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Old 02-14-2010, 03:35 PM   #251
Daishi00
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Originally Posted by JVD View Post
Ugh...

So many members are now going to have nightmares of nerds laughing at a computer monitor because they don't have enough droop on their cheap coils to get the fastest lap time driving to get groceries.
Nice job proving his point
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:22 PM   #252
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Nice job proving his point
Im guessing you attended nerd fest 2010?
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:31 PM   #253
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Its funny how everyone equates that it has to save a fraction of a second to be a legitimate point about a street driven suspension. That's not the point. The original post was a simple point about the benefits of a properly designed suspension. The point WAS NOT that everyone should buy $3k coilovers. For the price of the cheaper coilovers, a nice spring/shock combo can be had to give the same performance and more travel.

Many in here are still just closed minded and only bringing up arguments that make them feel better about what they bought.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:34 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by JMS Landshark View Post
Its funny how everyone equates that it has to save a fraction of a second to be a legitimate point about a street driven suspension. That's not the point. The original post was a simple point about the benefits of a properly designed suspension. The point WAS NOT that everyone should buy $3k coilovers. For the price of the cheaper coilovers, a nice spring/shock combo can be had to give the same performance and more travel.

Many in here are still just closed minded and only bringing up arguments that make them feel better about what they bought.
we get the point, but everytime someone throws out a reason that said point its retarded theyj ust come up with another tangent explaining it further and proving said fact more tardfull.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:31 PM   #255
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No, you don't get the point. If you did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:40 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
America=Idiocracy. Thought=Terrorism.


Didn't you know?
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:43 PM   #257
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Truth!
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:38 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
He does sell the improved ones. Ask me how I know

The following photos by Kyle Crawford:

High dollar AMS droop (stock pickup points)


My no budget droop (Element custom valving, does not add droop that I know of)


I guess you could say Ryan Gates is doing it wrong, but his trophies say that he's doing enough.
I wish I had saved the pic of our car hitting the same spot.

Even on a race car stiff is not always good. You guys should have seen all the cars at Englishtown this past year at the redline time attack. The stiff suspended cars (on really expensive "good" setups and cheap setups) that had little travel were litterally bouncing across the track in a couple of the turns.

Just pointing out that even on race cars, some travel is still good.

Tony
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:44 PM   #259
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What I have learned.

1. Nothing about suspensions.
2. Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:45 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
No, you don't get the point. If you did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
Oh I use my brain for things that matter.

And no im in middle school. I am such an awesome driver that TN gave me my license early. I could have got it a year earlier but they said I needed more droop.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:51 PM   #261
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Does anyone know what the travel range of a stock STI strut is? It would be interesting to compare the travel of BC.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:52 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleiadesSTi View Post
What I have learned.

1. Nothing about suspensions.
2. Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.
So you didn't actually bother to read this thread at all then huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigurd View Post
Oh I use my brain for things that matter.

And no im in middle school. I am such an awesome driver that TN gave me my license early. I could have got it a year earlier but they said I needed more droop.
Proving my point as well. You're doing a great job of it!
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:55 PM   #263
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So you didn't actually bother to read this thread at all then huh?
I wouldn't know where to start believing who or what. I feel lost now.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:02 PM   #264
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read the material presented and read up on suspension. You'll figure it out, but you gotta apply yourself. It's that using the brain part that throws many people off
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:01 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
read the material presented and read up on suspension. You'll figure it out, but you gotta apply yourself. It's that using the brain part that throws many people off
It's not about figuring it out, it's about is the expensive stuff really worth it. We all GET how droop is beneficial, especially on rough surfaces like englishtown and potholed streets. It's the elitist tone that turn discussions like this into crap. This whole crapstorm started when you had to post your opinion of BC coilovers. Sure your coilovers may be better than mine. But at the end of the day, does it warrant the expense? How much prize money have you won on your droop a doop suspension. Let me answer that, same as the rest of us racing classes less than F1, zero. It's fine if you want to make posts explaining suspension, just don't belittle others for their choices which are probably made by factoring budget first and performance second.
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:08 PM   #266
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It's not about figuring it out, it's about is the expensive stuff really worth it. We all GET how droop is beneficial, especially on rough surfaces like englishtown and potholed streets. ... But at the end of the day, does it warrant the expense? It's fine if you want to make posts explaining suspension, just don't belittle others for their choices which are probably made by factoring budget first and performance second.
No, no, no, you're misunderstanding all of us! We're not giving you crap for spending less money, we're giving you crap for not getting the best stuff for your money that you can. In other words, it's cool that you only want to spend a grand on your springs and dampers. Hell, I didn't even spend that much on mine! The issue is that, if you're going to spend a grand, there's better ways to spend a grand than on cheap crap coilovers. The whole point of the many, many threads explaining why cheap crap coilovers are bad is that, to get the coilovers down to the sub-grand level, the designers had to cut a lot of corners to save money. For the same money, you can buy a spring and strut combo that cuts fewer corners and you'll be faster, and likely happier, with it.

Again, we're not trying to say that you have to spend more money (though I can see how the side-discussion in this thread about how much you'd have to spend if you wanted COs would muddy the waters), we're trying to say that, regardless of how much you're going to spend, you should get the best for your money that you can.
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:44 PM   #267
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what do you have for less than a grand? All the spring and strut combos I looked at first were well over a grand and could not be valved for the spring rates I wanted
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:05 PM   #268
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I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:10 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
no you think you did.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:12 PM   #270
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no you think you did.
I can prove both via suspension theory+calculus and via real world results that I did. That's enough to take it out of the realm of "think"
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:27 PM   #271
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I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
yeah, um we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. you can go ahead and ease up on the crap comments too until you've driven my setup.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:28 PM   #272
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I can prove both via suspension theory+calculus and via real world results that I did. That's enough to take it out of the realm of "think"
make it so, skipper
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:28 PM   #273
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yeah, um we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. you can go ahead and ease up on the crap comments too until you've driven my setup.
What's your setup? There's a fair chance I've actually driven it.

You guys keep thinking I'm speaking just from theory. You keep forgetting I've ridden on just about everything and helped more people build suspensions than most shops have.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:45 PM   #274
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element bc 10k/10k
18 clicks from soft f 18 r iirc
whiteline sways
whiteline bjes
3300 lbs w/ driver
2.75 camber f 2 camber r

Do you need tire pyrometer test results or are ya good? they're in my car, but it's cold outside
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:00 AM   #275
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element bc 10k/10k
18 clicks from soft f 18 r iirc
whiteline sways
whiteline bjes
3300 lbs w/ driver
2.75 camber f 2 camber r
What diameter sways? Not that it really matters because I've driven both small and large with BCs on them. I've driven a number of cars with BC's on them and even experimented with them on mine for 2 days last summer (before they were installed into their real home) because I wanted to know what I was talking about.

So, anyway, in a direct apples-to-apples comparison on Bridgestone Potenza RE-01Rs, my setup was substantially more capable. Specifically, the BCs were significantly easier to upset mid-corner by bumps, divots, or changes in surface condition. There were many corners on my 50mi "shakedown" circuit where I couldn't brake as deep or carry as much speed into the corners because the BCs were causing the chassis to become upset and lose adhesion to the road.
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