|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-28-2011, 07:45 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
Taller 5th Gear?
Ok, so currently my new Outback has a 5th gear of .871 and a final drive of 4.11. I've spent the last couple of weeks searching the internet for a straightforward answer to my question.
How hard would it be to put the .78 5th gear found in other Subaru trannys? I've found a couple threads (only one on NASIOC was helpful) that even got close to answering my question. A couple did have really great information though. First off, I know I do not need to split the tranny case open to swap out the 5th gear and that it is possible to leave the transmission in (albeit it'll be significantly harder) but possible. Basically, I was wondering if someone that knows their way around Subaru transmissions well enough to give me a rough run down of the process. Most of the threads I read about turned into small arguments about the logic of doing this swap and I'd really rather not talk about why I want to do this. Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
07-28-2011, 08:25 PM | #2 | |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com |
it may be easier and cheaper to just find another 4.11 5mt trans that has a better ratio and swapping the whole thing out
or maybe put taller tires on the car and maybe the reason you want to do this is just really dumb and the end result can be accomplished without all the bs that isnt really important anyway Quote:
s00000000....tell us the whole thing....dont leave out the gory details |
|
07-28-2011, 09:13 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
Hahah, I love you Scotty.
Well, the reason for the 5th gear all started when I was cruising around some back streets about a week ago. Had been drinking a little and decided I wanted a little action. Found a hooker... one thing led to the next.... now I have to drive to out of town (120 miles round trip) twice a week for three months to go to class. It's only an annoyance, but I hate having my revs at 3500 just to go 74 mph. My brother's BH Outback will do 85 @ 3300 and it's quite nice. |
07-28-2011, 11:51 PM | #4 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
^^^ Well why didn't you say that in the first place? We're here to help ya brother!
It can be done in the car, but you'll have one helluva time retorquing the driven shaft nut (50mm) back to 195 lb/ft. I dunno if I'd want to stress the other gears or syncro hub that much. But I suppose if the ramp up to that torque is slow and smooth as it should be, it might not be a problem. After removing the transfer section, you need to unstake and remove the 36mm and 50mm nut on the main and driven shafts. 27mm nut on driven shaft can stay in place. Drive pin out of 5th-R shift fork Slide syncro, fork and 5th gear off main shaft, set aside. Use a puller to remove 5th from driven shaft. Clean everything you see, add some assembly lube for reassembly. Press new 5th back onto driven shaft. preassemble 5th syncro, fork and gear to slide back onto main shaft. Ideally, replace the nuts....or reinstall and torque the main shaft nut to 85-90 lb/ft and driven shaft nut to 195 lb/ft. Restake both nuts Clean up gasket material on mating surfaces and reinstall transfer section with a new gasket (ive used ultra grey here with no issues). shift linkage, drive shaft, refill gear oil. exhaust , etc..... roadtest. Have fun, Jay |
07-29-2011, 05:44 PM | #5 | |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com |
^^^^^^
now that is just too much work.....taller tires is far easier and cheaper in the long run and even swapping the whole trans out would be a far easier affair Quote:
d000000000d....that is either the best or the worst story I've ever seen posted or both |
|
07-29-2011, 11:56 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
Haha, well, maybe I'll just be happy with what I have I suppose. Doesn't sound terribly impossible (not easy though, I'm not saying that).
Now, does anyone know if the .78 gear will literally just slide on to replace the .871? There was mention somewhere of whether or not it would. Oh, and Scotty, don't worry. The hooker is fine. |
07-30-2011, 11:04 AM | #7 | |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK buy Nates beans westcoastroasting.com |
Quote:
I would buy a set of taller tires..... what size tires are on the car now??? |
|
07-30-2011, 01:11 PM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
The .780 gear goes right onto the shaft. There are no funky gotcha's to be concerned with, aside from not mixing up the drive/driven gearset.
I've done this swap with my '96 Brighton, which had a .825 5th ratio. The .780 is (was) much better on the highway for cruising and milage, though with no turbo and a 3.90 final drive, I did find it easy to drift below the most efficient area of the rpm range and need downshifts to make passes. On the other hand, triple digits click off at points where the tach is not screaming at you.... Jay |
07-30-2011, 09:34 PM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
Awesome! Thank you Storm. Very many thanks.
