the Diablo being a raw, feel everything street rocket. Fun fact; the early diablo used Nissan 300ZX headlights, that actually retained the Nissan lettering, and Lamborghini simply designed a carbon fiber overlay to cover the lettering.
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Old 06-30-2020, 11:17 AM   #183
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also none of the cars in that 1993 car and driver shootout are fetching 6 figure prices now except for the 2JZ twin turbo supra. Food for thought.

The incorporation of BMWs 380+ horsepower 6, into the supra*, means that the "gentelmans agreement" to keep horsepower levels these cars in the low 300's that started in the early 90's with the cars in that shootout, is basically over. Seems to me that this will start a horsepower war in the Japanese U.S sports car market segment, especially since the U.S counterparts are all over 500+ horsepower now with no end in sight. When you have base Camaro LT1's with over 500 horsepower, quarter mile in 11's and 190 MPH top speed starting at $36,000, an antiquated "gentelmans agreement" to keep horsepower levels the same in the low 300's is just dumb. Let it rip bring on the 400++ horsepower STI's!!! I'm thinking the 2.4 Ascent engine in the STI can be prepped for 415-420 at the crank no problem with a warranty from the factory.

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Old 06-30-2020, 11:53 AM   #184
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My current daily is a pair of jeans and t-shirt.
Same.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:06 PM   #185
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I’m covered in masks.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:59 PM   #186
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I put on a collared shirt today for the first time in a long time because I had a video conference; didn't bother with pants though.
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:30 PM   #187
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:01 PM   #188
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Gets in an S209, and someone asks how does the handeling compare to a supra*...and he says..."what's a supra*?" LOL
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:13 PM   #189
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I’m covered in masks.
I've not set foot in my office at work since mid-March. Probably won't until after Labor Day..
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:15 PM   #190
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also none of the cars in that 1993 car and driver shootout are fetching 6 figure prices now except for the 2JZ twin turbo supra. Food for thought.
Common sense considering competitors at that time were vastly outselling the Supra. If they built as many Supra TT's as they did 300ZX TT's I doubt they would be fetching close to 6 figures.
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:48 PM   #191
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I think Toyota is going to regret using the Z4 platform for the supra*...after that handeling dissertation from Apex, and a quick search of these things crashing from the rear end unexpectedly breaking loose.

I think we have a car that could potentially dethrone the mustang as the "oh ***** its heading straight for the crowd" king of car show exits.

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Old 06-30-2020, 04:03 PM   #192
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FFS man let it go. Par the course for the segment. Besides, trying to find the car you own that didn’t suffer the same fate is getting damn near impossible. Same goes for used BRZs. Should Toyota have passed on Subaru for the same reasons?
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:05 PM   #193
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Common sense considering competitors at that time were vastly outselling the Supra. If they built as many Supra TT's as they did 300ZX TT's I doubt they would be fetching close to 6 figures.
of course, exclusivity is part of it, but the 968 in the U.S for that gen were only 4600+ produced and the Supra Twin turbo was close to 8000 in the U.S for the 90's. The 968 in #1 condition is $60,000. The 2JZ twin turbo Supra is $100,000+

The 2JZ Twin Turbo is simply a special car, that was ahead of its time in styling and performance and reliability. Its relatively low production run is part of the collectability but the engineering design, performance, styling, and reliability for its time are even greater influences
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:33 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
also none of the cars in that 1993 car and driver shootout are fetching 6 figure prices now except for the 2JZ twin turbo supra. Food for thought.

The incorporation of BMWs 380+ horsepower 6, into the supra*, means that the "gentelmans agreement" to keep horsepower levels these cars in the low 300's that started in the early 90's with the cars in that shootout, is basically over. Seems to me that this will start a horsepower war in the Japanese U.S sports car market segment, especially since the U.S counterparts are all over 500+ horsepower now with no end in sight. When you have base Camaro LT1's with over 500 horsepower, quarter mile in 11's and 190 MPH top speed starting at $36,000, an antiquated "gentelmans agreement" to keep horsepower levels the same in the low 300's is just dumb. Let it rip bring on the 400++ horsepower STI's!!! I'm thinking the 2.4 Ascent engine in the STI can be prepped for 415-420 at the crank no problem with a warranty from the factory.
None of them were hero cars in F&F, either.


And the "gentleman's agreement" died almost 20 years ago.
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Old 06-30-2020, 04:58 PM   #195
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of course, exclusivity is part of it, but the 968 in the U.S for that gen were only 4600+ produced and the Supra Twin turbo was close to 8000 in the U.S for the 90's. The 968 in #1 condition is $60,000. The 2JZ twin turbo Supra is $100,000+

The 2JZ Twin Turbo is simply a special car, that was ahead of its time in styling and performance and reliability. Its relatively low production run is part of the collectability but the engineering design, performance, styling, and reliability for its time are even greater influences
The NSX was a special car that was ahead of its time and the Supra doesn't even come close. The Supra had a special engine but the rest of the car is not that special. The styling doesn't hold up to better looking cars of the era. We get it that you hate BMW but you are really trying way too hard here as nobody is buying anything you are selling much like you sitting in a 1994 Supra in the showroom when you were diapers.
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Old 06-30-2020, 06:29 PM   #196
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The NSX was a special car that was ahead of its time and the Supra doesn't even come close. The Supra had a special engine but the rest of the car is not that special. The styling doesn't hold up to better looking cars of the era. We get it that you hate BMW but you are really trying way too hard here as nobody is buying anything you are selling much like you sitting in a 1994 Supra in the showroom when you were diapers.
Nah, like I said, I sat in the brand new 93 supra twin turbo at the international auto show in boston when they came out...it was HAILED for its interior wrap around design and the aero styling with the wing etc....and the performance was very very good for the era, and for those reasons it was called by many as a world beater in its class. Just because there were other cars that stood out in the 90's doesnt take any of that away from the real supras.

I dont hate BMW, I actually used to sell them , I just think it wont be a good move for Toyota long term to have used the Z4 and rebadged it as a Supra*, but we'll find that out as time goes by.

and I had already had my drivers license when the real supra came out..I knew it was a special car when I sat in it...couldn't afford it at the time, but turns out I was right LOL.

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Old 06-30-2020, 07:42 PM   #197
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If we're talking cars from that era that have absolutely skyrocketed in value, don't forget 911 RS America and the '93 Cobra.

A 911 RS America was about $10k more than a Supra TT ($5k more than 968 - who would buy a 968?). The RS and Supra had identical straight line performance but in the twisties and stoppies a lightweight 911 is difficult to contend with.

'93 Cobra was not that quick, but they managed to become a cult classic and fetch some serious money considering it was a $20k car.

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In 1993 Car and Driver had an exceptional shootout of the cars the were in the Supra's class. They had a Corvette 4oth anniversary, A Mitsu 300GT VR4, a Mazda RX7 , a 300ZX and A Porsche 968.

The Porsche came in last in the performance and was the most expensive, the 300ZX was the runner up and the Supra came in first place with them declaring the car a world beater. It ran 13.8 in the 1/4 and 5.2 0-60 with 320 horsepower. They raved about everything the car could do...and the styling, and it wasn't the most expensive car of the bunch either
Something odd with that C4 since LT1 F-bodies ran [email protected] and LT1 C4's typically run mid 13's @ 103-106. Oh, and their verdict on the Vette. Only something a C4 could muster

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THE VERDICT: Perhaps a bad sample, but getting old anyway.
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