I have no problem with dropping to 4th, around town I hardly even leave it since I never get above 45 and 5th is a pointless shift. I currently have 225/60/16 on the car (per spec). I looked it up and the 225/65 would raise lower the gearing to about 77mph @ 3500 RPM. I'm going to call my indy mechanic and see if they'd be up for the job. I've trusted them for a long while now so I just have to find out if they'd be down. |
07-30-2011, 11:54 PM | #10 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
Doing this with the trans out of the car is close to 1000 times easier. I'll say that much.
good luck, have fun! Jay |
07-31-2011, 10:45 AM | #11 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ |
I personally wouldn't even try this with the gearbox in the car. With a lift, the box is out and on the bench in less than an hour.
|
07-31-2011, 11:07 AM | #12 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 13617
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: MN
Vehicle:2001 Legacy GT back to stock is a project too |
I am going to be selling my 5mt that has a .78 5th gear from an 03-04 Legacy L(its the factory ratios). There are about 40k miles on it(I've only put 10k on it). It is also 4.11 FD. Currently someone local is interested but I can let you know if they end up not buying it.
I guess it depends how much that 5th gear is worth without having to do any work haha. Ben |
07-31-2011, 11:33 AM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
Oh? How much are you parting with it? This might be the better route because then I don't have to play with the synchros or any of the smaller bits.
|
02-03-2013, 01:15 AM | #14 |
n00b Moderator
Moderator Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:2000 RS-Ej20G It tastes like burning |
OP, did you ever follow through? If so, how did it go?
Hey Jay, Real stupid question; how do you "press" the gear on? I am planning to do the same swap on my Ver4 STi Type-R V-Limited 5mt (TY752VB5CA). FD is 4.444 with an 0.825 5th...brutal -Rob |
02-04-2013, 01:02 AM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
^ I ended up putting it on the back burner for a bit. I had school and work too much to work on it. But I've been thinking about it a lot lately and might go ahead and order the gear set with some of my tax return.
Also, what do you do with that kind of gearing? Sheesh! Do you even use all of the gears? |
02-04-2013, 01:23 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ |
Quote:
The only place this really doesn't work is if you want to track the car. Then the 4-5 shift just has way too big rpm drops and takes all the fun out of going to the track with it. |
|
02-04-2013, 09:07 PM | #17 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:96L Most Over- Developed Beater |
With the trans in the car, pressing it on is more like tapping it on with a brass drift, or stacking spacers between the gear and nut, then using the nut to pull it into place. Outside the car and apart, it's a simple push with the shop press.
Jay |
02-05-2013, 12:22 AM | #18 | |||
n00b Moderator
Moderator Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:2000 RS-Ej20G It tastes like burning |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
More stupid questions if you don't mind; 1) Does DCCD complicate things? 2) When adding a ph2 gearset to a ph1 trans, exactly which parts need to be swapped over? |
|||
02-05-2013, 12:11 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ |
Doesn't change where it will run at freeway speeds. If you are referring to using it on the track, it might give you enough, but I would personally run a gearchart before commiting.
|
02-05-2013, 02:12 PM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Ocala, FL
Vehicle:2001 Outback Wagon White |
|
02-05-2013, 02:19 PM | #21 | |
n00b Moderator
Moderator Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:2000 RS-Ej20G It tastes like burning |
Quote:
Reasonable Hwy cruising in 5th is a priority. This 5th gear/FD combo would be essentially the same as the stock RS with the benefit of the rocketship inducing first through fourth. I can't wait -Rob |
|
02-05-2013, 02:21 PM | #22 |
n00b Moderator
Moderator Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:2000 RS-Ej20G It tastes like burning |
Chit! How about first one done WITH FULL PICTURES of the job would earn the suds?
|
02-05-2013, 02:49 PM | #23 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd NF Performance |
I just grabbed a '02 RS 5spd and swapped it into my sisters' '00 Outback 5spd. I told her it won't have as much grunt as before on the highway, but it'll help with fuel mileage some.
Simple |
02-05-2013, 02:52 PM | #24 |
n00b Moderator
Moderator Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:2000 RS-Ej20G It tastes like burning |
Anything to add or comment on Jay's original instructions?
-Rob |
02-08-2013, 08:26 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 104702
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Eastern CT
Vehicle:95 Legacy Green |
I'm very interested in doing the same on my '02 Outback when I pull things out to do a clutch (I will pull out trans if I decide to do this gear swap). It seemed like it was possible without cracking the case open. Where are you buying the gear set? It would be great if you posted some pics of doing this..
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
5th gear or no 5th gear??? | richstage5 | General Community | 38 | 01-14-2011 06:21 PM |
aftermarket taller 5th gear? | jam69007 | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 5 | 05-14-2010 08:16 AM |
Taller 5th gear for 5MT? | BadTrip | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 49 | 06-17-2008 10:09 PM |
Taller 5th gear for 04 FXT 5M? | Seayak | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 13 | 05-03-2006 12:16 AM |
USA STi gets taller 5th and 6th gear | Jude DeMeis | STi Forum Archive | 18 | 03-16-2003 05:42 PM |